Instant ayahuasca little lightening bolt TEK

[Transform]

I'm kinda more interested by the cactussy-looking action looming in the background

The precipitate at the bottom looks pale and kind of sparkly... Make sure you don't throw anything away just yet!

 

[Sicho Naut]

I'm kinda more interested by the cactussy-looking action looming in the background

The precipitate at the bottom looks pale and kind of sparkly... Make sure you don't throw anything away just yet!

Haha, it's our humongous San Pedro, lurking curiously at its colleague... He has a bunch of little kids in separate pots spread throughout the house as well!

 

[Sicho Naut]

If anyone is down for a little experiment, trying making a simple brew from Mimosa or Acacia, and then completely freeze and thaw the brew a few times or so, which will precipitate/crash out all the tannins and plant gunk and oils and such from the brew and cause them to collect at the bottom of the container. The issue with this is that when filtering the liquid, sure a lot of plant gunk can be filtered out pretty easily but tannins can still merge back into the water while it's going through the filter, unless you suck up the clean tea portion with like a syringe and don't disturb the sediment at the bottom. I do this with my teas as to make them palatable, and it can be very effective in producing an easily drinkable Mimosa or Acacia tea, but it's also crossed my mind to try it for extraction as well, although my DMT extraction game isn't nearly as good as other people's and so i'm still getting the hang of it and for the most part i just go with oral DMT-containing plant teas or a full spectrum 99% iso alcohol freebased oil evaporated onto herbs for Changa/enhanced-leaf and haven't really dove into extraction in awhile to test it out, my line of thinking is that it should make a cleaner extraction and with reduced risk of emulsion and nothing in the way of like plant fats or what not as ime the more freezing/thawing you do the more all of the gunk including the fats/oils crash out and fall to the bottom of the container which then the clean portion of tea can be filtered/decanted/siphoned away from the sediment at the bottom.

Sabnock, how many freeze/thaws do you usually do? Pics below are the brew after the first thaw and after the last one (fifth); after thaw 3 only very small amounts of plant matter dropped out. The brew does remain darker at the bottom than it does at the top, though.

Also @Transform : In another thread a post of yours seemed to suggest that you de-tanninized your vodka tincture (mentioned earlier in this thread) and consumed it. (Can't find the post.) Or did I misinterpret? If not, can you tell us about the results?

 

[Sabnock1990]

I pretty much do as many freeze/thaws as i need to get a clean tea, usually say 3 to 5 freezes, just depends on how gunky the teas are, but i brew in bulk so usually 100 grams of Mimosa or Acacia. Ime even after freezing/thawing/filtering a few good times there can still be stuff crashing out or tannins slipping through the filter, so what i usually do is freeze/thaw/filter a few good times, then on the last freeze/thaw i'll suck up the clean tea with a syringe to get it away from any remaining sediment, then i'll add some more water to the sediment and stir and re-freeze/thaw the sediment-containing water then i'll suck it up and re-do that a few more times until i'm confident i've gotten any DMT that may have gotten stuck in the crud, then i combine all the clean liquids and reduce down to final concentration, and the resulting tea tastes pretty much like water, i'll pour off a dose and dilute it with some extra water for a cup of tea, warm it up, add some sweetness (though that's optional) and then drink it, and it's very palatable surprisingly. As for the color, i wouldn't worry about that too much, ime the color can be clearer or it can be dark, doesn't really seem to say much about potency or what not ime.

 

[Transform]

Also @Transform : In another thread a post of yours seemed to suggest that you de-tanninized your vodka tincture (mentioned earlier in this thread) and consumed it. (Can't find the post.) Or did I misinterpret? If not, can you tell us about the results?

The tannin removal of MHRB vodka extract proceeds exactly like in the Robert Murray Smith video. The ABV in the range of vodka was found by Chinese researchers to be optimal for tannin precipitation (which is rather fortunate, really!) A brief test, performed by washing the filtered-off tannins with 70% ABV grain spirit revealed that the higher percentage alcohol causes coloured material to redissolve from the precipitate.

A sample of the tannin-free tincture was tested as an adjunct to Syrian rue tea and a smooth effect was noted, albeit possibly somewhat delayed in onset compared to using purified DMT. This may have been due to the participant falling asleep and then waking up again once the effects had commenced. As a word of caution, the waking into the jurema visions seemed to have a pre-convulsive edge to it. In that respect it may be wise if this method was reserved for those who have some considerable experience of meditation and conscious control of the autonomic nervous system. Then again, with a sample size of one this isn't at all cut-and-dusted.

 

[Sicho Naut]

Well, can't draw conclusion w/r/t the potency of the purified brew I made by freeze/thawing as I had an early purge, before my body had absorbed all the actives.
What I can say: The AE residue based on 7,5g MHRB weighed 2g before purification and 1g after. Hopefully of the 1g material that was removed, little to none was DMT.

 

[Transform]

The AE residue based on 7,5g MHRB

AE = Alcohol Extracted? Alcool éthylique? Or something else?

 

[Sicho Naut]

AE = Alcohol Extracted? Alcool éthylique? Or something else?

AE = Alcohol extraction. (// common acronym CWE = cold water extraction).

 

[Sicho Naut]

I would still recommend doing three solvent runs on a given portion of of bark, using fresh solvent each time.

Is there somehow a difference in, say, doing one 'soak' with 300ml of alcohol versus three 'soaks' with 100ml of alcohol?

EDIT: With 'soak' here meaning the MHRB sits in grain alcohol at room temp for a month or so and is swirled around regularly.

 

[Transform]

Is there somehow a difference in, say, doing one 'soak' with 300ml of alcohol versus three 'soaks' with 100ml of alcohol?

EDIT: With 'soak' here meaning the MHRB sits in grain alcohol at room temp for a month or so and is swirled around regularly.

You will pull more using 3x100mL than with 1x300mL. Even if more dissolves into the 300mL than can fit into 100mL (which, incidentally, with ethanol doesn't make that much of a difference because of the very high solubility of DMT in that solvent), assuming the volume of solvent is sufficient still to be separated easily from the plant material, the succession of three smaller washes will result in more of the target product being recovered overall.

In this case, it's mostly about the volume of liquid that remains trapped in the plant material each time. Let's say that's, maybe 10mL (just as an illustration).
With 300mL solvent, 'n' amount of DMT dissolves into it to give a solution of strength n/300, of which 290mL can be recovered. This means you have recovered 290*(n/300) = 29/30 of the possible total amount. This is roughly 96%. The amount remaining trapped in the plant material is therefore 1/30 of the total

With the first 100mL, an n/100 strength solution is formed, of which 90mL is recovered.
Skipping the (easy) calculation, this is 9/10 of the full amount, and n/10 remains trapped.
For the second pull, adding a further 100mL to the plant material forms an n/(110*10) = n/1100 strength solution. All 100mL of this is recovered, representing a further 100n/1100 = n/11, that is, 1/11 of the full amount. The trapped amount is 10mL again, containing (n/10)-(n/11) = (11n-10n)/110 = n/110 of the total amount.
The third pull dilutes the 10mL of trapped solution once more, to 1/11 of its initial concentration, and 10/11 of it gets recovered:
(1/11)*(n/110) = n/1210 remains trapped in the plant material, which means that 1209n/1210 has been recovered over all in the 290mL of solution, and this is clearly more than the 29n/30 obtained with the single pull, being well over 99%.
(1209/1210)-(29/30) = ((3*1209)-(121*29))/(3*1210) [tens cancel out as a common factor] = (3627-3509)/3630 = 118/3630 yield improvement with three pulls - very roughly, a three percentage point improvement in yield efficiency.

Looked at the other way, n*((1/30)-(1/1210)) ~= n*((121-3)/3630) = 118n/3630 of additional material has been recovered, which (very fortunately) is the same result as the previous calculation.

With solvent saturation, the calculation becomes a little more complicated and has been covered in some thread or other about the number of naphtha pulls it's worth doing. Fortunately, this doesn't apply to this particular combination of solvent and solute, so I'll only dig up the relevant thread if you fail to find it yourself

The other thing being, with your slow, cold pulls it may not be worth tripling the extraction time for a 3% yield improvement

 

[Sicho Naut]

Thanks again @Transform

@Sabnock1990: With how much water do you freeze/thaw in the case of a 100g MHRB brew? Is there an ideal amount in the case of water?

 

[Sabnock1990]

Thanks again @Transform

@Sabnock1990: With how much water do you freeze/thaw in the case of a 100g MHRB brew? Is there an ideal amount in the case of water?

I try to reduce all my boils from 100 grams down to about 1 to 2 liters, then freeze/thaw/filter them a few good times, then i separate the clean portion of liquid from any liquid at the bottom with remaining crud, then i'll dilute the little bit of liquid with crud, stir, re-freeze/thaw/filter a few more times until i make sure i get all possible DMT away from the crud, and then i'll combine all the clean portions and reduce down to final concentration although since i usually like to sip on my Mimosa or Acacia tea i'll usually leave it a bit diluted at about a liter for 100 grams, whereas if i wanted it more concentrated i would usually do it at about 500mls for 100 grams.

 

[Sicho Naut]

one option would be to acidify the tincture before freezing.

At the moment I have a 60g MHRB (96% alcohol) tincture evaporating. I plan to redissolve it in 0,5l of water and was thinking of adding some citric acid to it- but I am clueless as to what an appropriate amount of citric acid would be?
Note also that I intend to evaporate the water at the end of the freeze/thaw process, not sure if this matters or not.

 

[Transform]

At the moment I have a 60g MHRB (96% alcohol) tincture evaporating. I plan to redissolve it in 0,5l of water and was thinking of adding some citric acid to it- but I am clueless as to what an appropriate amount of citric acid would be?
Note also that I intend to evaporate the water at the end of the freeze/thaw process, not sure if this matters or not.

If you're planning to evaporate after freezing, it's better to use a volatile acid like vinegar or HCl.

 

[Transform]

Slight rewind:

Also @Transform : In another thread a post of yours seemed to suggest that you de-tanninized your vodka tincture (mentioned earlier in this thread) and consumed it. (Can't find the post.) Or did I misinterpret? If not, can you tell us about the results?

Maybe in this thread:

Extracting DMT with ethanol, vinegar and sodium carbonate

skoobysnax, true. For pharma you'd want a dmt-salt. Regarding freebase creation for smoking, call me a purist, but I don't like the idea of some base left in spice, let alone calcium /sodium salts. I also prefer not to evaporate non food grade solvents like lab grade IPA down to obtain yield.

forum.dmt-nexus.me

Not sure if I've discussed it elsewhere besides here and there.

 

[Sicho Naut]

urified DMT. This may have been due to the participant falling asleep and then waking up again once the effects had commenced. As a word of caution, the waking into the jurema visions seemed to have a pre-convulsive edge to it. In that respect it may be wise if this method was reserved for those who have some considerable experience of meditation and consc

Some further questions:

• How 'pure' was the lime treated tincture as compared to the not de-tanninized vodka tincture? How was the experience in terms of nausea/body load?
• How much lime did you end up using? Your earlier speculations in this thread would suggest 30g lime for a 60g MHRB tincture, did this prove to be accurate?
• EDIT: And how about potency? How much of the tincture did you consume (with how much rue tea?) and do you think DMT was lost during the precipitation?

Hopefully @Denverevolution will be reporting back as well.

 

[Transform]

Some further questions:

• How 'pure' was the lime treated tincture as compared to the not de-tanninized vodka tincture? How was the experience in terms of nausea/body load?
• How much lime did you end up using? Your earlier speculations in this thread would suggest 30g lime for a 60g MHRB tincture, did this prove to be accurate?
• EDIT: And how about potency? How much of the tincture did you consume (with how much rue tea?) and do you think DMT was lost during the precipitation?

Hopefully @Denverevolution will be reporting back as well.

Whoops, lost track of this one! Some of the details are a bit vague, maybe in order to encourage experimentation and use of calculation methods Definitely not because of being disorganised and endlessly distracted, no sir.

The lime-treated tincture is a transparent yellow colour, and has the delightful floral smell of nearly pure DMT. The original tincture straight from the bark without any treatment looks exactly as you might expect it to do, so dark purple that it's effectively opaque, and with a much earthier aroma. The effects of the untreated tincture were not tested, but the treated stuff seemed pretty clear an clean. It may be possible to give a report on vaporisation of the evaporated extract soon, I'll try to ensure that gets recorded here in due course.

Right now I do not have access to any records concerning the amount of lime used but I'll be sure to add that detail once it becomes available.

6mL of the tincture was sufficient to produce a noticeable effect of brief duration (although it will have started while the subject was asleep, and thus some of the chronology will have been "lost"); the amount of rue seed used was around 2g but with an ongoing background level from daily rue microdosing.

 

[Sicho Naut]

6mL of the tincture was sufficient to produce a noticeable effect of brief duration (although it will have started while the subject was asleep, and thus some of the chronology will have been "lost"); the amount of rue seed used was around 2g but with an ongoing background level from daily rue microdosing.

So, 6ml/300ml tincture ~ 60g MHRB would be 1,2g MHRB worth of tincture?
Sounds promising, then!-- Although the post-lime tincture was probably a bit less than 300ml?

I have some lime coming in the mail, will probably be trying this approach in August somewhere.

EDIT:
Just 2 more questions:
-I assume rum would work just as well? Reason I ask is that I have some rum in my cabinet that will never otherwise consume. (It's 37,5%).
-300ml vodka for 60g MHRB strikes me as a low amount of volume? How did you arrive at this amount?

 

[Transform]

So, 6ml/300ml tincture ~ 60g MHRB would be 1,2g MHRB worth of tincture?
Sounds promising, then!-- Although the post-lime tincture was probably a bit less than 300ml?

I have some lime coming in the mail, will probably be trying this approach in August somewhere.

EDIT:
Just 2 more questions:
-I assume rum would work just as well? Reason I ask is that I have some rum in my cabinet that will never otherwise consume. (It's 37,5%).
-300ml vodka for 60g MHRB strikes me as a low amount of volume? How did you arrive at this amount?

If this were your only option I would advise using white rum rather than a darker-coloured variety if anything, but rum has a distinctive flavour and some of those aroma compounds may react with components of MHRB, whereas vodka is, by definition, neutral grain spirit, i.e. it has minimal levels of these 'congeners', so it's your call but I'd still recommend using vodka.

There's always the possibility I may have recalled the figures incorrectly, but the experiment was designed around commonly available kitchen equipment. After adding sufficient vodka to cover the bark with a generous layer of liquid, plus the subsequent rinses of the bark after the cooking process, the total amount of liquid collected was 300mL. More will have been used in the process because of evaporative losses and the amount that gets held up by the bark, The rinses are intended to improve recovery while minimising the overall volume of solvent used in comparison to a simple cook-and-filter process.

These details have not been finalised, hence the absence of a formal write-up. It would be fair to call this a work in progress, were it not on indefinite hold for the summer!

 

[Sicho Naut]

Running ahead of myself here, but I am wondering also whether the post-lime tincture would be suitable for rectal administration?
I.e.: You pipette out your desired dose, let the alcohol evaporate and rectally administer the remaining liquid with a needleless syringe?