Instant ayahuasca little lightening bolt TEK

[blig-blug]

Appreciate the response, blig-blug. The Tnt tech appears to be undocumented? I'm needing things to be rather clearly stated and simple at this stage

There's no "official" write-up, but it really is as simple as that summary suggests. If you have any doubts about any of the steps you can just ask here, and @Transform or me (or some other of the people that have tried it) will be happy to help.

You can always do the simple approach suggested in the OP here, the main difference is that it will contain the Mimosa tannins, which are rather harsh on the stomach. The vodka+lime tincture is much cleaner.

 

[Pyramids]

There's no "official" write-up, but it really is as simple as that summary suggests. If you have any doubts about any of the steps you can just ask here, and @Transform or me (or some other of the people that have tried it) will be happy to help.

You can always do the simple approach suggested in the OP here, the main difference is that it will contain the Mimosa tannins, which are rather harsh on the stomach. The vodka+lime tincture is much cleaner.

Ok, again, thanks for replying. I've had quite a struggle with ayahuasca and jurema wIne in terms of nausea, so I'm all in on trying to reduce that, when possible.

I do have a few questions right off the mark, if either you or @Transform have some time to spare.

One thing is that this appears to be extremely quick (at least the MHRB side of it), basically a 1 day extraction process. I'm guessing that's due to the lime, but wanted to make sure I was reading the tek summary correctly. It also differs in that the OP's tek involved reducing it to goo and then re-saturating it, where as TNT just gets reduced down to a manageable liquid, guessing that is due to the variation in ABV...

Also, my recipe has some holes that I would deeply appreciate filling in:

*******************************************
MHRB

100 grams of powdered MHRB
35oz Vodka (40% abv)
_?___ calcium hydroxide (how much)


1. Place MHRB in Vodka for __?___ hours (how long)
2. Strain and slowly add calcium hydroxide stirring well
3. Decant and get rid of the tannins and lime (how to? best method?)
4. Reduce liquid (how to? best method?)

CAAPI

100 grams of Banisteriopsis Caapi
35oz Vodka (correct amount?)

1. Soak Caapi in vodka for 4 weeks
2. Reduce liquid (how to? best method?)

How to calculate dosing?

 

[blig-blug]

One thing is that this appears to be extremely quick (at least the MHRB side of it), basically a 1 day extraction process. I'm guessing that's due to the lime, but wanted to make sure I was reading the tek summary correctly. It also differs in that the OP's tek involved reducing it to goo and then re-saturating it, where as TNT just gets reduced down to a manageable liquid, guessing that is due to the variation in ABV...

Yes, that's correct. @Transform used vodka heated to 60C for 30 minutes, IIRC. I used vodka at room temperature for a couple of hours. It indeed takes only a few hours at most.

_?___ calcium hydroxide (how much)

I didn't measure it, but it's not necessary to be precise in the amount. The key is to add it slowly, stirring well. You add a bit, stir, add a little bit more, and every so often pause to let it settle. When it's done, you'll see as it settles a transparent yellow layer will appear, you can stop then. If you added more there would be no harm, it's just not necessary. The transparent yellow looks like this (after removing the calcium hydroxide and calcium tannate): Instant ayahuasca little lightening bolt TEK

1. Place MHRB in Vodka for __?___ hours (how long)

I'd leave it a couple of hours at room temperature, but if you heat it up to 60C it seems to be enough with 30 minutes. @Celly left it in the fridge for a day, and it worked well too.

3. Decant and get rid of the tannins and lime (how to? best method?)

You can just let it decant and filter the liquid layer through a coffee filter, but it's probably best to do it like @Celly did here: Veggie Oils and Fumaric Acid question

The liquid looked like wine. I put it in a big (food safe) plastic jug and mixed in calcium hydroxide and it got black. I tried letting it settle and only take the liquid on top etc but I ended up getting better results by doing the opposite : I mixxed everything up before putting it in filters. It forced the potion to really go through the calcium hydroxide paste. I ended up with a near transparent liquid.

4. Reduce liquid (how to? best method?)

In a bain marie / double boiler, which is just boiling water in a big pan, with a smaller pan or container inside where your vodka tincture will be. That prevents you from burning it once the volume is less.

CAAPI

100 grams of Banisteriopsis Caapi
35oz Vodka (correct amount?)

1. Soak Caapi in vodka for 4 weeks
2. Reduce liquid (how to? best method?)

I'm not sure about this, as I have never done it. If the caapi is powdered, it should take less time, but I don't know that for a fact.

How to calculate dosing?

Take notes of how much grams MHRB you use, and then the final volume. Then, calculate g/ml.

E.g. if you use 100g MHRB and end up with 50ml, 100 / 50 = 2g/ml. Then calculate the dose based on how much MHRB you'd like to take. In the above example, if you want to take 5g, you'd need 2.5ml.

I usually reduce it until it's only an oily substance with very little to no water, and then add vodka for preservation and to get it to a nice number of ml where I can easily calculate the amount required for a given dose of MHRB.

 

[Transform]

@Transform used vodka heated to 60C for 30 minutes

It was multiple zaps in a microwave, which may have been overkill. Temperature was measured every few minutes or so, in an attempt to keep things under control. That was a decidedly experimental procedure, which carried a not insignificant explosion risk. This means the microwave procedure can't really be recommended unless you have explosion-proof equipment, although frequent opening of the door on the microwave may have helped in preventing a build-up of an explosive atmosphere of ethanol vapour.

Stirring in a bain marie would give better temperature control, even though the microwave results were quite satisfactory. There will always be a slight flammability risk with hot vodka, but allowing significant build up of vapour is what brings about the danger of explosion, so adequate ventilation is key in mitigating this.

There's a certain knack to filtering both the original brew and the lime-treated solution. Yields will be improved by washing the solids in the filter with a little more vodka in both cases.

Go easy with the lime addition, there's no point in adding too much - it eats up yield by trapping it in the excess solid. While rinsing will help to recover most of the occluded material, it all still amounts to a waste of materials and leads to a more dilute tincture as a result.

Yeah, I still need to write this all up as a pdf for the wiki!

 

[Transform]

CAAPI

100 grams of Banisteriopsis Caapi
35oz Vodka (correct amount?)

1. Soak Caapi in vodka for 4 weeks
2. Reduce liquid (how to? best method?)

That seems like an awful lot of vodka for that amount of caapi (and why are you mixing ounces and grams? Sheesh! )
4 weeks is also overkill, especially if you use powdered caapi. Multiple short pulls with smaller volumes of vodka will give a more effective extraction. Check each pull with a UV 'blacklight' to monitor progress. With a bit of playing around, you'll start to see how the resulting fluorescence relates to the alkaloid concentration.

 

[blig-blug]

That seems like an awful lot of vodka for that amount of caapi (and why are you mixing ounces and grams? Sheesh! )
4 weeks is also overkill, especially if you use powdered caapi. Multiple short pulls with smaller volumes of vodka will give a more effective extraction. Check each pull with a UV 'blacklight' to monitor progress. With a bit of playing around, you'll start to see how the resulting fluorescence relates to the alkaloid concentration.

Maybe it could be a good idea to use The Herbal Percolator (THP)?

 

[Pyramids]

Yes, that's correct. @Transform used vodka heated to 60C for 30 minutes, IIRC. I used vodka at room temperature for a couple of hours. It indeed takes only a few hours at most.


I didn't measure it, but it's not necessary to be precise in the amount. The key is to add it slowly, stirring well. You add a bit, stir, add a little bit more, and every so often pause to let it settle. When it's done, you'll see as it settles a transparent yellow layer will appear, you can stop then. If you added more there would be no harm, it's just not necessary. The transparent yellow looks like this (after removing the calcium hydroxide and calcium tannate): Instant ayahuasca little lightening bolt TEK


I'd leave it a couple of hours at room temperature, but if you heat it up to 60C it seems to be enough with 30 minutes. @Celly left it in the fridge for a day, and it worked well too.


You can just let it decant and filter the liquid layer through a coffee filter, but it's probably best to do it like @Celly did here: Veggie Oils and Fumaric Acid question



In a bain marie / double boiler, which is just boiling water in a big pan, with a smaller pan or container inside where your vodka tincture will be. That prevents you from burning it once the volume is less.


I'm not sure about this, as I have never done it. If the caapi is powdered, it should take less time, but I don't know that for a fact.


Take notes of how much grams MHRB you use, and then the final volume. Then, calculate g/ml.

E.g. if you use 100g MHRB and end up with 50ml, 100 / 50 = 2g/ml. Then calculate the dose based on how much MHRB you'd like to take. In the above example, if you want to take 5g, you'd need 2.5ml.

I usually reduce it until it's only an oily substance with very little to no water, and then add vodka for preservation and to get it to a nice number of ml where I can easily calculate the amount required for a given dose of MHRB.

Cool! Much gratitude for the help, very cool of you.

 

[Pyramids]

It was multiple zaps in a microwave, which may have been overkill. Temperature was measured every few minutes or so, in an attempt to keep things under control. That was a decidedly experimental procedure, which carried a not insignificant explosion risk. This means the microwave procedure can't really be recommended unless you have explosion-proof equipment, although frequent opening of the door on the microwave may have helped in preventing a build-up of an explosive atmosphere of ethanol vapour.

Stirring in a bain marie would give better temperature control, even though the microwave results were quite satisfactory. There will always be a slight flammability risk with hot vodka, but allowing significant build up of vapour is what brings about the danger of explosion, so adequate ventilation is key in mitigating this.

There's a certain knack to filtering both the original brew and the lime-treated solution. Yields will be improved by washing the solids in the filter with a little more vodka in both cases.

Go easy with the lime addition, there's no point in adding too much - it eats up yield by trapping it in the excess solid. While rinsing will help to recover most of the occluded material, it all still amounts to a waste of materials and leads to a more dilute tincture as a result.

Yeah, I still need to write this all up as a pdf for the wiki!

Ok, great! Appreciate your help!

"Yields will be improved by washing the solids in the filter with a little more vodka in both cases." By this you mean run the potion through the coffee filter and then pour some additional vodka over the top of the solids? Or actually letting them sit in a vodka soak again and re-filtering after x amount of time?

 

[Transform]

By this you mean run the potion through the coffee filter and then pour some additional vodka over the top of the solids?

Exactly that, pretty much. I mean, the MHRB could quite legitimately be pulled more than once but the rinse in the funnel largely takes care of that yieldwise. Multiple vodka pulls might well increase the proportion of tannin that gets pulled, particularly with heating, which would end up being a waste of lime.

One more thing that hasn't been restated lately is that the vodka increases in water content as a result of the lime/tannin neutralisation reaction. One way of removing excess moisture is by freezing it out at around -24°C, although that leads to a certain amount of fiddling around with a pipette to separate the ice crystals. The DMT does appear to remain nicely dissolved in the vodka, i.e. there seems to be no risk of unwanted freeze-precipitation.

It's also possible to use cold treatment to drop out some of the tannins prior to the lime treatment (after decanting the liquid away from the tannin precipitate, ofc). Do bear in mind that it would be worth checking the tannin sludge for possible co-precipitated DMT crashing out as the tannate before simply disposing of it (the Golden Rule of Extraction™!)

If you're wondering about what's up here after I said that DMT won't freeze precipitate, after lime treatment the DMT remains in solution as the freebase, which is ridiculously soluble in any aqueous ethanol above about 20% ABV. It's at least plausible to consider that this might not be the case for a DMT salt like the tannate.

Extracted DMT of reasonably high purity might oil out from ca. 25% ABV solutions below -24°C, but this doesn't appear to occur so readily with the crude, de-tanninised bark extract, where - as previously mentioned - ice separates preferentially instead.

(This is a bunch of stuff off the top of my head as I've been unable to find the associated notes for a while.)

 

[Pyramids]

Exactly that, pretty much. I mean, the MHRB could quite legitimately be pulled more than once but the rinse in the funnel largely takes care of that yieldwise. Multiple vodka pulls might well increase the proportion of tannin that gets pulled, particularly with heating, which would end up being a waste of lime.

One more thing that hasn't been restated lately is that the vodka increases in water content as a result of the lime/tannin neutralisation reaction. One way of removing excess moisture is by freezing it out at around -24°C, although that leads to a certain amount of fiddling around with a pipette to separate the ice crystals. The DMT does appear to remain nicely dissolved in the vodka, i.e. there seems to be no risk of unwanted freeze-precipitation.

It's also possible to use cold treatment to drop out some of the tannins prior to the lime treatment (after decanting the liquid away from the tannin precipitate, ofc). Do bear in mind that it would be worth checking the tannin sludge for possible co-precipitated DMT crashing out as the tannate before simply disposing of it (the Golden Rule of Extraction™!)

If you're wondering about what's up here after I said that DMT won't freeze precipitate, after lime treatment the DMT remains in solution as the freebase, which is ridiculously soluble in any aqueous ethanol above about 20% ABV. It's at least plausible to consider that this might not be the case for a DMT salt like the tannate.

Extracted DMT of reasonably high purity might oil out from ca. 25% ABV solutions below -24°C, but this doesn't appear to occur so readily with the crude, de-tanninised bark extract, where - as previously mentioned - ice separates preferentially instead.

(This is a bunch of stuff off the top of my head as I've been unable to find the associated notes for a while.)

Thanks for the additional info, Transform!

 

[Pyramids]

I'm wondering whether or not to purchase a magnetic stirrer hotplate? Seems to possibly get better/faster results? Does anyone have a recommendation for one?
Also, is there a consensus on temperatures and stir times for this process? I appreciate y'all being patient with me.

 

[blig-blug]

I'm wondering whether or not to purchase a magnetic stirrer hotplate? Seems to possibly get better/faster results?

This tek is already pretty fast. It may make a small difference to be stirring the MHRB in the vodka continuously, but I don't think it's worth it. It won't do any harm, though.

Also, is there a consensus on temperatures and stir times for this process?

No consensus, I'd recommend a couple of hours at room temperature, stirring from time to time. It's less potentially hazardous than heating the vodka up, and putting it in the fridge but leaving it for longer doesn't make much sense to me.

This tek is already in an experimental stage where many variables haven't been optimized, but it has worked well for everyone that has followed it (and everyone did it slightly differently). It's not a tek that requires very precise temperatures, timing, or quantities (unless values for those variables are found in the future that make a significant difference).

 

[Transform]

I'm wondering whether or not to purchase a magnetic stirrer hotplate? Seems to possibly get better/faster results? Does anyone have a recommendation for one?
Also, is there a consensus on temperatures and stir times for this process? I appreciate y'all being patient with me.

+1 for the stirrer hotplate, especially if you can envisage further uses for it in the future.

The three-hour stirring at 60°C was actually devised for tannin removal from acorns. There has been little in the way of systematic experimentation to dial in and optimise the variables for extracting DMT from MHRB, other than @blig-blug's finding that room temperature vodka appears to be equally effective while reducing the amount of tannin which gets pulled. That seems to be an advantage in terms of both minimising lime usage and reducing energy consumption. However, I don't think this has been quantified.

 

[Pyramids]

This tek is already pretty fast. It may make a small difference to be stirring the MHRB in the vodka continuously, but I don't think it's worth it. It won't do any harm, though.


No consensus, I'd recommend a couple of hours at room temperature, stirring from time to time. It's less potentially hazardous than heating the vodka up, and putting it in the fridge but leaving it for longer doesn't make much sense to me.

This tek is already in an experimental stage where many variables haven't been optimized, but it has worked well for everyone that has followed it (and everyone did it slightly differently). It's not a tek that requires very precise temperatures, timing, or quantities (unless values for those variables are found in the future that make a significant difference).

Ok, cool, good to know. I'll just hold off on the magnetic stirrer for now then.

Regarding the Caapi tincture, have you tried any modifications to the process to reduce gut impact? Likely the harmalas are the key suspect there (and we obviously don't want to remove those) but what about the tannins?

 

[blig-blug]

other than @blig-blug's finding that room temperature vodka appears to be equally effective while reducing the amount of tannin which gets pulled

@Celly had success leaving it in the fridge for several days but, again, I don't see the point in cooling it down.

 

[Transform]

@Celly had success leaving it in the fridge for several days but, again, I don't see the point in cooling it down.

Seeing as tannin already crashes from hot vodka on cooling, a fridge rest after straining out the bark may help with minimising lime usage by precipitating additional tannin in advance of the lime treatment. Even without refrigeration, it proved necessary to decant the initial tincture away from a significant amount of precipitated tannin aftercooling to room temperature.

Again, the caveat applies that all tannin sludge needs to be checked for DMT content before disposal. Ascertaining the salt form of the DMT in its natural state in the root bark may be useful here. What I mean by that is that there may well be enough (e.g.) malic acid present for the DMT to remain dissolved as the malate, while the tannic acids that precipitate do so whith a minimum of DMT tannate getting included.

 

[Pyramids]

Cool, no tannin removing trickery with the Banisteriopsis caapi?

 

[blig-blug]

Cool, no tannin removing trickery with the Banisteriopsis caapi?

With caapi there are less tannins than with MHRB if you do a cold water extraction/tincture. You can always do a cold water extraction, add a base like ammonia to it little by little until it becomes cloudy (and then add a bit more), let it decant, and recover the solid part at the bottom. Those will be extracted caapi harmalas in freebase form (there are more elaborate teks, check the wiki if you want to go that route). But I think if you do a tincture with caapi you don't need to worry too much about tannins.

 

[Pyramids]

With caapi there are less tannins than with MHRB if you do a cold water extraction/tincture. You can always do a cold water extraction, add a base like ammonia to it little by little until it becomes cloudy (and then add a bit more), let it decant, and recover the solid part at the bottom. Those will be extracted caapi harmalas in freebase form (there are more elaborate teks, check the wiki if you want to go that route). But I think if you do a tincture with caapi you don't need to worry too much about tannins.

nice. sounds like a plan.

I am recalling several experiences I had on traditional ayahuasca brews when i drank jurema wine about an hour into the trip...choking down the astringent tannins that would then wreck my gut...haha. It was always a powerful experience but the possibility of eliminating some of the physical wear and tear is exciting.

 

[blig-blug]

I am recalling several experiences I had on traditional ayahuasca brews when i drank jurema wine about an hour into the trip...choking down the astringent tannins that would then wreck my gut...haha. It was always a powerful experience but the possibility of eliminating some of the physical wear and tear is exciting.

Yes, I think both have their place. Also, jurema was not traditionally drank (AFAIK "vinho da jurema" is a later development and drank on its own, not aya), nor were the other DMT-containing barks. Caapi and the leafs (chacruna, chalipanga) still have tannins, but to a much lesser degree than MHRB. With the later you can feel your mouth "dry" as soon as it touches it.