I quit. Game over.

[Spiceman]

Glad to see you finally brokethrough via smoking.... sorry to hear it was so terrifying... you have to just surrender... and always be laying down .. closed eyes... try to go inside... your senses cant handle both worlds at once... go inside always.. Peace and Godspeed joebono

 

[DMTripper]

....

All I know is that I was in the bedroom yelling to make it stop, that it wasn’t right, that it wasn’t normal. I think I was screaming. Oh God, the neighbors must think I am a crazy asshole – and what if they were to call the police? I was grasping and begging to get myself back. It was terrifying.

You don't remember what you were experiencing here? People have experienced that they were screaming but a sitter confirmed that it actually didn't happen in this reality.

I left the room and walked into the kitchen and here the whole fucking place became electrified with crazy colors and everything in front of me looked as if some nutjob artist went ballistic. And it wouldn’t stop, everything just became alive with energy and power and life. These visuals were like NOTHING I have ever witnessed – just pulsating violently. I was completely and totally immersed in between these two worlds. It was a Roger Rabbit cartoon land. Yes it was unspeakably and stunningly beautiful, but my full blown panic and fear that I really did brain damage this time destroyed me.

What part didn't you like here? hehe. But there you sound like you didn't break through. Was this after you came back? So you were already coming down there?

While it is happening it takes on the significance of the birthing process. Imagine you could remember the moment you were born and the importance and gravity of that event is the seriousness of DMT. Fuck this. My mind can’t handle that shit. I am throwing in the towel. You win.

And again. What part don't you like of this?

The only thing that was wrong was that you were panicking. The trip it self maybe was great but you were stuck in the panic. You were stuck in fear. And fear is the only darkness. Fear makes you fight and you can't fight DMT. DMT will always win a fight. But surrender to it and it becomes a good friend and let's you enjoy something that can yes sometimes be quite from beyond

Just smile and enjoy the ride

Good luck

 

[joebono]

Yes, DMTripper, the panic is what messed up the trip. I really don't remember the first part except that I was in a place that was familiar, eternal, and always waiting for me. I don't want to go there because it seems like death. I have been there before on salvia and on nitrous when I was a teen and I hate that place. After the breakthrough is when I was trying to shake the trip off and went into the other room and saw the world get electrified. That would have been euphoric and mind-blowing if I wasn't in complete hysterics.

 

[DMTripper]

Yes, DMTripper, the panic is what messed up the trip. I really don't remember the first part except that I was in a place that was familiar, eternal, and always waiting for me. I don't want to go there because it seems like death. I have been there before on salvia and on nitrous when I was a teen and I hate that place. After the breakthrough is when I was trying to shake the trip off and went into the other room and saw the world get electrified. That would have been euphoric and mind-blowing if I wasn't in complete hysterics.

Ok so it was the infamous "scared to die" scenario. Well hate to tell you but you need to be ready to die if you want to successfully smoke DMT You need to be ready to surrender to whatever and just enjoy. If you die then just enjoy it It can be the most amazing trips when you accept your death and just go over. That's one way to break through

Don't Panic, it's ok to die. We will all some day

 

[Oncewas]

Go back.

 

[Felnik]

I've had a few bad ones recently I've been trying to trace why and I think set and setting is everything. Also I still think caapi tea beforehand adds alot to the experience. I had one with just spice that was so overwhelming with visuals and physically demanding that i think I basically passed out.

I know how amazing it can be so I try to take the good ones with the bad ones and try not to panic. I think it takes some kind of inner strength to hold your own against one of those intense unrelenting in your face trips. I always just try to witness it, breathe, and don't panic. Stay cool and ride it out. It takes practice and even with that I still get my ass kicked sometimes.

 

[Pandora]

Hi joebono,

I feel you. I had a horrible/demented LSD trip when I was young and took 20+ years off from psychedelics.

I have had dozens of positive breakthroughs. Yet, as of the week of Xmas, things have been nothing but a rough ride. I pushed too much in December, then took about a month off. Tried a few stacked low doses (10,15,20 mg) of the cleanest, most pure, most visual/beautiful spice I have ever pulled. More problems. Tried a couple pharma trips yesterday. Much more interesting, but still mroe problems.

I swear, I had mastered the art of surrender, could relax into dying, the whole nine-yards. Then a number of factors came together to create a horrible kind of synergy/cascade within my mind that I still cannot seem to shake. Panic, panic, panic in the core of the limbic system/reptile brain. It seems to bypass the rational mind whether I can understand, rationialize it or make it sane somehow. It seems to bypass my attemps to go with the flow, to let go, to surrender.

Everyone who has been posting about surrender is 100% right. Yet, beyond this, I do not know what the secret is, nor can I gleen it from these posts. Not when dealing with a reaction that is not the dread/delusion/confusion of the deep past but the raw panic of the present.

Having done all this whining, I would like to say unlike what I thought elphologist's post meant, I feel that the spice offers so much more in terms of benefits and opening doors to insight/growth/change. Simply put: It Is Powerful Medicine. Wonderful for those who can take it. I am beginning to believe I may not be one of them.

Regarding your situation, may I humbly suggest that you both give it some serious time and try to be kind to yourself? All of the fears, concerns, reactions, feelings, etc. that are coming up are okay. There's nothing wrong or abnormal about this at all. Think about periods of HEAVY physical and/or mental growth in your life. Seriously man, weren't they always painful in one way or another? Yet, we wind up being better people in the end.

May I humbly suggest that you are not currently in a good situation to make any sort of drastic or life changing decision? Perhaps taking a few weeks or months off would clarify things greatly. Speaking for myself, it definately normalized things tremendously.

Wishing you all the best hoping you will continue to post. . .

Peace & Love,
Pandora

 

[Morphane]

Seems to me that our human experience is geared towards guiding us toward the middle, or moderation. This is my impression of what Epicureanism, Stoicism, Buddhism and many other great philosophies teach. My addiction is the God of Christianity, yet time and time again I discover that when I cling onto God, or anything - it dies. It dies like breath, so you learn to exhale. By letting go, it comes back. Thus the road to enlightenment becomes the learning of letting go. Breathing.

Pandora, you've had some of the greatest experiences on DMT that I have ever read. I almost become enlightened merely reading your experiences - I can't begin to imagine what living them must have been like. Thus I'm disturbed to see you say you musn't be one of those who can take it. What the? You're the chosen one as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, I think that if people cling onto DMT, and get rebuked, this is a sign to let go. But if you let go, it will come back. This is why I trust the spirit molecule.

 

[antrocles]

there is a place when the exhale has ended and the inhale begins. a nano-moment of stillness. it is a moment of death and transition. the moment of the former breath is gone, never to return. the new moment....the fresh new breath....on the fringe. this moment of stillness is the infinite and it is ever with us.
we die with every breath we take. every moment is death and rebirth. it is not death that we fear...but the unknown quality of it. the unknowable concepts of "eternal life" and/or "non-existence". it is the "fear of the fear" that nails both our feet to the floor.

i would contend that death and life are no different...as hard as that is to grasp. like a zebra.....is it white with black stripes or the other way around.....death is the necessary "supporter" of life. the canvas upon which life is painted.

life, in return, is the light that gives meaning to the dark. without one, the other could not be. they are twin spirits.

i do not know what happens when i die. but i do know that i do not know and that makes any fear i have surrounding death null and void. you cannot fear the unknown. you can only fear a negative association you have attached to that unknown. socrates said something very similar to plato as he sat in his cell the eve before his execution. while everyone (including those who would actually kill him the next day) implored him to simply leave his cell (they left the door unlocked) and simply flee, socrates mused at the urgency of their imploring. in as many words, he said, "why would i run away? is death something bad? i would never be so arrogant to assume it is. perhaps, it is even something very good....i'll get to meet great people who died before me and learn new things..."

embracing death. the "real" death. the simple transition that requires letting go of all you think is important and dear...if you can come to a place where you can have that ability or even a fraction of that capacity.....you will know the true gift that DMT has to offer.

it is more than worth working through your occasional "scary trip".

in the case of DMT, the reward is well worth dying for.

WITH LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!

 

[88]

take it easy and be careful, "its not mushroom crack"

brilliant ... that's made my day:lol:

 

[joebono]

Hi joebono,

I feel you. I had a horrible/demented LSD trip when I was young and took 20+ years off from psychedelics.

I have had dozens of positive breakthroughs. Yet, as of the week of Xmas, things have been nothing but a rough ride. I pushed too much in December, then took about a month off. Tried a few stacked low doses (10,15,20 mg) of the cleanest, most pure, most visual/beautiful spice I have ever pulled. More problems. Tried a couple pharma trips yesterday. Much more interesting, but still mroe problems.

I swear, I had mastered the art of surrender, could relax into dying, the whole nine-yards. Then a number of factors came together to create a horrible kind of synergy/cascade within my mind that I still cannot seem to shake. Panic, panic, panic in the core of the limbic system/reptile brain. It seems to bypass the rational mind whether I can understand, rationialize it or make it sane somehow. It seems to bypass my attemps to go with the flow, to let go, to surrender.

Everyone who has been posting about surrender is 100% right. Yet, beyond this, I do not know what the secret is, nor can I gleen it from these posts. Not when dealing with a reaction that is not the dread/delusion/confusion of the deep past but the raw panic of the present.

Having done all this whining, I would like to say unlike what I thought elphologist's post meant, I feel that the spice offers so much more in terms of benefits and opening doors to insight/growth/change. Simply put: It Is Powerful Medicine. Wonderful for those who can take it. I am beginning to believe I may not be one of them.

Regarding your situation, may I humbly suggest that you both give it some serious time and try to be kind to yourself? All of the fears, concerns, reactions, feelings, etc. that are coming up are okay. There's nothing wrong or abnormal about this at all. Think about periods of HEAVY physical and/or mental growth in your life. Seriously man, weren't they always painful in one way or another? Yet, we wind up being better people in the end.

May I humbly suggest that you are not currently in a good situation to make any sort of drastic or life changing decision? Perhaps taking a few weeks or months off would clarify things greatly. Speaking for myself, it definately normalized things tremendously.

Wishing you all the best hoping you will continue to post. . .

Peace & Love,
Pandora

Hey Pandora, I was reading an earlier post of yours where you talk about breathing and your fear. I think I start hyperventilating and gasping for air during the peak and this may play a part in the spiraling panic. From what I remember from my three breakthroughs, it was first an intense realization that I was somehow suffocating or simply forgetting to breathe and then I would compensate by almost convulsive heaving. From there my eyes would open and everything goes to hell.

 

[gammagore]

Well said joe, once the eyes are opened all hell breaks loose, now I make a point to only open my eyes once the visuals behind closed eyes start diminishing.

When the eyes are open and these two realitys start to colide and bend into each other, it's alot scarrier trying to integrate what us going on.

Closed eyes for as long as possible.

 

[transitory]

I was in a place that was familiar, eternal, and always waiting for me. I don't want to go there because it seems like death.

You said it very well for me joebono. I return there every time for months now. It's forever there waiting for me. I cannot yet surrender to that. Sheer terror.

there is a place when the exhale has ended and the inhale begins. a nano-moment of stillness. it is a moment of death and transition. the moment of the former breath is gone, never to return. the new moment....the fresh new breath....on the fringe. this moment of stillness is the infinite and it is ever with us.

The truth of the above description is so beautiful. Antrocles you are gifted in your ability to convey a sense of that which is inexpressible.

 

[Spiceman]

Mind if I ask joebono, exactly what smoking method you used to finally breakthrough. Im curious on the upmost level because of our previous conversations how you found success Peace!

 

[joebono]

Mind if I ask joebono, exactly what smoking method you used to finally breakthrough. Im curious on the upmost level because of our previous conversations how you found success Peace!

I have a glass bubbler type water bong (I don't use water.) In the past I did not let the smoke build up in the larger chamber and I would inhale too soon. I learned to just keep the flame there for a few minutes and let the smoke build and build and build and then inhale that in one big swoop. That does it in one hit.

 

[GreenD]

Hi joebono,

I feel you. I had a horrible/demented LSD trip when I was young and took 20+ years off from psychedelics.

I have had dozens of positive breakthroughs. Yet, as of the week of Xmas, things have been nothing but a rough ride. I pushed too much in December, then took about a month off. Tried a few stacked low doses (10,15,20 mg) of the cleanest, most pure, most visual/beautiful spice I have ever pulled. More problems. Tried a couple pharma trips yesterday. Much more interesting, but still mroe problems.

I swear, I had mastered the art of surrender, could relax into dying, the whole nine-yards. Then a number of factors came together to create a horrible kind of synergy/cascade within my mind that I still cannot seem to shake. Panic, panic, panic in the core of the limbic system/reptile brain. It seems to bypass the rational mind whether I can understand, rationialize it or make it sane somehow. It seems to bypass my attemps to go with the flow, to let go, to surrender.

Everyone who has been posting about surrender is 100% right. Yet, beyond this, I do not know what the secret is, nor can I gleen it from these posts. Not when dealing with a reaction that is not the dread/delusion/confusion of the deep past but the raw panic of the present.

Having done all this whining, I would like to say unlike what I thought elphologist's post meant, I feel that the spice offers so much more in terms of benefits and opening doors to insight/growth/change. Simply put: It Is Powerful Medicine. Wonderful for those who can take it. I am beginning to believe I may not be one of them.

Regarding your situation, may I humbly suggest that you both give it some serious time and try to be kind to yourself? All of the fears, concerns, reactions, feelings, etc. that are coming up are okay. There's nothing wrong or abnormal about this at all. Think about periods of HEAVY physical and/or mental growth in your life. Seriously man, weren't they always painful in one way or another? Yet, we wind up being better people in the end.

May I humbly suggest that you are not currently in a good situation to make any sort of drastic or life changing decision? Perhaps taking a few weeks or months off would clarify things greatly. Speaking for myself, it definately normalized things tremendously.

Wishing you all the best hoping you will continue to post. . .

Peace & Love,
Pandora

1+ but I will say pandora, that it is possible to take it. I'm in your boat too, but I've seen the secret. I don't have it yet, but I've seen it.

I've never had a positive trip, I've never been able to let go - my mind is just not built to relax. It isn't dieing, it isn't being lost - it's the fact that I will become fear. That I will perpetually be in fear. It's the fear of fear. I promise you this is what you feel. You panic to avoid fear.

I've done alot that required me to get over my fear, here is what helped me immensly, and it really has nothing to do with psychadelics, the past, psychological ailments:

Have you ever jumped from a bridge? Cliff dived? Roller coaster?

Stand at the edge of a cliff, look down, smile... and jump.

I really mean it, it's metaphorical, but I truly imagine standing at the end of a cliff, looking at the water beneath me, taking a deep breathe, and leaping with a smile on my face.

Try it, PM me if this doesn't work... or if it does, I would like to know. We're in this boat together. This goes to for you too joebono.

 

[antrocles]

intriguing GreedD. very intriguing....

there may be something to this theory and i'll tell you why- i have dove (head first) off of a 40 ft. waterfall in Brazil...REPEATEDLY. i have bungee jumped from the highest bungee in all of asia (thailand- 120ft.). i have skydived from almost 3,000 ft.

during each and every one of these (well....the waterfall might be a slight exception), i had absolutely NO ADRENALINE before, during or after. i simply knew what it was going to be like before. as i found myself mid-air in the experience, i remember consciously thinking to myself, "yep....pretty much how i imagined it would be."

if any of these things bring about a fear response in you then maybe doing them will help you prove to yourself that you are greater than your fear. i suppose you could do this with pretty much anything you're afraid of (providing you don't actually do something that is rididculously dangerous. there IS a fine line between facing fears and just being reckless).

growing up in san diego there was a series of cliffs in la jolla cove that we as kids would jump off. some of these (dead man's, bearclaw, the "needle") were down-right life-threateningly dangerous. however, once you did any of them ONCE, the fear was immediately cut in half each time until there was simply a knowingness that you would be o.k.

maybe spice is like that. the big difference is this: when you jump off a cliff and you are in the air, there is no possible thing you can do but face what's going on. with spice, the mind can sometimes put up resistance even after that big toke has been taken, held and exhaled. technically you are past the point of no return. i guess it's just the admission to yourself that if you are going to take it in your lungs, you are no longer in control. period. it just needs to somehow have the same "nothing to do but go with it" quality that jumping off the edge comes with. because it's a cliff in your mind, it just takes a little learning curve to accept and surrender the way you would in the physical world.

i like the idea and i like the analogy GD. now if you'll excuse me, i'm going to go jump off something.

L&G!!

 

[shoe]

Antrocles: Your bird is smokin' hot. SMOKING HOT, YOU HEAR?!

but I completely agree with you, don't waste your time with half measures. You and I are alike, pushing the boundaries, proving ourselves to ourself. Being the maximum we can be.
But remember to remain balanced too, I don't want a great guy like you to burn out. Remember to chill and relax too, before going back at it even harder. Cycles of creativity and experience.

 

[Pandora]

Hi Guys,

It's been awhile, but I have jumped off a cliff from a 40-50 foot height into a blue pool of water. It was funny. I was nude with a bunch of hippies and I was hesitating. One of the males said, "Come on Pandora, show some balls!" I pointed down to my genitalia and smiled. He replied, "Show some ovaries." I laughed and jumped off the cliff.

Now, although I have expressed some interest in such activities as bungee jumping or parachuting, the truth is that Nemo Amicus forbids me to do this. We do not forbid each other much but we do have veto power in our relationship and he has vetoed this idea for me in the past . . .

During periods of my past I have explored extreme and edgy behaviors in a search for altered states of consciousness. This frequently involved extreme acts of trust and facing fears . . .

But, joebono is closer to the mark. I think he and I may be in a similar boat. I can only speak for myself.

Hate to say it but "facing my fears" is the lesat of my problems. I must reiterate that I am in my 40's. Not wise, but four decades of experience, good and bad. I can take bad trips and come back for more. I can shake off major trauma in days or weeks rather than months or years these days. I possess a resliliency of character and will that is a result of my life experiences to date.

I have recently made tremendous breakthroughs on my one remaining phobic fear. I still feel the squirt of adrenalin, but can separate myself from it as it all seems so petty and small time compared to what I've been up to lately.

How did my husband and brother put it: You play with fire you may get burned. I nod and reply: You play with fear and you may get panic attacks!

The problem is NOT in the conscious mind, though I am no longer able to get my conscious mind to cooperate with the need to surrender. The root is deeper. The limbic system. What Zarkov (Notes from the Underground) calls the reptile brain.

It had its beginnings in the conscious mind, I'd be the first to admit. But now it is rooted in the core. This has been very fascinating and odd as I never really had any experience with panic or anxiety before. I no longer have symptoms in consensual reality. I am still able to occassionally face a dose but the results are repeating. For me the difficulty comes with closed eye during the build up and at the peak. The panic becomes unmanageable, regardless of trip content. I open my eyes and simply "endure" what should be a very beautiful experience, working on not hyperventilating. I'm caught in a Pavlovian loop.

My only regret: Pushing it so hard last December! Facing my fears, over and over and over, night after night. Programmed/conditioned that reptile brain real good.

I would humbly suggest a break and some major integration time. I personally need to look into breathing exercises and relearn how to let go and not just my self, my life, but also my loves, my possessions. I am back at the very beginning of the base of the learning curve.

antrocles: Loved your post. Let me hazard a guess - were you a hardcore fan of J. Michael Strazynski's "Babylon 5" series in the mid-1990's as Nemo Amicus and I were? I thought of John Sheridan being down the pit between life and death, between tick and tock. . .


Morphane: Wow. What can I say? I was floored by your post. I am neither enlightened nor chosen. If anyone comes close to that in these forums I would have to vote for antrocles. I am simply a middle aged woman who was burned out and looking for some sort of novelty and meaning in life. It's just that I came into this with a full toolbox, i.e. a tremendous background in all types of science fiction and a very well developed imagination. Hell, I don't even need alkaloids to hallucinate.

But, something wonderful has happened. My conversion sticks. I have been shown something wonderful and I will not forget. Regardless of what the future holds I now feel that I can live out the second half of my life and face my death with a feeling of contentment, happiness and satisfaction. Somehow I received the healing I asked for, that I needed. It's just that it came in a very, very surprising form.

Peace & Love,
Pandora

 

[polytrip]

Pandora, i think i know what you mean.
But i do think it's possible to come into contact with that inner reptile brain and to let the highly eveolved ape be in full harmony with the reptile within.

And in a sense there can be controll as well.

There are two important things. First: you cannot always be in full harmony. Whenever you're under some kind of pressure it will simply not work that well and you'll know this because there's always some kind of inner voice that will tell you 'don't take DMT now'. Things in the outside world can simply put you off balance, wich is no disaster because you can easily restore the balance, but those moments are simply not the right moments to take psychedelic substances. They will probably only enlarge the imbalance.

Secondly: You can get this balance to work by meditating and by allowing your mind to be confident.
By being confident, you will come into contact and be one with that inner reptile brain and it also works the other way round: by being into contact with your total self you will become confident of your self.

If you feel genuine self-confidence and no simple overestimation of your own abilities, you simply KNOW you can take any psychedelic and be totally safe.
If you loose that feeling it's no big deal because it can come back later. It just means that something is happening in the outside world that demands your full attention. And if you give those things the full attention they deserve, the balance will restore and you will get that feeling of confidence again.

By trusting the reptile with your heart, you gain controll over it because you become one with it. If you don't trust it, it will smell your fear from a million miles.
If you cannot trust it, than something is going on in the outside world that has scared the dragon and you need to reassure it by dealing with that thing.
Open up for the dragon and the dragon will open up for you.