Indescribably BAD Trips: Anyway through all this?

[zapped17]

Hello, Nexians. Hope all is well with everyone in the community. Unfortunately, all has DEFINITELY not been well with me. :thumb_dow Lately, I have been experiencing quite some bad trips with dmt (2-for-2 over the past 2 weeks), the last one of which was profoundly, indescribably, terrible and hellish.

In an attempt to keep redundancies on the forum to a minimum, I have been scouring the nexus for any trip-reports describing bad trips of a similar character to mine, in hopes of finding some useful advice therein. So far, I haven't been successful, which has lead me to believe that my recent experiences on dmt are not only exceedingly bad, but UNIQUELY and SINGULARLY BAD.....So, I post here in the hopes of hearing from someone who can relate to these experiences, or (importantly) offer some real good advice/help.

Unfortunately, I feel it necessary to be as detailed as possible - I desperately need to vent this info. I REALLY REALLY appreciate all of those who will bear with me:

As always, in preparation of imbibing myself with spice, I have painstakingly taken all the necessary precautions to ensure a safe, informative/meaningful trip. In retrospect, I can't seem to pinpoint any faults or errors on my part: I am physically fit (jog 8 miles almost daily, weight lift, etc); practice a eating a healthy diet; been off SSRIs for about a month; attend to and invest in my daily consensus-reality life; ensure a safe, comfortable setting in which to administer the substance; etc. Furthermore, on all the occasions that begot a bad experience, I had only smoked (via a GVG) 30-40 mg of pure, white nndmt. I have followed this exact procedure a handful of times in the past, and had only experienced truly extraordinary/mind-expanding/wondrous things. So why the abrupt change recently?

Words truly fail me in an attempt to articulate these bad experiences. I cannot emphasize just HOW BAD and utterly hellish these experiences are. I am not, by any standards, feeble minded or cowardly: throughout the course of my life (in consensus reality) I have witnessed some truly horrifying, atrocious things - but I have NEVER been directly subjected to anything like this. I feel as if I am being punished - tormented - for some unspeakable sin I have committed, and which I have no memory of. I cannot conceive of a worse hell, fitting even for a monstrosity like adolph hitler.

Structurally, these trips all follow the same succession of events in a nearly identical way. It's like having a full blown panic attack....in the more tenebrous regions of the dmt hyperspace :shock: There's too much goddamn stimuli to process. It's overwhelmingly intense.

The only thing I can relate the environment of these experience to is the Hyperspace Lexicon's entry on "Folding Rooms". These hyperdimensional, geometric spaces fold into and collapse on one another - around me, through me, within me - at warp speed. It's extremely impersonal and violent, and it makes no difference whether my eyes or open or closed. At this point, I realize there's nothing I can do: it's just "happening", and I am completely, helplessly in the throes of it. Exacerbating the trip now, are thoughts of vomiting all over myself, hyperventilation, heart attack, seizure, "serotonin syndrome", my death. I try to avoid these negative thoughts on subsequent trips when this happens, but it's almost inevitable.

At this point, I can hear zany, childish circus music suffusing me - again, wailing at high speed. Same f***in tune every time. I can see the little dmt elf-things engaged in their activities (at rapid speed), only they're not at all like the "elves" I have encountered previously. These things are are very impersonal, and perceived as unintelligent and unconscious - they look and behave like mechanistic gears/tinker toys more than anything else (idk why I just called them elf-things - that's not apt) and go through the same motions on each bad trip.

Next, from this backdrop, hideous demonic hyperdimensional faces spring forth at me. Tubes/rods/maces/jagged glass objects are stuffed down my throat, deeper and deeper, in and out (do I need to mention the sexual imagery here?), and just when I think it can'y get any worse, it does.

Toward the end of this eternity, when I'm thoroughly insane, everything - all sensations - starts to collapse forward and in on itself in a single point. This is accompanied by a a disturbing, guttural groaning noise (produced by me?), and finally, my entire self pukes, or rather my entire self is puked into this singularity. And then its over, just like that, and I am gasping for breath, crying in relief, singing to console myself. Both times, I have been reduced to a pathetic, frightened animal.

Fortunately, I forget all of this pretty rapidly. However, today (a week later), when I vaped a measly 15 grams trying to coax myself back into everything, I was overwhelmed with anxiety and nearly panicked at the mere threshold effects and closed-eye, way-pre-breakthrough geometries. An attenuated memory of the hell described above entered the periphery of my awareness. I could sense that I was on the brink of that hellish place again, like it was a dark cloud hovering inches above my head.

Well, this is where I'm at. I'm a novice when it comes to dmt: a few sub-breakthroughs, a couple breakthroughs, and a couple eternities in hell. Before these latter experiences, I was astounded by the realities dmt showed me. There is so much to explore, so much knowledge and information to gain - and I had only just gotten my feet wet.

However, I'm not sure I'd ever touch dmt again if I knew I would have to experience that hell again. Perhaps - but only if angelic aliens, God, and Nirvana awaits me on the other side

Thanks for listening

Uhhhm...any help?

 

[VIII]

How was your mindset before going into the trips? Have you had anything new added to your life since previous positive trips?

I have also had a very uncomfortable time in those rooms. For me, I was constantly shifted and folded around some never-ending hyperspace conveyor belt. My experience differs in that I would stop on certain levels and enter a new 'dream' each time. Like I was walking into the lives(eyes) of many different people then ripped out and shot back onto the conveyor belt.

This trip and its sensations have stuck with me. Trips since then that carried similar sensations were all traced back to a single mindset for me. I experience these trips when I am not rested enough, moving too quickly(mentally), and so on. I am pretty well aware of my state of mind, but I can test myself by doing breathing exercises and meditation before tripping and then guaging my mindset.

There maybe many more variables to account for, but I have avoided negative experiences since adhering to this method. Hope you may find some help in it.

 

[corpus callosum]

"Only 30-40mg via the GVG".

^^If you're taking it in one breath then your dosages are probably too high, certainly beyond 35ish mgs.30mg can be pretty heavy, but manageable, but anything beyond this can be unnecessarily taxing to be indulged in regularly.I would suggest trying 25mg, which in light of your expectations might feel a bit tame, but from this starting point you can work up to a dose that suits you.One breath is definitely the way to go as generally speaking its easier to get a feel for which part of the 'ballpark' any particular dose will take you.

 

[Eliyahu]

Not sure if you have run across these threads but you may find them relevant

esoteric self defense

Risks of doing Aya improperly

 

[samurai87]

Wow.. okay...

I can feel your anxieties around this. Ive heard a few times now on this site the mentioning of machine-like elf-things? Ive never seen these myself. And i am intrigued about any information anyone might be able to input about 'them'?

Im not sure how much help anyone can give you. My guess is you are obviously trying to be shown something. There may be some blockage somewhere in your thinking or in the way you percieve yourself, others and/or the world you live within.

The hardest, but most important thing to remember is to relaxx as much as you can. Maintain a strong sense of yourself (your'self' on a universal level - not a 'personal' level) - but try to go with the experience as much as possible and dont fight what happens. Whatever is happening, in one way or another, is a product of your own brain. Some people have these intense experiences and get scared off doing dmt ever again. Personally, i like to work through things and get to the bottom of any issues. But this may not be immediately applicable to someone who doesn't have a very firm mental grounding. I really dont know where you stand with this.

Every time i take dmt now i keep in mind that i am doing this to have fun, and to learn and grow - mentally, physically and spiritually. Every intense experience i go through, by the end of it, i always realise that there was nothing really to worry about. The experience is out of our hands to a degree - and is already taken care of by a 'higher design' if you like.

I dont think anyone can truely interpret your trip for you, unless you went to the amazon and sat with an authentic shaman traveller.

As i mentioned though its most likely something that your personality is surfacing for you. Visualise what you want, and keep digging with a positive spot light on your head. And never forget that everything is always ''all good'' - and there is truely nothing to be afraid of.

Best of luck my friend

 

[arcanum]

"been off SSRIs for about a month" don't know how long you took them for, but I've read that long term use can cause reregulation of certain brain receptors, in other words they mess with your brain! I've taken plenty of AD's in my time but SSRI's never.

Maybe if you wait 6-12 months and try again it'll be good. I'm wondering if it's just the sense of dread and panic that makes the visions seem so hellish, like someone with panic attacks going to watch a horror movie.
If you really have to go there ( hyperspace) soon, consider tranquilizers, yes I know it's frowned on here, but they do have their place occasionaly for very special situations .

 

[SeekerOfTruths]

"been off SSRIs for about a month" don't know how long you took them for, but I've read that long term use can cause reregulation of certain brain receptors, in other words they mess with your brain! I've taken plenty of AD's in my time but SSRI's never.

Maybe if you wait 6-12 months and try again it'll be good. I'm wondering if it's just the sense of dread and panic that makes the visions seem so hellish, like someone with panic attacks going to watch a horror movie.
If you really have to go there ( hyperspace) soon, consider tranquilizers, yes I know it's frowned on here, but they do have their place occasionaly for very special situations .

SSRI's can for sure cause some weird effects for quite awhile after getting off of them, the one and last time I ever went on them getting off of them was torture. It may take another few weeks/months before you are truly back to baseline from the SSRI.

I've had a negative DMT experiences, and afterwords I found they would repeat really easily if I even slightly feared them repeating. I had to relax and accept that anything could occur, and to just sit back, enjoy and experience the odd workings of my mind. I guess this really depends on what you think the DMT experience is, for people like me who believe its all a hallucination this rings true, but if I believed that DMT was something else, I guess I would be under their will?

 

[Purges]

Well, this may or may not help, but I have experienced similar things before as well... Most notable was probably this "Hyperslap" that I experienced back in February. It was one of the hardest, most frightening, confusing and draining things I have ever experienced. An ordeal in the true sense of the word. Not something I wish on anyone, but certainly something that every DMT using psychonaut will have to endure at least once. This stuff is not a toy, and if used improperly will show you just how real it can be :twisted: (not saying you were using it improperly, but I was in that instance)

I have had considerable anxiety regarding spice following that experience (and a couple of other 'bad' ones), but have found that ingesting caapi extract before hand really helps smooth out and open up the experience. For me anyway, DMT is only part of the equation, my advice is to get Mama Aya on your side and to drop your dose. 40mg is a BIG dose, the kind of thing I would only need to experience maybe once a year if that. 20-30mg is my normal bracket, and if taken in one lungful and held a full 20 secs, I know I am in for one hell of a ride, every time. After that experience I questioned whether I should continue experimenting with DMT, and I decided to do so, because "Fear is the mind killer" and we can't be doing with that can we?! So I went back to experimenting with more cautious doses, and ended up having an experience that was so unbelievably CUTE!!!! that it brought me to tears. There is certainly a polarity within the DMT world and I am currently working at finding ways of navigating safely (ie without panic attacks etc) through these 'less than pleasant' realms. I am still undecided whether these are amplified projections of our own dark side, or something external. The feeling of REALITY can be hard to shake when these terrible things happen.

I wish you all the best in further explorations!

P x

 

[DeDao]

.

 

[Felnik]

Dude I had a very similar thing happen to me a few years back . That geometric fast folding thing all in black and white . It was the single scariest experience of my entire life . Gasping for air feeling like a couldn't breath . I hear you totally .

It was like some evil force taking hold and pulling you in to some kind of eternal hell. The feeling I had in the moment was a sense of splintering into a million fragments .it felt as though I would remain this way forever.

I have never approached spice in the same way since . After a very long break I eventually returned . I am always super careful with the dose and never get lulled into a false sense of security . I approach it as one would approach large ocean waves always.

I have since had some amazing experiences and always ease in with dosing . I use caapi vine and leaf in conjunction always .

I only do it in nature in grounding environments .

I suggest taking An extended break. And re-evaluating your entire approach.

Be well

 

[daedaloops]

Exacerbating the trip now, are thoughts of vomiting all over myself, hyperventilation, heart attack, seizure, "serotonin syndrome", my death.
...
Next, from this backdrop, hideous demonic hyperdimensional faces spring forth at me. Tubes/rods/maces/jagged glass objects are stuffed down my throat, deeper and deeper, in and out

I think this is atleast a part of your problem right here. It's like when those negative thoughts kick in, it's a thought-spiral that will not end until it has reached hell. Sometimes in there even if things are completely fine I suddenly get a thought like "Oh thank god I'm not experiencing anything horrible.", and exactly because of that thought you start to think about some horrible things and it doesn't stop until you've found your absolutely most horrifying nightmare phobia. And that chain of thought happens so fast and linked that it feels like it's completely out of your control.

But what you should try to remember is to not bring all that human baggage with you, like "panic attack" or "serotonin syndrome" or "death". There's absolutely nothing negative about death, just your human interpretation about it. Also there's nothing negative about tubes/rods/maces but you see them as negative objects because they are "raping" your throat. But in fact they are just objects and the act of raping is just repetitive movement. It doesn't mean anything by itself, but it can have a million different interpretations.

In short: Everything is about perspective, and you should not give "good" things some kind of a special status over "bad" things. They are both a very important part of life. And if you're into psychedelics you WILL experience both of them. If you just want "good" things from psychedelics then you are tricking yourself.

 

[zapped17]

Thanks so much everyone for the thoughtful replies. A lot of good advice here - really appreciate it.

^^If you're taking it in one breath then your dosages are probably too high, certainly beyond 35ish mgs.30mg can be pretty heavy, but manageable, but anything beyond this can be unnecessarily taxing to be indulged in regularly.I would suggest trying 25mg, which in light of your expectations might feel a bit tame, but from this starting point you can work up to a dose that suits you.One breath is definitely the way to go as generally speaking its easier to get a feel for which part of the 'ballpark' any particular dose will take you.

Yeah, I was trying to take it all in in one inhalation. I'm surprised many think this range is too much (I'll heed this advice though, and will definitely be dropping the dose down from now on). Interestingly, when I first began experimenting with dmt a few months ago, I dosed much higher on a couple of occasions (50 mg via GVG), and had experienced my first glorious breakthroughs :want: . However, during this time, I was also on 150+ mg of SSRI medication on a daily basis. I've read some speculation that SSRIs in conjunction with dmt have a nullifying effect on the substance. While my experience confirms this (one time I properly vaped about 40, and got nothing whatsoever), I'm not sure I understand the neural mechanisms behind why this nullifying effect occurs. If anything, considering the action of SSRIs, I would think the opposite should occur.

I have had considerable anxiety regarding spice following that experience (and a couple of other 'bad' ones), but have found that ingesting caapi extract before hand really helps smooth out and open up the experience. For me anyway, DMT is only part of the equation, my advice is to get Mama Aya on your side and to drop your dose.

I've never had any experience with ayahuasca decoctions or just plain ayahuasca brew. I've very much wanted to but I have been incredibly hesitant - much more so than with any other drug. The primary reason why is because ayahuasca induces an enduring, 6+ hour altered state (presence of MAOIs in caapi), and I shudder at the prospect of finding myself locked into one of those hellish realms for the duration of the experience. The other reason is because I have been on SSRIs for so long (off now for a month, though), and, as we all know, the combo of SSRIs and MAOIs (reversible or irreversible) can be quite dangerous, potentially fatal.

Either way, SSRIs are bad overall - they merely dampen the effects of anxiety/depression without resolving the issues. When you ween off them, all those familiar negative thoughts and depressive moods resurface into one's awareness and linger there. Adding dmt to the equation, I may have unwittingly set myself up for, how you say, :twisted:

@Purges: You say ingesting caapi extract before hand "smooths things out", so to speak. I didn't know this was the case. If I may: what extract do you ingest, how much, and how long before bringing dmt into the experience?

 

[zapped17]

I can feel your anxieties around this. Ive heard a few times now on this site the mentioning of machine-like elf-things? Ive never seen these myself. And i am intrigued about any information anyone might be able to input about 'them'?

Well, I don't want the things I described above to be misconstrued as the infamous "dmt elves". I've had two breakthrough experiences in the past where I encountered the "classic" dmt self-transorming elves (I wrote about this in a trip report somewhere...) They are not at all the same as the aforementioned "things" I described in my bad trip (although the latter do bear a very slight resemblance in some ineffable way). The classic elven entities of the dmt hyperspace are astonishingly awesome, intriguing, mischievous little dudes, perceived as intelligent, and exhibiting an interest in YOU. I don't want to slander THESE guys :lol: !

 

[zzaacckk3]

set, setting and mind set are most important thing before going into a trip

 

[5 Dimensional Nick]

Exacerbating the trip now, are thoughts of vomiting all over myself, hyperventilation, heart attack, seizure, "serotonin syndrome", my death.
...
Next, from this backdrop, hideous demonic hyperdimensional faces spring forth at me. Tubes/rods/maces/jagged glass objects are stuffed down my throat, deeper and deeper, in and out

I think this is atleast a part of your problem right here. It's like when those negative thoughts kick in, it's a thought-spiral that will not end until it has reached hell. Sometimes in there even if things are completely fine I suddenly get a thought like "Oh thank god I'm not experiencing anything horrible.", and exactly because of that thought you start to think about some horrible things and it doesn't stop until you've found your absolutely most horrifying nightmare phobia. And that chain of thought happens so fast and linked that it feels like it's completely out of your control.

But what you should try to remember is to not bring all that human baggage with you, like "panic attack" or "serotonin syndrome" or "death". There's absolutely nothing negative about death, just your human interpretation about it. Also there's nothing negative about tubes/rods/maces but you see them as negative objects because they are "raping" your throat. But in fact they are just objects and the act of raping is just repetitive movement. It doesn't mean anything by itself, but it can have a million different interpretations.

In short: Everything is about perspective, and you should not give "good" things some kind of a special status over "bad" things. They are both a very important part of life. And if you're into psychedelics you WILL experience both of them. If you just want "good" things from psychedelics then you are tricking yourself.

SPOT ON.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

This is obviously an older thread that got bumped, but I didn't read it when it was new. Chances are the OP will not see these new comments, or at least not for some time, but I figure I will add a few things.

1st, as the author of the Lexicon Folding Rooms entry... as well as the Hyperslap and Shut-Out entries, among others... as well as an entire section about entities... I can say that I know exactly what you are talking about.

I have spoken a lot about these dark entity experiences and how one can defend oneself... as well as why they occur. Instead of repeating what I just wrote though on another similar thread, I will just link my comments here. How to "combat" malevolent entities in hyperspace? - DMT Experiences - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I wish I could say that journeying to hyperspace was perfectly safe and foolproof... alas, I can not. If you play with this stuff long enough, you will have horrific encounters. The truly disturbing thing about that, though, is that when you do come back from a journey remembering this kind of thing... you usually also remember the other times that it happened and you simply forgot or blanked the memory. All the more disturbing when you realize you are dealing with very cunning telepathic entities that can actually will you to forget them.

:shock:

Thankfully, you can defeat these parasitic and malevolent baddies. It is possible to avoid these experiences as well. Hopefully you will be in a better position to protect yourself next time.

If you just randomly zapped yourself into some random wilderness here on Êarth, you might have a number of astoundingly beautiful trips, but you would probably end up in a mosquito swamp or a fetid marsh at some point as well. Same thing goes for Hyperspace... especially if you don't know how to navigate.

Be well. I hope you have or will overcome this.

HF

 

[G]

I would recommend Icaros to help tune your trip. This one in particular
{http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwrsygwbRBo}