memo said:
bufoman said:
This idea of hallucinogens shutting off the filters is ridiculous we do not have the organs to perceive these "other" things as they do not interact with matter (in which case we could detect them) and thus even if they do exist are irrelevant.
This may seem ridiculous to you but it does seem plausible to me. I see it as similar to current theories about the abilities and handicaps of autistic savants. Some doctors and scientists do believe that their filters that allow them to function properly in every day life are disabled but this also enables them to "see" things that the rest of us cannot comprehend. Life is fluid and evolving at all times. I have read that in a totally dark room a human being can detect the light of a single photon. The sensing capacities of other species can be practically unbelievable such as the Mantis shrimp that has been proven to be able to not only see binocularly with each eye but it can also see infrared and ultraviolet. The sum of our sensing capacities may be well beyond the individual ability of each sense organ. I think it could be considered ridiculous to close one's mind to the possible sensing capacities of human beings. I do understand the concept of the indirectness of perception from our sense organs but I don't think that rules out direct perception of existence by whatever it is in us that finds itself aware.
The examples you site have little to do with the claim that hallucinogens can allow us to see things in the physical world which we can normally not.
For our brains to perceive anything it must interact with our sense organs. Meaning it must interact with matter. However it is possible that forces exist which do interact with matter but do not interact with our sense organs. In fact we know of many examples, x-rays, gravity, radio-waves,....in fact the majority of the EM field. However we can build machine sense organs to detect these forces and particles, which operate on the fact that they interact with matter then they change this interaction into a "change" that we can see (a sensor). If a force does not interact with matter it makes NO difference to us if it exists or not. This is the theory behind parallel universes. This is why if ghosts existed and people could perceive them they would HAVE to obey ALL classical LAWS of physics.
If these things exist and interact with matter we may not be able to see them but we could absolutely detect them. Furthermore even if we could not detect them we would have to have sensory organs for them to be able to perceive them while on hallucinogens. How would the HA active these organs, why are these organs here, how did they evolve? It just does not add up. It is impossible.
I agree that Hallucinogens can allow you to see things differently as they shift the functioning of your thoughts. They can allow you to see things in novel ways but these things are always detectable just that the percept itself differs. There is more to perception than raw sensory experience pixels, understanding and learned cultural archetypes are also involved. Many things go into a perception. Think about the first time you drank BEER and didn't like it. Now you likely find it enjoyable. What has changed? The input coming in is exactly the same. If these perceptual processes (emotional, sensory, logical) are altered novel perceptions will arrise. This is very different than seeing things that exist that we can not normaly see although it can create a new view of the world that can be life changing to most people.
When taking a drug known to alter higher level cortical areas involved in conscious perception what do you expect? This doesn't mean the hallucinations are real. These hallucinations always happen to be in senses which we have all the time (sound, visual...). HA can not allow you to have new senses (synasthesia maybe) and can not create new realms of qualia. Thus these experiences (hallucinations) if real should be detectable all the time by the sense organs if they truly existed but they do NOT so they can NOT be detected until a drug which causes you to hallucinate is taken.
Also the types of visuals are definitely in most cases culturally influenced. I just do not see how there are always Egyptian pharaohs flying around the room and I just can't see them until I take DMT. It just seems strange.
The hallucinations result from activity of HA on the circuits which create complex organized world views.