How to prevent premature vomiting by MAOI in ayahuasca?

[suit13]

Hello folks : )

I took Ayahuasca again the day before yesterday and.... again nothing happened. Again after 25 minutes I puked everything out (I made a Chacruna 50g and Caapi 50g brew). So I took the second dose of this brew, which was also puked out after about 15 minutes. Therefore unfortunately as before also no effect by too early vomiting : (

-> My question: What could one do here?

For example, you could perhaps prepare MAOI (caapi) separately and take it first (as often recommended), but wait until you vomit as expected before taking Chacruna.
-> So here is the question, how long does the body need on average to absorb the amount of MAOI necessary for Ayahuasca? After this time the vomiting should not prevent the trip anymore and the chacruna can be drunk immediately.

So I'm looking for a way to get enough MAOI for Ayahuasca without having to vomit it prematurely. I was already thinking about taking pharmaceutical or other MAOI, but I don't know anything about it.

So, please help me out with that Thank you really really lot for your patience and help!

PS: I tried Ayahuasca several times before from different vendors with chacruna/caapi and mimosa/harmala. I never get any effect and mostly I vomit just 15-30 minutes after taking it.

 

[coAsTal]

You're most likely throwing up that fast because there are too many tannins/physical particulates from your plant matter in the liquid-- they are very nasty to your stomach because they can't be digested.

I would advise you to either filter more thoroughly before drinking, or at least let the finished liquid settle for a couple days in the fridge, then pour off the liquid leaving the sediment at the bottom-- this made a big difference for me.

 

[Eaglepath]

Filtering a lot is key! If you can run the brew through a coffe filter in the end, it will usually be much easier on the stomache.

But also remember that often what you get is nessesary for you And you will eventually get more used with the brew and puking is then less likey to occur.

If you want to try them separetly you can do that. Usually after 30min the effect of Ayahuasca is notably and you could proceed with the Chacruna.

I dont know about your Caapi but I would go with at least 100g. That also with the Chacruna but it depends also of what you want to get out of it.

But I understand you frustration.. Been there

 

[suit13]

Thank you both a lot !

So I will filter much more next time via coffeefilter.

If you want to try them separetly you can do that. Usually after 30min the effect of Ayahuasca is notably and you could proceed with the Chacruna.

"The effect of ayahuasca"? You mean Caapi as MAOI?!


My question is: after which time the body took in (or on? or off?!) enough MAOI from caapi so that it does not matter if one vomit after that time or not for the full ayahuasca effect?


PS: I tried Ayahuasca several times before from different vendors with chacruna/caapi and mimosa/harmala. I never get any effect and mostly I vomit just 15-30 minutes after taking it.

 

[coAsTal]

If I were you, I would keep the teas separate until you get a workable system down.

Let the prepared tea sit for at least overnight in a jar -- I'm tellin you, gravity will do most of the work for you! I don't need to filter mine after that crap settles out-- just pour off the clarified liquid-- but you can always use a paper filter if needed.

Remember-- the particulates are your enemy.

So you drink the clear caapi tea, (I have added coffee to it by the way, but clean caapi tea is actually delicious on it's own if properly clarified!) and wait 30 minutes to an hour after finishing the last of it before doing the same with the viridis tea. This will allow the MAOI to make it into your system, and should also let you know you have kept it in long enough for the effects.

Viridis/Chali is always a little tougher to clarify if you've not used whole leaf-- I don't ever grind or break up my leaf, and I only use low heat for a couple hours with just a dash of vinegar when simmering. The particulates that are stomach-churning are pretty tiny from the leaf-- but afain, if you let the liquid settle for a couple days BEFORE reducing it, your end tea will be far more palatable.

It's always been the leaf part that makes me feel nautious-- so don't be afraid to try things to make the flavor more tolerable for yourself. I've had success with eating dabs of almond butter and also strong ginger tea or root bits helps too before/after each drink of leaf. It helps-- just don't overdo it.

 

[Eaglepath]

Thank you both a lot !

So I will filter much more next time via coffeefilter.

If you want to try them separetly you can do that. Usually after 30min the effect of Ayahuasca is notably and you could proceed with the Chacruna.

"The effect of ayahuasca"? You mean Caapi as MAOI?!


My question is: after which time the body took in (or on? or off?!) enough MAOI from caapi so that it does not matter if one vomit after that time or not for the full ayahuasca effect?


PS: I tried Ayahuasca several times before from different vendors with chacruna/caapi and mimosa/harmala. I never get any effect and mostly I vomit just 15-30 minutes after taking it.

Yes I mean Caapi.. Caapi/Ayahuasca...

Brew 100g Caapi and 100g Chacruna separetly. Dont eat for at least 3-4 hours before. Drink half of the Caapi, sit straight up and wai, meditate breath and.. After a while (ca 30min) you will feel the effect of sedation and calmness coming over.. Also if your are sensitive you feel the vibrations becoming different (different pitch of sound in your ears). Then you drink half of the chacruna and wait for another 30min or so. (sitting straight up continuing the breathing and meditation). If you puke before you feel any effects, then puke it aaaall out.. wait 10-15min then empty the other halv of Caapi again and start over the process. With Ayahuasca in general: Drink until it works, dont stop!

And as coastal said, keeping the bottle in the fridge over night cleans up the brew good.

Good luck!

 

[FranLover]

200-300g of caapi shouldnt be enough to even make one think about vomiting. But 10g of mimosa or psychotria is totally disgusting and will make one gag...so do not mix, one is just making it harder on oneself. Indeed filter effectivley.

 

[zatoichi]

I am a novice, but have been studying. Extracting the harmine/harmaline and mixing with purified DMT I think would be best.

Smoked freebase for quick experience, before long term other world, by ingesting.

 

[zatoichi]

Caapi or Rue seeds is supposed to be nasty, taste/vomit wise, if not extracted and taken as harmine/harmaline. It also makes for more pleasureable experience. Less negative thoughts.

 

[coAsTal]

200-300g of caapi shouldnt be enough to even make one think about vomiting. But 10g of mimosa or psychotria is totally disgusting and will make one gag...so do not mix, one is just making it harder on oneself. Indeed filter effectivley.

I don't mean to call you out, but this is absolutely not true-- the harmala content in that much caapi can slam you into an awful situation-- nobody should read this to think that 200 or 300g of caapi is an appropriate dose-- ESPECIALLY for an inexperienced person.
I think it's important to say this since new people are in here.

Most often, 50g to 100g is a normal, practical dose -- and I have had strong vine that obliterated me at 75g. As in, OBLITERATED ME.
if someone that didn't research further and thought that it was ok to take 2/300g of caapi tea plus leaf, they coule end up in a nightmare stupor-- that's a VERY strong dose.

 

[Jees]

Grams of caapi is often mixed up between fresh wet and bone dry wood.
For dry material I would start out with 50 and build up from there if more is needed, I'm with coastal that 100 dry is considered a serious level not to underestimate.
Another factor is if the caapi is little chunks or finely shredded, and how well the boiling was done. On fine powder caapi a 15 min boil can extract a lot out of the wood, do that with chunks and you get little to none, all things that can skew 'grams' of wood.

 

[FranLover]

Caapi or Rue seeds is supposed to be nasty, taste/vomit wise, if not extracted and taken as harmine/harmaline. It also makes for more pleasureable experience. Less negative thoughts.

Caapi tea can be as tasty as any ol tea ! :3

200-300g of caapi shouldnt be enough to even make one think about vomiting. But 10g of mimosa or psychotria is totally disgusting and will make one gag...so do not mix, one is just making it harder on oneself. Indeed filter effectivley.

I don't mean to call you out, but this is absolutely not true-- the harmala content in that much caapi can slam you into an awful situation-- nobody should read this to think that 200 or 300g of caapi is an appropriate dose-- ESPECIALLY for an inexperienced person.
I think it's important to say this since new people are in here.

Most often, 50g to 100g is a normal, practical dose -- and I have had strong vine that obliterated me at 75g. As in, OBLITERATED ME.
if someone that didn't research further and thought that it was ok to take 2/300g of caapi tea plus leaf, they coule end up in a nightmare stupor-- that's a VERY strong dose.

It depends on which Caapi and for what purpose. As you said you use strong vine, also I imagine you added DMT, which is not a pre requisite for this type of divination--still its important to let less experienced users know that 100g should more often than not be enough. My main point though is: Caapi is actually tasty or normal tasting at that!

 

[coAsTal]

I now get what you meant with your mention of 200-300g now that you explained-- when I re-read it now I see that you meant that even at a huge amount of caapi it shouldn't taste bad-- which is true-- and that it is poor filtering that is usually the culprit with caapi tasting bad.

I've used the egg-white filter method on caapi to excellent results-- I love doing it but some people say they don't.

When I do that, the brew becomes this golden-orange or rust color, and is crystal clear-- I agree with you that the taste is truly very good-- it is really quite nice to drink! Any leaf added though is just going to taste poor in comparison, and if unfiltered, will feel noxious to the system.

But I was also thinking back, and remembered that I have accidentally used more vinegar in the past than was probably necessary, which made the resulting tea taste a little foul and did upset me stomach. Now I only use a little vinegar on the first and second pulls, and water only on the third or fourth. This could help others to avoid acid nausea in the belly.

One could also mention that the tea can certainly be burned when reducing if one isn't careful during reduction-- which makes it taste gross too, so those are two other things to keep an eye on as a new brewer.

 

[Jees]

...and that it is poor filtering that is usually the culprit with caapi tasting bad...

I find strictly caapi tea actually good tasting unless crossing a certain point during the volume reduction as the concentration rises over a threshold, from there on something seemed to change and the real yuk sets in. I've never re-filtered from there on to see if that makes things better, that is something I should check out.

 

[Eaglepath]

I remember some years ago when I usually in the evening made a tea from around 20g Caapi leaves or Bark, a little bit of Stevia then enjoyed it as any other tea. (we are speaking only simmering like 30min or so). Sometimes with a little Caapi leaves joint by the side.

 

[Jees]

I remember some years ago when I usually in the evening made a tea from around 20g Caapi leaves or Bark, a little bit of Stevia then enjoyed it as any other tea. (we are speaking only simmering like 30min or so). Sometimes with a little Caapi leaves joint by the side.

It's a nice way to microdose caapi, making a 1 liter tea bottle and drink over the day, tea made out of just some grams of caapi. Non volume reduced tea, or diluted former volume reduced tea.
:thumb_up:

 

[Eaglepath]

Yes, thats perfect way to go. I think I need to take up that habit again Maybe chew some Chali leaves as well or something weird

 

[Jees]

...I think I need to take up that habit again...

Me too, and imho the internals can get used to alkaloids in a slow steady manner so there's lesser of a shock when doing steeper doses in sessions.
There was a time I drank like few grams of plain aya powdered wood in a cold drink, but left that habit being afraid for potential jungle micro organisms in the wood. Boiling first is most safe.

 

[Eaglepath]

Yes I agree.. It was sometime when I drank Ayahuasca(Caapi/Chali) morning/lunch/afternoon for a month or something. And after some time doing that the tolerance for the brew definitely increased.. While the potency(sensitiveness) also increased..

But it didnt seem to last haha.. Now when I drink I always need to go into full Yoda enlightenment robot mode before swallow it down

 

[suit13]

Let the prepared tea sit for at least overnight in a jar -- I'm tellin you, gravity will do most of the work for you!

Maybe stupid question but: Do the active ingredients not sink by that method as well to the ground?

And: Is it good to do that methods for the dmt tea too or only for the maoi tea?

Moreover: How to ahndle it the best way with the rue seeds if you havent caapi anymore but those seeds? Once I drunk these just with water and making them to power before (but also vomitted too early then).