How to be social?

[obliguhl]

I find that strange.....you may feel misery as part of your daily routine, nothing wrong with that, but it is rather bold to assume most people also experience misery daily, isn't it?

It is indeed a strong word. What i really meant but failed to communicate: People you normally meet on the streets are usually in a bad mood, doing their daily commute, chores like buying groceries etc, stuck in the daily grind etc. It might be that they are not miserable overall, but i would guess that in the USA and Europe, a lot of them are. And that reflects on how they look at other people...

Of course, during the weekends it's highlife in cans ...

I don't mean this in a rude way but I suggest maybe getting laid! Lol

How is that possible while having social anxiety?

I would also like to ask Infectedstyle about Salvia. You are the first person to talk about Salvia in a context of reliving social anxiety. Do you have any sources, that it indeed helps with this problem?

 

[Infectedstyle]

I would also like to ask Infectedstyle about Salvia. You are the first person to talk about Salvia in a context of reliving social anxiety. Do you have any sources, that it indeed helps with this problem?

Nop, but i found out that dmt and mushrooms can help alleviate anxiety by embracing you like a warm blanket. Salvia is a powerful teacherplant and if it is anything like that it might be useful in that regard.

I guess i envision using salvia to become like Jin, a nature-lover.
I am also definitely a people-lover. Hehe, people are as much a part of nature as plants are and i love em.

I'm just looking for things to keep me occupied right now. Not sure if i'm gazing in the right direction but i'm looking for drugs to sample and have a good time with.

Smoked marihuana fucks me up big time, leaves me feeling crippled for 2-3 hours and scared to leave the room for fear i might bump into someone. It does help in magnifying my fear and anxiety but i can't seem to find a prime cause for my anxiety that i can work on.

Although it is clear it has less to do with other people and more to do with me being so confused and uncomfortable with my own self. I'm going out on a limp here and try to take everything i have said in this forum and share it with someone in real life. See how that works out.

 

[Infectedstyle]

Oh yea, i'm very sensitive to tobacco. Smoking definitely makes me anxious. Not always, but 80% of the time it doesn't feel good. Also detrimental in meditation, can't fully use my lungs the way i like to.

 

[Poekus]

Trying to find out what the other person would like to do or talk about is very hard so I just try to utter out the single first sentence that forms in my head. Which is generally shallow and uninteresting, even to me.

I read an article a few years ago that was like a revelation, and has served me quite well in friendly conversation and with women. I always assumed, like you seem to, that a good conversation is when you are being interesting. IT'S NOT! (at least for those who have trouble conversing). It's when the other person, the one you are conversing with, FEELS interesting. Get them talking. Ask questions and let them answer. It's MIRACULOUS. People love to talk about themselves and it is only rare people that like to listen, and even then we all have a limit to our attention spans.

This was a revelation to me: PEOPLE LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES.

So indulge them and take the pressure off yourself at the same time:

"Where are you from?"
"Do you have any brothers or sisters?"
"where are they?
"what do they do?"
"what do you like to do in your spare time?"
"what gets you up in the morning?"
"do you like this music?"
"what do you think of this place?"
"do I froth the milk or heat it for your coffee tomorrow morning?" (joke 8) )

They sound mundane, but the answers are often very interesting and lead you to things in common, or to stories they want to tell, or at best, to laughter, the ultimate conversation lubricant (and aphrodisiac).

I have always been painfully shy, and squirm in discomfort when a friend walks away leaving me with someone I barely know, or worse, am attracted to - or both - until I remember to just start asking some mundane questions.

And also realize that the other party likely feels nervous, but also has a responsibility to live up to the conversation. So make it easy on them and ask leading questions. You'd be surprised how easy it becomes, and more importantly, how much you have in common with people you have nothing in common with.

Try it.

JBArk

Exactly what JBark says, asking is the key to conversation. Use the response you get as a bridge to a new question. Listen with sincere interest what keeps people busy and ask about it when you see them.
By asking the first question you can set the topic and choose something you feel comfortable with.

Use questions in your responses to questions to keep the conversation dynamic. Don't let someone be the only one asking the questions; it will kill most conversations.

If you like the people you're having the conversations with, try to end the conversation with a question that leads to a later meet up. Don't invest too much time in people showing no interest in you, but instead use that time to have conversations with new people or in the people you consider (potential) friends already.

When people asking questions back and showing interest in you, you'll have the first foundation for friendship.

The moment a friendship establishes, maintaining that friendship is what challenges it. If true friendships are what you're looking for, prepare to 'work' hard for it.

Keep in mind that most people don't have more than 2-3 true balanced friends even though their Facebook page says 200+. So try not to feel too socially awkward if you don't have many 'friends'.

Also true friends can come and go. For me personally I only have one true friend which I know for over 25 years now. The rest of friendships are quite sequential. I sometimes catch up with them but they are not seen frequently.

Accept that you're probably an introvert person and don't try to be extravert forcefully. That will get you out of your comfort zone. Just be who you are and if people don't like it that way, realize that's not your problem.

All this things seem so easy but of course it's not. But if you start to converse you'll notice that there are lots of people interested in you as well.

If you're looking for a woman (or guy) in your life and you find it hard to connect to people in real-life, use internet for it. It's a very accessible slow pace way of getting to know people. It's no shame to start dating on the internet, in my surroundings quite some people got wonderful relationships out of it.

I think from the fact that you realize that you want more contact with people, you already made the first big step.

Good luck in finding your luck!

 

[thymamai]

You went out of the ballpark on the first page, very wise, very kind words posted there. Both words of other members and by you yourself. But a few things..

Keep life simple for yourself.
Hit the gym; you are a man.
Invite that broad to a cup of coffee.
Enjoy yourself, enjoy growing.

For so long as there are beauties in this world, I aim to.

 

[Ryusaki]

Learn to be self-sustained.
Its hard at first, you want to get approval from other people that what you are doing is the right thing.
Disregard that notion. You want to do what YOU feel is right, no matter what other people think of it.

I give you an example, it might be shallow but describes the process.
Since taking Ayahuasca i changed my dresscode from black to colorful (i was/am shy too).
For example I walk around with a white/grey/brown snow camonflage pants, yellow/red sweaters, and always a colorful patterned scarf.
People stare at me, especially when everybody else is wearing black/dark boring clothes.
At first it was really unnerving.
30% of the females (especial the fancy, trendy type) look me straight in the eyes, then look at the pants with a disgusted look in their eyes.

In the past i would feel bad and would think about changing my style, i would take it very seriously.
Not so now, it has become a running gag.
I look straight back, endure their snobbishness and react with a sardonic grin while mirroring their body language, sometimes with astonishing results.

They don't have the power to make me feel miserable, i have the power to turn it around so that the experience is giving ME power.
Yes, thats right, i feel BETTER when the fancy in-crowd looks down on me, because i don't have to accept their opinion, can have my own one and be content with the fact that people disagree with me.

This ability is a powerful tool. It relaxes me extremly.
Some years back i couldn't even stand a 3 second eye contact, now i am only milliseconds away from asking strangers on the street:
What? You don't like my pants?

 

[thymamai]

^that is funny Ryusaki. I know that feel, too. It feels very good even liberating to mock by implication the snobbishness and everybody's fragile sense of dignity. We learn very quick that there are simply too many cowards in the world not to aggrandize oneself by it. Though, my taste in clothing differs drastically from what you describe.. I've always preferred generic, work-uniform stuff. I prefer to blend in and draw as little attention as possible, as well as appeal to possible employers and laborers. Quite honestly, if I had a good jumpsuit I'd probably just wear that every day. On the flipside, it can be irritating to see how small a jump it is to think that I am dressed the way I am for anybody elses benefit but mine. And for this reason I also prefer not to dress too neat or too black or too rough looking.. I guess in some way I am still just plain vain.

Anyway, hats off to you sir and 100% agree on learning to be self-sustained. It takes time, and plenty of hyperslaps to the ego too if you're anything like me, on the way there.

 

[kyrolima]

Do what makes you feel good.
Recognize thinking patterns - watch your thoughts and feelings,
BE more social.
Most importantly: excercise every 3 days
yoga has improved my mental and physical health tremendously.

As far as social anxiety is concerend I would suggest consulting a psychologist or consultant

Theory:
Be aware that this behavior is just overreflection.
I do believe that it has to do with desire and the conditioned beliefes around aquiring it. The more you value something, and recognize the abscence of it - the more AGAINST the situations and circumstances and state of being you will be
The solution: Be in the now and respond the way you would like to respond regardless the outer circumstances.

When you were a kid, you have been conditioned to behave a certain way in order to get the desired stuff
Nowadays your inner child gets orders from your "older" self, which replaces the function of your parents - only that it is misfunctioning and keeping you miserable AND you can not see how it it's working.
(I guess Freud calls it ÜBERich)

Get concious of your behavior, thoughts and actions and everything will be well.

 

[Infectedstyle]

That is really accurate to my situation Kyrolima, thanks.

Update: I am really quite disappointed in myself. And have been on a self-destructing path which makes making a healthy mindswitch just that much harder.

Preprogrammed behavior has a firm grip on me, that is for sure. It is amazing to watch it in action. When i was 17 or so, I talked to my psychiatrist and mentioned i share a lot of symptoms of ADD and we both agreed on trying Ritalin. It didn't do much for my, i took them for a week and thought it was all placebo so i quit.

Last week i did some pills which supposedly contain Methylphenidate, which is like Ritalin. in terms of pharmacology. It is primarily a Dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

The clarity of thought this substance gives me is amazing. As the peak comes up it feels as if there is a therapeutic voice present which is guiding my thought-patterns, it is forcing positive thoughts and points to me exactly which thoughts are detrimental for my mental well-being. It pointed me which thoughts are ilusory and which ones are true.

It is amazing what this substance can do. I think it is the dopamine motivation pattern that I am missing in social interaction. There is just not enough short term reward for me to build motivation.

The only downside was the come-down of this substance. As i could feel it leave my system I could also feel how enormous an impact a single negative thought would have on my system. The come-down of stimulants is like a crashing freight train accompanied with a feeling of loss because the trainride was so damn good.

What is thrilling is that a friend came over just at the come-down. As i'm still slightly buzzed from the substance I could just naturally flow conversation, good manners and basically had quite a good time. The presence of another human made the come-down much less severe and we had a few good laughs as well.

In the first hour with this guy the stimulant was stil active and it is interesting how crystal clear I can observe these social interactions. There's a lot of garbage in this mind of mine but I could easily dissect and dissolve not only my own garbage but also regocnize the garbage of my social partner's mind at the time.

I still want to try a serotonergic stimulant. MDMA, LSD. I want to learn more about empathic thinking.

I am just so fed up with my mental state these days. I have been growing grams and grams of mushrooms, I'm just scared to do psychedelics right now because I have been living like an addicted monk smoking weed 24/7. Can't even find the energy to exercise once or twice a week.

 

[hug46]

I am just so fed up with my mental state these days. I have been growing grams and grams of mushrooms, I'm just scared to do psychedelics right now because I have been living like an addicted monk smoking weed 24/7. Can't even find the energy to exercise once or twice a week.

Stop smoking weed 24/7. this will not help. Some say that it punches holes in your energy fields, which is a polite way of saying that it fks you up.

 

[3rdI]

I would agree with hug, im horrible socially when im stoned or while the lingering effects are still present. If I lay off the weed for a couple of weeks im like a different person and couldn't be more cheerfull and happy in social situations.

its sad because I love to smoke a joint, but I have found it just doesn't go well with any type of anxiety.

 

[Infectedstyle]

It's true. The first joint was good and i didn't need much but now when i get stoned i get so anxious i don't even pick up my phone. The next day when i'm sobered up i don't relate to the fear, picking up the phone isn't such a big deal, i just get questions of why i don't pick up my phone. In this way i haven't spoken to some people for weeks.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

From what i have read, it seems to me that no idea, concept or practice is going to change the nature of the situation you are dealing with.

No amount of advice can solve this issue if there is an underlying cause found in your chemistry.

The symptoms you report of physical sensations imply that this is the case.

Likewise feeling better when you take certain chemicals also implies this.

I would try and consult an open minded psychiatrist.

 

[Infectedstyle]

Thanks Albert, and your right, there has been loads of great advice given to me in this thread but ultimately I think it comes down to proper cultivation. It takes time and good intentions to cultivate positive influences. And what works best is simply being in the 'now' and responding to people and thought-patterns according to my highest standards. And change yourself and others as you go along with it.

 

[Guyomech]

If weed made me anxious if stop smoking it. What would be the point? From everything you've said so far it seems like excessive cannabis use is part of your cycle of social dysfunction. And if you smoke it that heavily it will also sap you of your physical sense of well-being, which in turn will effect your ability to socialize. It sounds like an easy answer- lay off the weed for a while, a month at least, and see what happens. Try some long walks to get back into moving your body, which will definitely aid you in feeling more positive. I think you need to step out of the fog if you want clarity on your problem, rather than just adding more chemicals to the mix.

Once you've got a little distance from the THC anxiety, then try a gram if your shrooms, or even just a half. At bare minimum it will help clarify your perspective.

 

[Infectedstyle]

Yes, that is what i should be doing for recovery now. I have had long periods of non-smoking which actually makes tension more pronounced in a certain sense. That alone does not help me release the tension so i think I'll heed ur advice and work towards doing some mushrooms. I'd like to because i was steadily progressing and liked going into higher doses not too long ago.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

It takes time and good intentions to cultivate positive influences. And what works best is simply being in the 'now' and responding to people and thought-patterns according to my highest standards.

I want to warn you that this might not actually be possible, try it, but have a way to recognize if it is not working.

The cause might not be something a change of mindset or mental approach can rectify.
It could be tied directly to physiology, you might approach it through diet, through medication both licit, illicit, synthetic and organic etc.

This may have nothing to do with perspective per say.

I know of cases where people had reactions to food that caused a certain mental state, trying to deal with their problems from the mental emotional approach failed completely, but when they changed their diet and avoided certain foods then their mental state was changed.

Beware of the illusion that we control our minds.

Whatever the case, just have a way to tell if whatever approach you try is not working and beware of logic whee you or someone else says that X process works and if it does not work for you then you are doing it wrong.


Sometimes we and others can believe that change is more possible than it is, particularly in terms of if we change our opinion, our approach or our outlook then other aspects will also change. This is not always true, it can be true to some extent, but also there is a lot of evidence illustrating that aspects of personality, emotionality and even intelligence are genetically moderated. We like to think of Mind states and choices as things we have control over to some degree, but what if they are like hair color, or the shape of your nose?

I am not saying you cannot change, but I am suggesting that who you are is who you are and the theory that you can change who you are by changing your thoughts or actions or practices is largely used to sell self help books. Accepting your state and approaching it not from a point of view of expecting change, but instead recognizing and working with it as best you can might yield better results than trying to feel differently than you do.

For some, we have very little influence on how we feel, but can choose how we respond to and hold on to our emotions and thoughts. The question of free will is always valid in terms of how much we are able to actually choose. All of us fall into patterns of behavior and emotion that are relative to our genetic identity, what we do with that we have some influence over, but what that is we have no more influence than being able to choose our biological parents.

As a parent i notice that in terms of persona, emotion, intelligence and behavior all of my children are identifiable as expressions of traits shared by their parents and grandparents. In regard to this some of the challenges they face in terms of emotion and response are things that their parents and grandparents have faced and dealt with, insofar as this I suggest that if it is possible you look to your parents and their parents for clues regarding issues with anxiety, social interaction etc.

Goodluck.