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I quit. Game over.

Migrated topic.
I'm glad people brought up the smile.

As important as relinquishing control, is the ability to have a sense of humor about it all. It makes a huge difference.
 
Pandora

I understand what you mean by reptile brain fear. I've felt that too. I don't know of any way to get rid of this very primal fear - quite distinct from the anxiety of the ego - but I find I can accept that it is there and sort of distance myself from it ... see it, rather than be engulfed by it. I think this is a bit like meditation, where rather than trying not to think of an elephant, you allow your mind to think of the elephant and then quietly take a step back. Does that make any sense at all?

PS I really enjoy your posts for their wonderful clarity and honesty.
 
Could either of you (or anyone with experience) kindly elaborate upon the "reptile brain" fear? How is it different, where does it come from, more about how you deal with it?

I've had certain moments of totally irrational fear, that seemed to be curbed by celibacy. I've definitely ruffled some deep, possibly species-level hurts, and it seems easier for me to remain calm and deal with them if I'm not distracted by anything sexual.

So, I'd like to hear more to see how much it correlates... It was something I've just been taking my comfortable time to integrate. Things are going well and it's not problematic, but this kind of "core fear" does pop up during ceremonies, and I have to sit with it--which I can do--but it's kind of concerning, for my all-encompassing-consciousness-wide-sense of health... what is it, why is it there, where did it come from? Love + awareness melt it a bit.
 
After my one completely immense pharma overdose, I remember trying to ween myself back onto the medicine after a month off. There would be zero anxiety when dosing however half an hour later when that first yellowing of the vision was manifested I'd get the fear and force purge to abort the trip. For some reason I developed the fear that I may see a snake, which were very common in my trips and I'd let them crawl around inside me to take or bring whatever they please with no anxiety. However then if I saw the faintest outline of a serpent I'd have to shake myself to get rid of it but almost feel trauma around the whole thing. I'm way past that now, mainly because it was irrational. My brother just now happens to have 2 beautiful snakes and I think they're awesome.

I think there's no such thing as irrational fear with psychedelics and there's always a reason for it, but it's very rarely obvious.
 
Quote not working for me but Ms_Manic-Minxx wrote: Could either of you (or anyone with experience) kindly elaborate upon the "reptile brain" fear? How is it different, where does it come from, more about how you deal with it?

Difficult to elucidate, but trying to touch on it a bit for myself: It is deep and fundamental. It completely bypasses the rational mind which contains its own continuum of (intellectual then visceral) fear . . .It is the same physiological cascade as classic beast in the dark jungle after primate "fight or flight." It can come on quickly or build slowly but it is relentless and can wind up blinding. It is classical conditioning - ring the bell and the dog salivates without the presence of the original stimulus that caused the original salivation . . .It is not triggered until the dose has been consumed, the build up is ending and the peak is right there. . .

I have been "dealing" with it by having a split personality! The one giving into the panic and the clinical observer who understands exactly what is going on and that it will come to an end. This keeps me from screaming or overtly freaking out. Nonetheless, my internal experience is powerful, undeniable, and overwhelming.

Hope this helps . . .

Peace & Love,
Pandora
 
Pandora, you sound about 6 months behind where I'm at.

Pandora said:
It had its beginnings in the conscious mind, I'd be the first to admit. But now it is rooted in the core. This has been very fascinating and odd as I never really had any experience with panic or anxiety before. I no longer have symptoms in consensual reality. I am still able to occassionally face a dose but the results are repeating. For me the difficulty comes with closed eye during the build up and at the peak. The panic becomes unmanageable, regardless of trip content. I open my eyes and simply "endure" what should be a very beautiful experience, working on not hyperventilating. I'm caught in a Pavlovian loop.
Click to expand...

The deeper it goes, the more intertwined this fear becomes with rational thought, psychoactives, and sobreity the more dangerous and intense it gets (obviously).

I've been dealing with it for 4 years now, since its first arrival of December 2006, and I have to say, another year (sounds intimidating) and I will be better than I have ever been. As of right now, I am at the peak of my handle on emotion, however it is still there, I am now well over the majority in control, versus that reptile fear, that fear of fear.

I will say, that it is not, I repeat, is not related to my childhood, it is related to me, my genes, my ancestry. I had a father, when I was young who... mmm... emotionally abused me. This was a horrible dilemma during my pre-teen years, 9-13ish, but after that I learned from it, I gained, and I was a smart, intelligent young kid. I hit a bump in the road with a mushroom trip that was so profusely confounding, drove me near the brink.

If something even came up such as biology I would get extreme anxiety via the thought path: biology -> plants -> woods -> fungi -> mushrooms -> oh my god fuck fuck fuck.

It only dawned on me about 10 months ago, that I didn't know what I was running from, that I didn't know why I was so afraid of the trip. And in reality, it was nothing, it was instinct, a fear of something very wrong - yet nothing was actually wrong.

I had some revelations, but by no means were they negative, they were simply associated with my negative mind set, the unwarranted fear of fear.

I smoked DMT multiple times, two times to actually enter hyperspace, a few times to test my product. Simply smelling it would make my gut drop, my heart miss a beat, and a sense of "something is wrong" almost to a naseau. A veil would come over me and it would take some time, some work to clear my view. BUT

The very last time I smoked DMT I did it to prove to myself, that my work has a positive influence, that it is gaining momentum. I sat on my bed, looked out my window, and imagined the day I jumped from a bridge. A smile crept on my face, whether I forced it or whether it was natural it doesn't matter, I envisioned myself, losing hope for safety, letting go, and leaping. I took the hit. It was weak, I entered a tunnel, and there was a large bud from marijuana. The fear came. I backed off, and then I looked. I saw. I smiled, and I exploded, my mind was dispursed with dominance and confidence. The feeling of anxiety was there, but I was working through it, I was simply above it.

What it really showed me, is that I have a fear for alteration. The marijuana bud... I have a fear of not being sober... I'm over it now. I know I'm in control, and so are you. Pandora, I've set your boat to land! We're going to eat coconuts and have seafood on the beach, it'll be just grand. :d
 
Perhaps a way of working with such irrational fears would be to find a "vessel" for them in the rational part of the mind. If there is a gateway between the unconscious and the conscious, then by simply leaving that gate open and observing what arises may lead to a moment when a consciously experienced "mind-form" somehow gets associated with and thereby triggers the unconscious fear. The fear then "pours out" and hyper-charges that specific mind-form with its energy. That's when the panic hits: the relatively mundane experience suddenly gets dark and threatening. A scene is set up, which has its inner psychological logic. Following through this logic may lead to a resolution of the drama, and through that, an understanding of the hitherto unconscious fear.
 
I wonder if this has anything to do with the Amygdala, and maybe there's an amateur brain surgeon or neurologist here who could clarify.

As I understand it, the Amygdala is a small gland underneath the pineal gland, right at the bottom of the brain, and it is your fear factory. This is the baby that is responsible for the fight/flight/fuck response, and a squirt of Amygdala juice can make you do stuff faster than thought. The functions of the brain get more complex in parts that are further out - so the layer on the outside closest to the skull is responsible for speech, reading etc; the amygdala is right at the bottom, and so is probably the oldest part of the brain - the reptile bit.

Seeing as spice is present and may act on the pineal gland, maybe it gets into the Amygdala too, triggering the guts-to-ice fear.
 
Ohhh I wish I had my book, it's not the amygdala, there is a portion of the brain that has been none to create the feeling of "Something is wrong here". The almost "Regret" or "Anxiety" thing... it's not associated with adrenaline in any way - which the amygdala would be.
 
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