How long does the effect of MAOI last?

[nolo]

Hello, I did not find this answer, after taking Syrian rue or Caapi, how many hours does it last as an MAOI effect?

That is, how many hours after taking the MAOI can you take the dmt and have it take effect?

Thanks

 

[modern]

The maoi effect tends to last around 4 hours. You usually take the DMT 15-30minutes after taking the maoi and should take effect soon after.

 

[Varallo]

The post above is great. If you want to know more about the literature and the plasma elimination half life, I recommend this article.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358776743_Ayahuasca_as_a_Decoction_Applied_to_Human_Analytical_Methods_Pharmacology_and_Potential_Toxic_Effects#pf10

 

[Sabnock1990]

In total the effects of Harmalas last about 6 to 8 hours, up to about 10 hours with heavier dosages. The MAO-A inhibition in the gut however, is transient and only lasts up to about an hour and a half to two hours into the Harmalas, after that if you try taking DMT it won't be orally active. Ime the best time to take DMT (and some other things) is an hour into the Harmalas, however if you're ingesting some sort of material like Mimosa root powder capsules or mushroom powder capsules, 30 minutes into the Harmalas is ideal, ime, but if you're using DMT in pure form or in tea form or in encapsulated residue form, an hour into the Harmalas is best, an hour apart is also best ime for orally activating Tryptamine from Tryptophan, and for potentiating 4-ACO-DMT. So overall you have about 30 minutes to an hour to get the DMT in ya, any sooner or later than that and the DMT won't be active to full/maximum effect but can still work (though might be shorter in duration of less than 3 hours whereas DMT's full duration should be 4 to 5 hours when taken properly). So take the DMT an hour into the Harmalas/Rue/Caapi, give things another hour to fully kick in and hold on to your butt.

 

[Panpsychic]

In total the effects of Harmalas last about 6 to 8 hours, up to about 10 hours with heavier dosages. The MAO-A inhibition in the gut however, is transient and only lasts up to about an hour and a half to two hours into the Harmalas, after that if you try taking DMT it won't be orally active. Ime the best time to take DMT (and some other things) is an hour into the Harmalas, however if you're ingesting some sort of material like Mimosa root powder capsules or mushroom powder capsules, 30 minutes into the Harmalas is ideal, ime, but if you're using DMT in pure form or in tea form or in encapsulated residue form, an hour into the Harmalas is best, an hour apart is also best ime for orally activating Tryptamine from Tryptophan, and for potentiating 4-ACO-DMT. So overall you have about 30 minutes to an hour to get the DMT in ya, any sooner or later than that and the DMT won't be active to full/maximum effect but can still work (though might be shorter in duration of less than 3 hours whereas DMT's full duration should be 4 to 5 hours when taken properly). So take the DMT an hour into the Harmalas/Rue/Caapi, give things another hour to fully kick in and hold on to your butt.

Yes this matches my experience also, about an hour in for harmala brews before taking the DMT. And there's nothing stopping you from topping up by drinking a bit more harmalas after another hour and a half to two hours either.

 

[modern]

I'm sure there might be some different but my highest caapi harmala dosage of a gram total which is mainly harmaline lasted almost exactly 4 hours. Ive taken 'pharmahausca' and my experience have been similar. I tend to feel the effects of the harmalas within 15-20 minutes. Maybe harmaine and harmaline have different timing?

I've seen people take them together just like they would a brew but I also prefer taking it after harmalas take effect. Maybe feeling effects but I guess not full MAOI yet

 

[Sabnock1990]

Some people are higher or lower in CYP2D6 as well which can influence Harmala dosage and duration, so those higher in CYP2D6 would need more Harmalas and they'd be shorter in duration, those lower in CYP2D6 would need less Harmalas and they'd be longer in duration, those with average CYP2D6 would have the usual dosages/duration. However, if one is high in CYP2D6, one can take a dose of Harmalas earlier on in the day, and then like in the 6th or 8th or 10th hour take a second dose of Harmalas and the dosage of the second dose will be potentiated by the CYP2D6 inhibition of Harmalas, and can lengthen out duration as well if you catch it right.

 

[Gussss]

is there a reason why dmt is not getting active if someone is having 4g of syrian rue in capsules, and 30 min later 4g of AC in capsules? He gets the maoi effects, he says he feels very dizzy….
Any thoughts?

 

[Transform]

is there a reason why dmt is not getting active if someone is having 4g of syrian rue in capsules, and 30 min later 4g of AC in capsules? He gets the maoi effects, he says he feels very dizzy….
Any thoughts?

Maybe try using less rue, it could be blocking the DMT effects, assuming that your AC actually works.

 

[murklan]

Maybe try using less rue, it could be blocking the DMT effects, assuming that your AC actually works.

A bit on the side, but what about this that rue (harmalas) can block DMT effects? I've read this or something similar a very few times, but in my experience I'm suspicious of just this. Most times I just read that the more rue you take the more apparent is the rues own effects, but not that it diminish the DMT. Could you elaborate a bit more?

 

[Transform]

A bit on the side, but what about this that rue (harmalas) can block DMT effects? I've read this or something similar a very few times, but in my experience I'm suspicious of just this. Most times I just read that the more rue you take the more apparent is the rues own effects, but not that it diminish the DMT. Could you elaborate a bit more?

Something about 5HT receptor site occupancy - the harmala alkaloids can "get in the way" of the DMT. This is something that Jonathon Ott mentioned in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues" back in about 1995. I'd have to dig around a bit for more details. Something tells me harmol might act in this way, based on my experiences with sea buckthorn bark extract.

 

[Sabnock1990]

is there a reason why dmt is not getting active if someone is having 4g of syrian rue in capsules, and 30 min later 4g of AC in capsules? He gets the maoi effects, he says he feels very dizzy….
Any thoughts?

The Rue/Harmalas causes dizziness, even on it's own, even when using extracts ime, it's a dosage thing, try using 3 grams of Rue instead of 4 grams, 4 grams is a rather strong dose of Rue. As for the DMT not being active, it could be due to sluggish digestion or the Acacia isn't being digested well enough, try taking some sips/gulps of something here and there to give the root powder some liquid to help things absorb better. Ideally it's better to go for Acacia tea vs Acacia root powder capsules, but as far as capsules go making an Acacia residue by evaporating a tea dose and scraping up and encapsulating the residue works better than using the actual root powder encapsulated, though i can't remember if the residue worked better 30 minutes after the Rue or an hour after the Rue, usually i reserved 30 minutes apart for when i used Mimosa or Acacia root powder encapsulated or mushroom powder encapsulated since they take a bit longer to digest, and an hour apart for when i used Mimosa or Acacia teas or mushroom tea or 4-ACO-DMT encapsulated so i think with the residue being more quickly absorbed than root powder, an hour apart is probably better for residue, but for root powder 30 minutes apart always did the trick for me.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Something about 5HT receptor site occupancy - the harmala alkalids can "get in the way" of the DMT. This is something that Jonathon Ott mentioned in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues" back in about 1995. I'd have to dig around a bit for more details. Something tells me harmol might act in this way, based on my experiences with sea buckthorn bark extract.

Ime, it's actually better to use heavier Harmala dosages, the stronger the Harmala dosage the more MAO-A is inhibited and the more bioavailable/fully orally active the DMT is, and the more the higher dosage Harmala effects come out, but the DMT as far as i could tell was never blocked, altered sure but not blocked, still worked like a charm, just the higher Harmala dosages made things more Aya-like whereas when using lighter/more moderate Harmala dosages the effect is more DMT-like. I do however think/feel like there's a particular dosage range of Harmalas that allows things to be a bit more visual but beyond that it's like the visual aspect goes away (for me anyways) and things become more physical. Other than that though i definitely prefer and recommend heavy Harmala territory, haven't found it to block the effects of DMT at all. Now perhaps if you have a lot of THH in the mix or something that increases Serotonin a good bit (aside from the MAO-A inhibition) maybe then the DMT's effects at Serotonin receptors could be reduced, but i haven't found mere MAO-A inhibition to get in the way at all. With that said though, there's a wide variety of ways that one can alter DMT (as well as Harmalas) by the addition of some admixture plant or something, and that i feel is worth investigating.

 

[Transform]

Ime, it's actually better to use heavier Harmala dosages, the stronger the Harmala dosage the more MAO-A is inhibited and the more bioavailable/fully orally active the DMT is, and the more the higher dosage Harmala effects come out, but the DMT as far as i could tell was never blocked, altered sure but not blocked, still worked like a charm, just the higher Harmala dosages made things more Aya-like whereas when using lighter/more moderate Harmala dosages the effect is more DMT-like. I do however think/feel like there's a particular dosage range of Harmalas that allows things to be a bit more visual but beyond that it's like the visual aspect goes away (for me anyways) and things become more physical. Other than that though i definitely prefer and recommend heavy Harmala territory, haven't found it to block the effects of DMT at all. Now perhaps if you have a lot of THH in the mix or something that increases Serotonin a good bit (aside from the MAO-A inhibition) maybe then the DMT's effects at Serotonin receptors could be reduced, but i haven't found mere MAO-A inhibition to get in the way at all. With that said though, there's a wide variety of ways that one can alter DMT (as well as Harmalas) by the addition of some admixture plant or something, and that i feel is worth investigating.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer more harmalas too. It seemed worthy of mention that this viewpoint exists, but also that we should discuss its validity - it could be completely outdated, or it could be a matter of natural variation between different people. @Gussss still ought to establish whether the acacia material is even active, though!

And do remember, we're talking a fully psychoactive dose of harmalas here - some of that will be occupying serotonin receptors.

 

[Jees]

Ime waiting 30 mins is enough. Is waiting 60 mins leading to a deeper experience? I doubt about that. A shorter one I think.

For an all night long (dusk to dawn) maoi I start with 200 mg harmalaHCL then each 2 hours topping up with 100 mg. Take any tryptamines at will after 30mins of the 200 starter.
I keeps one below nausea level and not getting too harmala-tired/lazy so you can be active all the time.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Ime waiting 30 mins is enough. Is waiting 60 mins leading to a deeper experience? I doubt about that. A shorter one I think.

For an all night long (dusk to dawn) maoi I start with 200 mg harmalaHCL then each 2 hours topping up with 100 mg. Take any tryptamines at will after 30mins of the 200 starter.
I keeps one below nausea level and not getting too harmala-tired/lazy so you can be active all the time.

Ime DMT can be orally active at different timings, however the maximum bioavailability/oral activation of DMT occurs an hour into the Harmalas when gut MAO-A inhibition reaches it's max. Whereas if i take DMT say 30 minutes after Harmalas, sure it's active, but it's not as strong and doesn't seem to last as long as when dosed an hour after the Harmalas, due to gut MAO-A not being fully inhibited around 30 minutes in. Same thing i've noticed with Tryptophan for Tryptamine activation, and for Psilocin potentiated for Psilohuasca, it seems an hour into the Harmalas is best since gut MAO-A is inhibited to the max. 30 minutes apart can still work though i reserve 30 minutes apart for if i'm taking like Mimosa or Acacia root powder encapsulated or mushroom powder encapsulated or eating mushrooms, but for Mimosa/Acacia teas, for mushroom tea, for 4-ACO-DMT, for Tryptophan/Tryptamine, an hour into the Harmalas is ime best.

Also no need to take more than one Harmala dose ime, just need like 180 to 200mgs of Harmalas, and an hour later take a good dose of the DMT or Psilocin and you're good to for a full nights journey. The DMT will last 4 to 5 hours in total duration, the Harmalas will last 6 to 8 to 10 hours in total duration depending on dosage, and potentiated Psilocin will last 9 to 12 hours in total.

 

[Jees]

Ime DMT can be orally active at different timings, however the maximum bioavailability/oral activation of DMT occurs an hour into the Harmalas when gut MAO-A inhibition reaches it's max. Whereas if i take DMT say 30 minutes after Harmalas, sure it's active, but it's not as strong and doesn't seem to last as long as when dosed an hour after the Harmalas, due to gut MAO-A not being fully inhibited around 30 minutes in. Same thing i've noticed with Tryptophan for Tryptamine activation, and for Psilocin potentiated for Psilohuasca, it seems an hour into the Harmalas is best since gut MAO-A is inhibited to the max. 30 minutes apart can still work though i reserve 30 minutes apart for if i'm taking like Mimosa or Acacia root powder encapsulated or mushroom powder encapsulated or eating mushrooms, but for Mimosa/Acacia teas, for mushroom tea, for 4-ACO-DMT, for Tryptophan/Tryptamine, an hour into the Harmalas is ime best.

Also no need to take more than one Harmala dose ime, just need like 180 to 200mgs of Harmalas, and an hour later take a good dose of the DMT or Psilocin and you're good to for a full nights journey. The DMT will last 4 to 5 hours in total duration, the Harmalas will last 6 to 8 to 10 hours in total duration depending on dosage, and potentiated Psilocin will last 9 to 12 hours in total.

Thanks for that Sabnock1990,
my protocol worked well to the level of satisfaction, but I haven't tested variations really for all night long maoi purposes.

Fwiw the target I'm talking about is actually all night dancing so the lesser harmalas the better for max activity.
Deems doses/redoses are also minimized to not compromise motoric functions, physical stability must be remained if only for safety reasons.
I'm in the search for the best way to go around this and going to take your spin to hearth

 

[Sabnock1990]

Oooo, hadn't thought about that for having better motor functionality, though for me i usually just keep taking Harmalas, get the body used to em', and the motor impairment and other side-effects go away naturally so after awhile functionality is fine even on the heaviest Harmala dosages, ime. But not everyone takes Harmalas regularly so stacking the Harmalas and DMT here and there during the experience sounds doable for the irregular user. After awhile of regularly consuming Harmalas things clean up so nicely that it feels pretty much like an anti-depressant, so it can be easy to forget how rough things can be Harmala-wise when first starting out again lol.

But yeah i find that if i take the Harmalas and an hour later i take the DMT, things are pretty stable and consistent, the come up is the only time i really gotta be sitting down and like focused inwards, but once the peak hits i can get up and move around just fine even with stiff doses, but again i consume Harmalas regularly so they're much cleaner in effect. Another thing you can try is having the DMT in liquid form (or like using a clean Mimosa or Acacia tea) and sipping on it for 10 to 15 minutes, doing so will give you a much smoother/gentler DMT come up with lessened intensity but still powerful and effective, just more user-friendly, so that could come in handy imo/ime when it comes to dancing and functionality, especially so you can go deeper into the DMT effects without having to endure all the "seriousness" that the come up intensity would otherwise demand.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Btw you can also experiment some and add different herbal teas or supplements to the Harmalas and DMT, in order to either clean up the side-effects or bodyload, or to add different aspects/benefits to the mix, or to "flavor" the effects/experience in different ways, personally i really liked Lemon Balm (3 to 4 grams of dried leaf tea) with my Harmalas and DMT, as well as the sipping of the DMT for 10 to 15 minutes, dare i say it was almost like a Psychedelic Alcohol kinda, in a way, surprisingly lol. The Lemon Balm cleans up the Harmala bodyload, and also reduces intensity of the DMT, while providing anti-anxiety and relaxative effects through the GABA Transaminase inhibition and thus raising of GABA levels. I didn't find it to get in the way of higher consciousness and insights and mystical experiences and all that, seemed to synergize just fine, so that may also be worth checking out if you haven't already, good for dancing lol.

 

[Jees]

The 1 hour delay indeed works more thorough than 30 mins.

A 10mg freebase D gives a nice 2 hours plateau for stiff recreative dancing + tapering of from there. For this purpose no visuals or deeper work is target, just a tool for enhancing the dancing experience in a very stimulating and crowded place. In this case you don't want to need to sit-down, lay-down or fall over, got to have a margin for safety and general responsibility. No chance for herbal teas or sipping dmt liquids here.

About "the Harmalas will last 6 to 8 to 10 hours in total duration depending on dosage"
Sabnock1990, after that 2 hours of fun, which is now 3 hours after the 200mg harmalasHCL, if taken another 10mg FB deemz, do you expect the initial 200 harmalas to cover that also? As strong as the first 10mg for another 2 hours? In other words, does 200mg harmala HCL covers for 1+2+2 = 5 hours of maoi in total? The first one is the delay actually.