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Is safrole psychedelic?
- Thread starter 69ron
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69ron
Esteemed member
I don’t know about brandy, SWIM doesn’t like using alcohol, but it should work. If the alcohol is not high enough proof, the Elemi oil is not going to mix into it and will just float on top and be pretty ineffective. You need a high proof alcohol, but I’m not sure how high.
For honey, use one that is not so thick, like the kind sold in those little plastic honey bear squeeze bottles. That kind is not too thick. You pour out 2 teaspoons of honey, and then add about 10-20 drops of Elemi oil to it. The Elemi oil needs to be mixed thoroughly into it. It tends to want to float on top of the honey if not well mixed, so you really need to mix it well. After it’s mixed it stays well mixed, and you can just eat it plain or you can make a honey sandwich from it. It’s not bad tasting, but you might need to get used to it. It’s got sort of a flower-like flavor.
The idea is that you want the Elemi oil in something the body wants to digest. The human body reacts very well to honey. It stimulates digestion, so the Elemi oil will get absorbed much faster.
Instead of honey, you might want to try using maple syrup or corn syrup. If you can manage to mix in the oil without it floating to the top, then it should work. SWIM has only tried honey.
I’m not sure exactly why it’s soluble in honey. Maybe the honey is just so thick that it traps the oil within it? However it works, it works well. So far SWIM’s best experiences have been with Elemi oil mixed in honey.
For honey, use one that is not so thick, like the kind sold in those little plastic honey bear squeeze bottles. That kind is not too thick. You pour out 2 teaspoons of honey, and then add about 10-20 drops of Elemi oil to it. The Elemi oil needs to be mixed thoroughly into it. It tends to want to float on top of the honey if not well mixed, so you really need to mix it well. After it’s mixed it stays well mixed, and you can just eat it plain or you can make a honey sandwich from it. It’s not bad tasting, but you might need to get used to it. It’s got sort of a flower-like flavor.
The idea is that you want the Elemi oil in something the body wants to digest. The human body reacts very well to honey. It stimulates digestion, so the Elemi oil will get absorbed much faster.
Instead of honey, you might want to try using maple syrup or corn syrup. If you can manage to mix in the oil without it floating to the top, then it should work. SWIM has only tried honey.
I’m not sure exactly why it’s soluble in honey. Maybe the honey is just so thick that it traps the oil within it? However it works, it works well. So far SWIM’s best experiences have been with Elemi oil mixed in honey.
pau
Rising Star
well the results of SWIM's 7 elemi drops in Armenian brandy are in:
SWIM noticed pleasant threshhold effects, but no launching into space. SWIM noticed very tiny oilspots floating on top of the brandy, so the feeling is is that brandy is better than water, but others experience that honey is superior to brandy. So, SWIM will try another 8 drops perhaps tonight dissolved in honey.
The Armenian brandy is great! Aarat brand, older the better, try 20 yrs.
SWIM noticed pleasant threshhold effects, but no launching into space. SWIM noticed very tiny oilspots floating on top of the brandy, so the feeling is is that brandy is better than water, but others experience that honey is superior to brandy. So, SWIM will try another 8 drops perhaps tonight dissolved in honey.
The Armenian brandy is great! Aarat brand, older the better, try 20 yrs.
imPsimon
Rising Star
69ron said:
I was looking for that liquid kind today in the store but they had none. Only firm honey.
So that got me thinking.
What if I melt the honey, mix in the elemioil and then let it harden to it's natural state.
A firm ball of honey is probably easier to "take out" than some liquid sticky stuff.
Will try this later this week=)
pau
Rising Star
SWIM is now of the opinion that the quality or source or extraction method of elemi oil has a lot to do with how it works/transforms/blends. SWIM's particular batch, though he does not doubt it's the real thing, is just not satisfying to date. SWIM wishes his experiences were more powerful, as he's read elsewhere.
SWIM just finished 4th uneventful elemi experience...neither quantity (up to 20 drops) nor blending agent (water, honey, brandy) seem to make any difference.
SWIM does report that there are definitely some mild threshhold effects, and it seems slightly sedative, even better than chamomile tea.
So compared to the reports of other researchers, SWIM will put elemi aside until there are some better teks or whatever. He thinks something is definitely going on, but the systematic way to capitalize on it is not there yet.
SWIM just finished 4th uneventful elemi experience...neither quantity (up to 20 drops) nor blending agent (water, honey, brandy) seem to make any difference.
SWIM does report that there are definitely some mild threshhold effects, and it seems slightly sedative, even better than chamomile tea.
So compared to the reports of other researchers, SWIM will put elemi aside until there are some better teks or whatever. He thinks something is definitely going on, but the systematic way to capitalize on it is not there yet.
69ron
Esteemed member
Pau, if you don't wait long enough between tests, it will be very disappointing and become sort of a sedative.
SWIM has been testing this oil quite a bit.
If you take a large dose, you need to wait at least 3 days of no use before trying again. For example, if you take 15 drops, and then 3 days later take 18 drops, 18 drops will be weaker than the 15 drops, and the stimulant effect is replaced by a sedative effect, becoming more like kava.
Some people might require up to a week or so between tests in order to avoid tolerance. For SWIM tolerance to Elemi oil lasts 3 days. He can take it every 4 days without noticeable tolerance, but if he takes it every 3 days, there’s noticeable tolerance, and instead of the effects being like LSD, they are more like kava, sort of foggy and sedating instead of clear and stimulating.
I think that’s one reason this oil is so obscure. It doesn’t work if you take it everyday. You need long breaks between usage.
SWIM also found that taking a second booster dose is very ineffective and will tend to cause a sedative kava like effect.
Once you get tolerance to Elemi oil, it’s sedating like kava, and uninteresting.
Let your body have a break from Elemi oil. Try again after 1 week. For SWIM 4 days is enough but for others it’s likely 1 week is needed.
SWIM has been testing this oil quite a bit.
If you take a large dose, you need to wait at least 3 days of no use before trying again. For example, if you take 15 drops, and then 3 days later take 18 drops, 18 drops will be weaker than the 15 drops, and the stimulant effect is replaced by a sedative effect, becoming more like kava.
Some people might require up to a week or so between tests in order to avoid tolerance. For SWIM tolerance to Elemi oil lasts 3 days. He can take it every 4 days without noticeable tolerance, but if he takes it every 3 days, there’s noticeable tolerance, and instead of the effects being like LSD, they are more like kava, sort of foggy and sedating instead of clear and stimulating.
I think that’s one reason this oil is so obscure. It doesn’t work if you take it everyday. You need long breaks between usage.
SWIM also found that taking a second booster dose is very ineffective and will tend to cause a sedative kava like effect.
Once you get tolerance to Elemi oil, it’s sedating like kava, and uninteresting.
Let your body have a break from Elemi oil. Try again after 1 week. For SWIM 4 days is enough but for others it’s likely 1 week is needed.
69ron
Esteemed member
SWIM’s last test was yesterday. He took 18 drops. There was noticeable tolerance because he took 15 drops 3 days before that.
The experience was interesting but not nearly as nice as it is when you don’t have tolerance to it.
At 18 drops (0.5 ml) visual effects were very noticeable, sort of sparkly, wavy, soft, unlike anything else. It’s hard to compare to LSD or mescaline.
Because of the tolerance build up, the overall feeling was sedating and foggy, similar to kava, and the euphoria was completely absent.
SWIM is going to have to try this dose again when he no longer has tolerance to it.
COMBOS
The following Elemi oil combos have been tried by SWIM (at doses of 18 drops or less of Elemi oil):
Coffee – this is good, it potentiates the effects a little, increases the euphoria mostly.
Datura stramonium – this increases the visuals and euphoria. About 1-5 seeds are a good dose.
Chamomile – this does nothing at all, unless it’s taken the day following the Elemi oil, in which case SWIM has experienced an Elemi oil “FLASHBACK”. SWIM is not sure if this is reproducible. More tests on this need to be done.
Harmaline – this greatly enhances the visuals effects. SWIM used 10 mg sublingually after the peak from a 15 drop Elemi oil dose (taken without tolerance build up) and entered into a state similar to ayahuasca. SWIM normally doesn’t like harmaline, and only tested this because he doesn’t have THH or anything better. But this is a combination SWIM found quite amazing actually.
Passionflower – this increases the euphoria and slightly increases the visuals.
The experience was interesting but not nearly as nice as it is when you don’t have tolerance to it.
At 18 drops (0.5 ml) visual effects were very noticeable, sort of sparkly, wavy, soft, unlike anything else. It’s hard to compare to LSD or mescaline.
Because of the tolerance build up, the overall feeling was sedating and foggy, similar to kava, and the euphoria was completely absent.
SWIM is going to have to try this dose again when he no longer has tolerance to it.
COMBOS
The following Elemi oil combos have been tried by SWIM (at doses of 18 drops or less of Elemi oil):
Coffee – this is good, it potentiates the effects a little, increases the euphoria mostly.
Datura stramonium – this increases the visuals and euphoria. About 1-5 seeds are a good dose.
Chamomile – this does nothing at all, unless it’s taken the day following the Elemi oil, in which case SWIM has experienced an Elemi oil “FLASHBACK”. SWIM is not sure if this is reproducible. More tests on this need to be done.
Harmaline – this greatly enhances the visuals effects. SWIM used 10 mg sublingually after the peak from a 15 drop Elemi oil dose (taken without tolerance build up) and entered into a state similar to ayahuasca. SWIM normally doesn’t like harmaline, and only tested this because he doesn’t have THH or anything better. But this is a combination SWIM found quite amazing actually.
Passionflower – this increases the euphoria and slightly increases the visuals.
g13juggalo
Rising Star
Hey, ron, would it make sense to you that there could be multiple actives in the oil? Considering you claim that you get different, but still active effects before the tolerance wears off? This could mean one active is sedating and doesn't have tolerance, while another is stimulating, but causes tolerance.
Also, from your experience with it, do you think it could increase ones productivity? I believe low doses of shrooms were once used by tribes to help hunt. At a point where it enhanced vision without causing hallucinations. This sounds like it could do the same, since you claim theres very few visuals. Not to mention the stimulating effects could help a lot.
Also, from your experience with it, do you think it could increase ones productivity? I believe low doses of shrooms were once used by tribes to help hunt. At a point where it enhanced vision without causing hallucinations. This sounds like it could do the same, since you claim theres very few visuals. Not to mention the stimulating effects could help a lot.
69ron
Esteemed member
g13juggalo said:
This is very possible. There are a number of things present in the oil. The 4 main components present are mostly limonene, alpha-phellandrene, elemol, and elemicin. The other components are present in pretty small mounts, most less than 1%. I cannot find information on elemol concerning its effects in man. Maybe this is a sedative.
g13juggalo said:
Yes, I believe it can increase productivity in a way similar to shrooms. At least SWIM's batch of elemi oil can. A dose of 2-5 drops is good for this. But it won't work well 2 days in a row.
69ron
Esteemed member
Evening Glory said:
SWIM gets visuals at 15-18 drops. Nothing intense, but it definitely can be classified as “hallucinogenic”, comparable to maybe 75 mg of mescaline, where there are some visuals but it’s mostly stimulation and euphoria that you get.
I think because of all the horror stories of nutmeg overdoses, people are, for good reason, nervous about taking such a high dose as that. No one knows what it does at that dose. It might be extremely unpleasant.
SWIM is not a risk taker and is not about to jump into a high dose like that with a virtually unknown psychedelic. He’s upping his doses slowly, a few drops each time.
Concerning the variation of the elemicin content in Elemi oil, it might not be a good idea to try 60 drops of some batches. Some Elemi oil is said to contain as much as 20% elemicin, while most contains about 4%. 1 ml is about 36 drops of oil (depending on the dropper used), and weighs about 857 mg or so, at 20% elemicin that would be 171 mg. Most elemi oil is about 4% elemicin so 36 drops would be about 34 mg. That’s a big variance. 60 drops is roughly 2 ml of oil, and 2 ml could contain anything from 68-342 mg of elemicin.
For safety reasons, I recommend no one jumps into taking a large dose. I recommend slowly upping the dose a few drops each time, preferable once a week, or at least once every 4 days. That way if any unpleasant effects become apparent at say 40 drops, you know to be more cautious about taking more.
Also, you should test the potency of each new batch you get, starting at no more than 10 drops. With super potent Elemi oil 10 drops could contain up to 47 mg of elemicin. I don’t know how potent SWIM’s is. I am assuming it is the average 4% content, but maybe it’s higher. I just don’t know.
69ron
Esteemed member
rOm said:
I would think twice about that one if I were you. With all the negative reports on nutmeg, I don’t think most people would even consider trying nutmeg oil.
Most likely the best use of nutmeg oil is as a flavoring for eggnog, cookies, cake, etc.
Nutmeg contains a lot of stuff not found in Elemi oil. Myristicin for example is not found in Elemi oil and it is a proven psychoactive compound. Nutmeg is described as being a stoning marijuana like drug with a ton of side effects.
At some point SWIM will try an active but small dose of nutmeg, just out of curiosity, but judging by all the negative reports out there, I doubt it will be anything pleasant.
I like the flavor of nutmeg. I use it in coffee sometimes. I never experienced anything from it, but then again, I never had enough of it.
The only thing nutmeg might be good for is as a potentiater of others things, possibly. But as a psychedelic, the trip reports out there make it look pretty bad.
I don’t know about nutmeg oil. Maybe it’s more pleasant than whole nutmeg, maybe even less pleasant. I just don’t know. I do know it’s a great flavoring.
rOm said:
I am wondering if steam distillation removes some of the toxins.
When I put my hand on nutmeg oil, I should give it a try.
After all, sWiM had two experiences with nutmeg about 7 years ago, one was really cool, the other one was like a long purge, but he was being a big stupid while drunk alcohol and start to mix LSA seeds with mushrooms and the nutmeg...
When it worked well (the first trial), it was stimulating both mentally, visually and to some extent physically. like would be 50mcg of lsd or a a low dose of mescaline, which is pretty much what we've noticed about elemi.
69ron
Esteemed member
rOm said:
It’s possible that nutmeg oil is less toxic than whole nutmeg. It’s probably easier to digest, and definitely a far smaller quantity is needed so using it should be more pleasant. I think you might be able to encapsulate the oil in gelatin capsules and use it that way to avoid the strong taste most users complain about. That works for Elemi oil, but is a little inconsistent in effects, or so it seems. Putting it in honey seems to work better.
So if one were to use nutmeg oil, what would be a safe starting dose free of side effects?
rOm said:
Yes, some people report good effects from it. But it’s usually a mixed bag like what you said. I think nutmeg probably varies a lot in terms of its active principles. It contains pinene, sabinene, camphene (60-80%), dipentene (8%), myristicin (4%), elemicin (2%), safrole (0.6%), eugenol, methyl eugenol, methoxyeugenol, methylisoeugenol, isoeugenol (1%).
It differs a lot from Elemi oil. It’s main constituent is camphene, while Elemi oil is mostly limonene. Limonene is a normal part of a healthy diet, found in citrus fruit. Camphene is used as a flavoring, but I know very little about its health effects. It appears naturally in a lot of food people eat.
Nutmeg oil contains about 1/2 to 1/10 as much elemicin as Elemi oil, and it contains the psychoactives myristicin and safrole which are not found in Elemi oil. So I expect the effects are going to be different.
SWIM is very curious about myristicin. Safrole is mostly just a sedative. It’s effects can be felt from using sassafras tea.
I’m willing to bet that sometimes nutmeg oil is high is safrole, other times it’s high is elemicin, but most of the time it’s high in myristicin. That would account for a lot of the variation in effects people seem to have with nutmeg.
rOm said:
That’s probably caused by the elemicin content. Without having experienced nutmeg, SWIM can’t really say that for sure though. Elemicin is probably active at a much lower dose than myristicin, and is probably responsible for the good LSD-style trips some people report having with nutmeg. Judging by the doses needed for elemi oil, I would say elemicin it’s probably 10 times more potent than myristicin.
I personally have no experience with nutmeg other than using it as a spice. Most of the reports of nutmeg use I’ve read have been bad reports, so I think most people will be reluctant to try nutmeg. Even SWIM is hesitant, but still very curious about it.
One of the biggest worries of nutmeg use is that nutmeg powder and whole nuts are notoriously wide ranging in potency. One thing for sure, by using nutmeg oil instead, you avoid the worry of the nutmeg being old and impotent, and you have a far more consistent potency. One bottle of nutmeg oil should have the same potency every time you use it, whereas the whole nutmegs or nutmeg powder will vary a lot in potency from piece to piece. So I would think that using the oil would be the better way to go as far as potency goes.
I’ve seen old nutmeg powder and fresh nutmeg powder. The fresh powder is a little oily, the oil powder is not. The stuff making the fresh powder oily is the essential oil. If you distill the nutmeg, supposedly you’re getting all the psychoactive materials out of the nutmeg. I’ve read that nutmeg is not psychoactive after the essential oils are removed from it. But maybe it’s still somewhat toxic.
I would tend to believe that the oil would be less toxic, and easier on the digestive system. The nutmegs themselves probably contain a whole bunch of water soluble toxins not present in the oil. This is my guess.
I can’t really find any user report comparing nutmeg to nutmeg oil.
Here’s something you might like to read. This guy has used several of these oils. This is the quote that first got me interested in Elemi oil. This is a quote from bluelight:
hummus
Rising Star
69ron; I've done nutmeg oil quite a few times and have found it to be very nice and pleasurable especially in smaller doses, in higher doses it can get quite psychedelic/dissociative. I generally just put it into 00 capsules (a bit under a ml), I'd say start off with 1 capsule which is a nice light dose where you can carry on as you would before, but I have gone up to 4 capsules. This has been tried on two different batches of oil, both with similar effects.
As long as you fill up the capsules carefully to ensure the oil doesn't get on the outside there's no taste and it's a very easy method of ingestion. Oil will leak out over time so I just fill them up at the time of ingestion.
Effects last approximately 12-18 hours, they can be described as very anxiolytic, at times both stimulant and sedative, very mildly dissociative and with a bit of a 'zen' edge to it, with some hints of psychedelia.
Mace oil also works nicely, it's a bit more potent and 'smoother' in it's effects, I'd estimate that it's no more than 2X the potency.
Of course larger doses will give you the nutmeg effects you hear of in trip reports, the highest dose I've done was 4 capsules which was still extremely pleasant, with a whole body 'buzzing', quite a 'rolling' euphoric feeling and some dissociation which could be likened to a small dose of ketamine. Some intricate CEV's were observed with some mild OEV's, and the general psychedelic 'mind opening' and empathogenic effects.
It can cause a bit of diarrhea on an empty stomach, I like to take it half an hour before lunchtime after a normal breakfast, this seems to negate almost all nauseous effects.
The last quote you gave gives a reasonable description of some of the effects too, although with reasonable dosage I find it to be very gentle and overall entirely positive for mental health. I dosed 1 capsule of oil the night before yesterday and the last day has been wonderful; I found myself with a lot more motivation and empathogenic energy and this 'afterglow' of positive energy lasts for a long time after, and I've noticed no comedown or hangover from it. I really do love it and do it ocassionally when I have the time for it
I'd be interested to try elemi oil though, with the positive ratings compared to nutmeg oil it should be interesting to see how well it works.
As long as you fill up the capsules carefully to ensure the oil doesn't get on the outside there's no taste and it's a very easy method of ingestion. Oil will leak out over time so I just fill them up at the time of ingestion.
Effects last approximately 12-18 hours, they can be described as very anxiolytic, at times both stimulant and sedative, very mildly dissociative and with a bit of a 'zen' edge to it, with some hints of psychedelia.
Mace oil also works nicely, it's a bit more potent and 'smoother' in it's effects, I'd estimate that it's no more than 2X the potency.
Of course larger doses will give you the nutmeg effects you hear of in trip reports, the highest dose I've done was 4 capsules which was still extremely pleasant, with a whole body 'buzzing', quite a 'rolling' euphoric feeling and some dissociation which could be likened to a small dose of ketamine. Some intricate CEV's were observed with some mild OEV's, and the general psychedelic 'mind opening' and empathogenic effects.
It can cause a bit of diarrhea on an empty stomach, I like to take it half an hour before lunchtime after a normal breakfast, this seems to negate almost all nauseous effects.
The last quote you gave gives a reasonable description of some of the effects too, although with reasonable dosage I find it to be very gentle and overall entirely positive for mental health. I dosed 1 capsule of oil the night before yesterday and the last day has been wonderful; I found myself with a lot more motivation and empathogenic energy and this 'afterglow' of positive energy lasts for a long time after, and I've noticed no comedown or hangover from it. I really do love it and do it ocassionally when I have the time for it
I'd be interested to try elemi oil though, with the positive ratings compared to nutmeg oil it should be interesting to see how well it works.