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Is life a dream? A dream within a dream?

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fathomlessness

fathomlessness

Rising Star
I wanted to post this on here to explore this concept a bit further.

The most prominent thing I have learnt from my bouts of DMT-induced psychosis or derealisation is that there is nothing fundementally concrete that confirms to me that I am a real entity that is existing in a real physical world. The only validation that I have is an awareness of an environment with a 'supposed' ME in that environment, but that isn't really concrete because I don't understand what awareness itself is or what consciousness is.

This is all very alike the definition of being in a dream, not knowing where you are or where the awareness is coming from, what is behind existence, what is it that existence relies upon to generate its existence? How can something even exist? Is nothing impossible? If I knew the answers to those question I could know with certainty whether life was truely existing or not.

It seems absurd doesn't it? How could you not exist? You are aware of existence arnt you? Then you must be existing otherwise you wouldn't be aware and if you are existing then you must be real! Well then, either the DMT is making me delusional or it's showing me a truth I can't understand and am having a hard time trying to intergrate in to a stable awareness of myself existing.
 
was just about to make a new thread in regards to this odd phenomena I've lived with for a while since my first true mystical experiences awhile ago that have since been fermenting...

So essentially I've come to some "absolute" truths, that can be put in words, words that can then be traced back to their intrinsic meaning, rather than mere colloquial definition. Upon arriving at these, rebuilding my "buzzwords" from the ground up every time inspiration moves me to Remember, I reach some sort of "conclusion" having to do with this infinitely complex cycle of 'the map is not the territory, the menu is not the meal, the model is not the universe', let go of my innate curiosity that seems to "plague"(not necessarily in a negative way) many "awake" humans, and just try to, (instead of simultaneously living on both) balance Heaven, or "high truth, deep mystery etc" with Earth, "oh cool, senses, food, beautiful women, music, the outdoors, sustaining life and enjoying it, not unquestioningly but not in a deep psychedelic pensiveness that realistically seems only satiated briefly in fits of "enlightenment", psychedelic trips, or less-than-full realizations that materialize in something remotely linear, such as words, which again lose their meaning over time, and have to be "revitalized" through further "awareness" or "remembrance" in order to...

do you see what I'm getting at?

Sometimes it feels good just to live as a human for awhile, what ever that may seem.

Our perceptive operating systems seem to create its own little version of ABSOLUTEREALITY

But I feel as though the furthest reaches of that are fundamentally, by definition, (if you followed my post this far you will roar with laughter at the last non parenthetical remark) intangible.

And what if we only seek to understand with some remote sense of clarity what existence is?

'Is, is, is, the idiocracy of that word...'-Robert Anton Wilson

I feel as though the DMT space left me with the impression that these entities, which still seem to inhabit some sort of vessel-like apparatus to house their consciousness, gives humanity hope of eventually, an insurmountable quantity of timefrom Now, we too may evolve to such a level of cognition parallel to or exceeding the 'DMT elves'

But what the fuck are these words I'm draping over ABSOLUTEREALITY mean?

How ever you, the observer choose to interpret them.

Ys out.

Meow, I'm a cat.

'YYYEAAAHHH, MAGNETS, BITCH, OHHH' -Jesse Pinkman
 
Good questions there fathomlessness, the riddle of existence.

I can't shed the feeling the questions (are necessary but also) kind of "naive", like where does the horizon end? Most of the solved naive questions of the historic past did not really got a tailored answer as expected, but the questions themselves became irrelevant once the "out of the box" made them questions look rather silly. Many questions have already been dissolved instead of solved.

This is a feeling I often encounter when being deep in-there, to never mind the aspects and all I can do is having a smile about them. In that state a bad trip becomes also impossible. Irrelevance is the word there but not in a dismissing way as dismissing became irrelevant too. That I bring back, in particular that smile. Then the big questions are still there but that "smile" about them erodes their fixative nature and then feel to 1 step closer to "out of the box". Do I need to say I love the plants :lol:
 
I think that if life is a dream within a dream, a better question would be who or what is the being dreaming?
Certainly not the body, because, well the body is YOURS, possessive, you own it.
Not the mind, again, possessive, it belongs to someone or something.
What exactly is that thing that animates the body & mind? Consciousness? Now define consciousness & how it makes life possible without being a physical thing in & of itself.
 
If you dig down far enough in any philosophy you end up with a big epistemological question mark.

Our entire knowledge of the universe is pretty much built on sand. So far, it's done a pretty good job of not shifting under us.

I wouldn't worry too much about such questions. You'll never find an answer that satisfies you. Work on doing meaningful things with your life.

Blessings
~ND
 
RhythmSpring said:
Reality exists.

It's the thoughts you have about it that are not real.

EDIT: Meow
Click to expand...


REALITY??:shock:

What is it anyway?

To your brain... even dreams are filed as real events.. and stored as memorys.. [just as real].. as what happens durring waking hours of each day...

Only in your higher level mind reasoning...[ using critical thought]...you may see a diference in so called reality and dreams...

Look into a mirror and ask... WHO AM I?

You may be surprised at the answer you get...

Life is chock full of illusions...
the budist monks see life as a daily series of dreams....

The waking dreams durring the day and the sleeping dreams during the night...

Ive had high level dreams bordering on lucidity where [while in the dream].. i walked down streets created by my mind with child storybook green hillsides all around compleat with rivers birds flying through cotton filled blue skys i even stoped to talk to a long necked girrafe looking at me from behind a fence.. then [still in the dream] I became tired and layed down on a park bench and fell asleep...

Then still in the dream asleep... i woke up on the park bench and told a nearby [DC] ...
[dream carector]..that i just had a dream!:thumb_up:


I told him all about my dream as he listened to me eyes wide open..


That is one example of waking up within a dream!:thumb_up:

In a dream anything is posible...
 
The nature of ˝IT˝ is a Paradox.

I think (i base this on my so far personal subjective experience that is bound to change as i move along this story) as long as you seem to be something you will never know or understand it. ˝You˝ need to cease being something and ˝return˝ to ˝nothing˝ to get it...but there is no ˝You˝ to get it.:shock:
Hope this make sense in othervise completley incomprihensible subject.

I agree what Nathanial.Dread wrote. Enjoy your life while it lasts since it's a gift that we mostlikley get to realy appreciate when it's about to end.

ps. here and there do some exploring but don't get hung up on big questions since i remember there is a big joke hidden somewhere.

Peace and Love
 
pau said:
don't dig too deeply or you'll put all the philosophers out of business
Click to expand...
Given that philosophers have been going over the same questions over and over again for thousands of years without making an appreciable progress, I think they're jobs are pretty secure.

Blessings
~ND
 
fathomlessness said:
I wanted to post this on here to explore this concept a bit further.

The most prominent thing I have learnt from my bouts of DMT-induced psychosis or derealisation is that there is nothing fundementally concrete that confirms to me that I am a real entity that is existing in a real physical world. The only validation that I have is an awareness of an environment with a 'supposed' ME in that environment, but that isn't really concrete because I don't understand what awareness itself is or what consciousness is.

This is all very alike the definition of being in a dream, not knowing where you are or where the awareness is coming from, what is behind existence, what is it that existence relies upon to generate its existence? How can something even exist? Is nothing impossible? If I knew the answers to those question I could know with certainty whether life was truely existing or not.

It seems absurd doesn't it? How could you not exist? You are aware of existence arnt you? Then you must be existing otherwise you wouldn't be aware and if you are existing then you must be real! Well then, either the DMT is making me delusional or it's showing me a truth I can't understand and am having a hard time trying to intergrate in to a stable awareness of myself existing.
Click to expand...


..personally i think philosophy (like science) has to eventually give way at a certain point, and that point as concombres and RhythmSpring alluded to, is awareness itself (which many wise people have concluded is the same as existence)

it's also about 'degrees' of 'realness'...whatever experiences a witness has (external or internal) are transient (except the experience of experience itself) ..change can only be measured against a constant..like we change our opinions about things or people...what seems (or is) real at one time is not later on...it's the witness that's the constant

unless one has developed siddhis (or supernatural powers) and transcended the usual laws of nature (as on occasion claimed every few millenia) , the 'dream' is for practical purposes real...it's transiently real..more importantly, it's exquisite and beautiful in all its workings, even with it's traps..

spiritual schools point to the thing that philosophy and science can't, the pure consciousness/existence, in very disciplined ways, so as to overcome the apparent sufferings in the world..

but many would also say (shaktism for instance) , take reassurance from the unexplainable mystery, but, even it's it's all truly 'That', enjoy this life, this world, this body...it's very special...make the most of it..

so, as they would say, no you are not fathomless..you are That..you exist! :)
.
 
It's hard to define what is or is not a dream, in the context that I feel is implied here, when there really is no context to turn to in the first place to draw upon for a conclusion.

It is only when you surrender(not really the same as submission in this context) into the desire(for meaning, understanding etc), while resigning to do nothing about that desire that a kind of stillness beyond the narratives emerges. It's not the desire itself, for me, but the narratives we follow in it's wake that bring us into "illusory" states like suffering. I don't agree with the paradigm of thought that it is the desire itself which is an illusion or the cause of suffering. It is the act of trying to find something to quench that desire. The doing brings us into the dream. The desire remains, always, and requires no adornments. It is beautiful. Honor that.

It does not mean you stop doing. It does not mean anything like that. It doesn't mean anything.

The desire is a calling, and a blessing, itself.

<3
 
ys said:
was just about to make a new thread in regards to this odd phenomena I've lived with for a while since my first true mystical experiences awhile ago that have since been fermenting...

So essentially I've come to some "absolute" truths, that can be put in words, words that can then be traced back to their intrinsic meaning, rather than mere colloquial definition. Upon arriving at these, rebuilding my "buzzwords" from the ground up every time inspiration moves me to Remember, I reach some sort of "conclusion" having to do with this infinitely complex cycle of 'the map is not the territory, the menu is not the meal, the model is not the universe', let go of my innate curiosity that seems to "plague"(not necessarily in a negative way) many "awake" humans, and just try to, (instead of simultaneously living on both) balance Heaven, or "high truth, deep mystery etc" with Earth, "oh cool, senses, food, beautiful women, music, the outdoors, sustaining life and enjoying it, not unquestioningly but not in a deep psychedelic pensiveness that realistically seems only satiated briefly in fits of "enlightenment", psychedelic trips, or less-than-full realizations that materialize in something remotely linear, such as words, which again lose their meaning over time, and have to be "revitalized" through further "awareness" or "remembrance" in order to...

do you see what I'm getting at?

Sometimes it feels good just to live as a human for awhile, what ever that may seem.

Our perceptive operating systems seem to create its own little version of ABSOLUTEREALITY

But I feel as though the furthest reaches of that are fundamentally, by definition, (if you followed my post this far you will roar with laughter at the last non parenthetical remark) intangible.

And what if we only seek to understand with some remote sense of clarity what existence is?

'Is, is, is, the idiocracy of that word...'-Robert Anton Wilson

I feel as though the DMT space left me with the impression that these entities, which still seem to inhabit some sort of vessel-like apparatus to house their consciousness, gives humanity hope of eventually, an insurmountable quantity of timefrom Now, we too may evolve to such a level of cognition parallel to or exceeding the 'DMT elves'

But what the fuck are these words I'm draping over ABSOLUTEREALITY mean?

How ever you, the observer choose to interpret them.

Ys out.

Meow, I'm a cat.

'YYYEAAAHHH, MAGNETS, BITCH, OHHH' -Jesse Pinkman
Click to expand...
:lol: good words there thank you
 
I highly recommend you watch the movie 'Waking Life'.

One of many great quotes from that movie below

Hey, are you a dreamer?

Yeah.

I haven't seen too many around lately. Things have been tough lately for dreamers. They say dreaming is dead, no one does it anymore. It's not dead it's just that it's been forgotten, removed from our language. Nobody teaches it so nobody knows it exists. The dreamer is banished to obscurity. Well, I'm trying to change all that, and I hope you are too. By dreaming, every day. Dreaming with our hands and dreaming with our minds. Our planet is facing the greatest problems it's ever faced, ever. So whatever you do, don't be bored, this is absolutely the most exciting time we could have possibly hoped to be alive. And things are just starting


Click to expand...
 
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