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Is the DMT-induced alternate reality purely a synthesis of the human mind?

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Nime

Rising Star
Hey everyone, i was just downloading/reading the site's 'files' page and files. I found a lot of useful info. If you haven't checked it out i suggest you do so!

In a PDF titles, "Interpertations of DMT reality" i found a line asking "Is the DMT-induced alternate reality purely a synthesis of the human mind? Or does the DMT reality have the characteritics
of an objective place?" SWIM has been pondering this question every since trying this stuff, but SWIM isleaning on it is synthesized in our minds. Then again SWIM has not had too many breakthroughs (once SWIMs first time) then SWIM decided to really take it slowly. All in all SWIM has smoked DMT maybe about 10 times.

SWIM is really curious to what all you guys think
 
I voted "Purely a synthesis of the human mind" because I believe that 99% of what you see is just a projection of your own imagination. However, I do believe that in that state of mind you can have contact with other entities, such as God, past relatives, etc., and that some of these are real, but the majority of what is seen is just imagined. In that state of mind many people can cause things to appear at will. This shows that the human imagination is capable of guiding what is seen. However, in that state of mind, human’s are hypersensitive, and also capable of tuning into other spiritual beings.

So my vote is somewhat a mixed vote, because on one hand, I believe most of what is seen is much like a dream, purely imagined, but some of the entities seen, while their visual representation might be imagined, their presence can be real.

One time SWIM had contact with God on ayahuasca. SWIM did not believe it was God. However, God told SWIM about many future events that were impossible for anyone to predict. Every single one came true as the weeks thereafter passed. Every detail of every event God said would happen was predicted with 100% accuracy. That was completely impossible. It had to have been God. There is no way SWIM’s mind could have predicted the events that happen with 100% accuracy. SWIM was totally amazed. It was actually very shocking because SWIM was an atheist. After that experience SWIM now believes in God.
 
I voted for Co-exists although I still debate this issue with myself when I am this side of hyperspace. When I'm in hyperspace it's like it's so obvious that there's no debate. I am pretty much of the conclusion that much of the psychedelic experience is the turning off the filters that the brain uses to facilitate our focus on our particular niche in existence and that what we experience with the filters down is no less a true view of reality. I also believe that we can easily delude ourselves by our conclusions about the meaning of non-filtered reality.
 
Ron thats an amazing story. Psychedelics also gave way for me to believe in God. I was the biggest skeptic till things started to happen that couldn't be coincidences. Id have to agree that a lot of things that pop up are imagination related, but I also think thats where we connect to the unknown. I voted co-exists with our reality, even though its not so cut and dry. Im on the fence but I do think there is definite realness to the experience beyond a certain point like you mentioned, entities, ancestors etc.
 
Everything that you experience is generated by the mind. You never interact with an actual reality. You receive information from the sense organs in the form of patterns of electrical and chemical input. The brain interprets this information and generates a model of reality which is heavily influenced by culture and past experiences.

Hallucinogens act on areas of the brain involved in generating higher level perception and cognitive processes. This is known. It is no wonder they alter experience in a complex fashion. Sensory input is not required for the generation of complex related perceptions. Every night when one dreams complex episodes are experiences independent of any sensory input.

To perceive anything you require a sense organ. Thus even if a portion of reality is not normally sensed it can never be unless novel sense organs are generated. The last time I check hallucinogens did not make us grow new sense organs. They act on the circuits which generate complex experience and perception. This idea of hallucinogens shutting off the filters is ridiculous we do not have the organs to perceive these "other" things as they do not interact with matter (in which case we could detect them) and thus even if they do exist are irrelevant. This is the same idea of a parallel universe. We could not perceive another world without of sense organs and considering when people are perceiving these "alien realms" there sense organs remain behind it seems far more likely that the higher circuitry of the brain are generating these worlds.


Psychedelics have shown me how powerful the brain can be and how the brain is capable of generating complex information when randomly disrupted independent of sensory input. This likely has to do with the very nature of perception and subjective experience. Psychedelics have nothing to do with god however they act on high levels of the cortex involved in these philosophical questions and allow experiences of novel views thus may interpret these experiences as religious. However for myself hallucinogens have shown me the power of nature itself rather than god. There is no way for any of us to know for sure however the idea of a watch maker god is completely unfounded. There is no support for this view and it makes little logical sense.

Nature is able to self organize and generate complexity out of underlying chaos. Each novel property that emerges out from the chaotic system shifts the direct of future organization (downward causation). Circular causality is where emergent properties further influence the underlying state of the system which influence the emergent property and so on. Nature seems to obey this mathematical behavior. A complex state arises which is more than the sum of its parts.
 
as much as I appreciate the scientific explanations...
I don't think science can currently explain why some of us are receiving intergalactic transmissions...

hyperspace either co exists all around us, or is being beamed at Earth by a very high powered ... thing. just my opinion...I know it's insane.


one thing I am certain of...hyperspace is consciousness...and consciousness is all connected...whatever that means.8)
 
It's all ones beliefs and perceptions. No one can prove each other wrong here, there is no wrong or right. Science is the facts that we can grasp from our reality. Spirituality cannot be explained or proven with facts. It can be hinted at, but I dont think we will ever get the whole picture. The mystery is always there creating more mystery for us to discover or ponder. This is were faith and trust become important to spirituality minded individuals. I see nature as just another form of God. I cannot explain God, but I dont think hes some guy somewhere sending people to hell.
 
bufoman said:
This idea of hallucinogens shutting off the filters is ridiculous we do not have the organs to perceive these "other" things as they do not interact with matter (in which case we could detect them) and thus even if they do exist are irrelevant.
This may seem ridiculous to you but it does seem plausible to me. I see it as similar to current theories about the abilities and handicaps of autistic savants. Some doctors and scientists do believe that their filters that allow them to function properly in every day life are disabled but this also enables them to "see" things that the rest of us cannot comprehend. Life is fluid and evolving at all times. I have read that in a totally dark room a human being can detect the light of a single photon. The sensing capacities of other species can be practically unbelievable such as the Mantis shrimp that has been proven to be able to not only see binocularly with each eye but it can also see infrared and ultraviolet. The sum of our sensing capacities may be well beyond the individual ability of each sense organ. I think it could be considered ridiculous to close one's mind to the possible sensing capacities of human beings. I do understand the concept of the indirectness of perception from our sense organs but I don't think that rules out direct perception of existence by whatever it is in us that finds itself aware.
 
69ron said:
I voted "Purely a synthesis of the human mind" because I believe that 99% of what you see is just a projection of your own imagination. However, I do believe that in that state of mind you can have contact with other entities, such as God, past relatives, etc., and that some of these are real, but the majority of what is seen is just imagined. In that state of mind many people can cause things to appear at will. This shows that the human imagination is capable of guiding what is seen. However, in that state of mind, human’s are hypersensitive, and also capable of tuning into other spiritual beings.

This is somewhat what i believe as well. If i am not mistaking, somewhere in the book "Inner Paths to Outer Space" it is suggested that we are looking in the wrong places for 'aliens' and other beings. They are within our mind already, weather they tap into, or are already there, or were there is another story. But i believe it possible that we are taping into entities that we once were or were part of, maybe in a evolutionary sense.
 
memo said:
bufoman said:
This idea of hallucinogens shutting off the filters is ridiculous we do not have the organs to perceive these "other" things as they do not interact with matter (in which case we could detect them) and thus even if they do exist are irrelevant.
This may seem ridiculous to you but it does seem plausible to me. I see it as similar to current theories about the abilities and handicaps of autistic savants. Some doctors and scientists do believe that their filters that allow them to function properly in every day life are disabled but this also enables them to "see" things that the rest of us cannot comprehend. Life is fluid and evolving at all times. I have read that in a totally dark room a human being can detect the light of a single photon. The sensing capacities of other species can be practically unbelievable such as the Mantis shrimp that has been proven to be able to not only see binocularly with each eye but it can also see infrared and ultraviolet. The sum of our sensing capacities may be well beyond the individual ability of each sense organ. I think it could be considered ridiculous to close one's mind to the possible sensing capacities of human beings. I do understand the concept of the indirectness of perception from our sense organs but I don't think that rules out direct perception of existence by whatever it is in us that finds itself aware.

The examples you site have little to do with the claim that hallucinogens can allow us to see things in the physical world which we can normally not.

For our brains to perceive anything it must interact with our sense organs. Meaning it must interact with matter. However it is possible that forces exist which do interact with matter but do not interact with our sense organs. In fact we know of many examples, x-rays, gravity, radio-waves,....in fact the majority of the EM field. However we can build machine sense organs to detect these forces and particles, which operate on the fact that they interact with matter then they change this interaction into a "change" that we can see (a sensor). If a force does not interact with matter it makes NO difference to us if it exists or not. This is the theory behind parallel universes. This is why if ghosts existed and people could perceive them they would HAVE to obey ALL classical LAWS of physics.

If these things exist and interact with matter we may not be able to see them but we could absolutely detect them. Furthermore even if we could not detect them we would have to have sensory organs for them to be able to perceive them while on hallucinogens. How would the HA active these organs, why are these organs here, how did they evolve? It just does not add up. It is impossible.

I agree that Hallucinogens can allow you to see things differently as they shift the functioning of your thoughts. They can allow you to see things in novel ways but these things are always detectable just that the percept itself differs. There is more to perception than raw sensory experience pixels, understanding and learned cultural archetypes are also involved. Many things go into a perception. Think about the first time you drank BEER and didn't like it. Now you likely find it enjoyable. What has changed? The input coming in is exactly the same. If these perceptual processes (emotional, sensory, logical) are altered novel perceptions will arrise. This is very different than seeing things that exist that we can not normaly see although it can create a new view of the world that can be life changing to most people.

When taking a drug known to alter higher level cortical areas involved in conscious perception what do you expect? This doesn't mean the hallucinations are real. These hallucinations always happen to be in senses which we have all the time (sound, visual...). HA can not allow you to have new senses (synasthesia maybe) and can not create new realms of qualia. Thus these experiences (hallucinations) if real should be detectable all the time by the sense organs if they truly existed but they do NOT so they can NOT be detected until a drug which causes you to hallucinate is taken.


Also the types of visuals are definitely in most cases culturally influenced. I just do not see how there are always Egyptian pharaohs flying around the room and I just can't see them until I take DMT. It just seems strange.

The hallucinations result from activity of HA on the circuits which create complex organized world views.
 
slidewinder said:
as much as I appreciate the scientific explanations...
I don't think science can currently explain why some of us are receiving intergalactic transmissions...

hyperspace either co exists all around us, or is being beamed at Earth by a very high powered ... thing. just my opinion...I know it's insane.


one thing I am certain of...hyperspace is consciousness...and consciousness is all connected...whatever that means.8)


Please explain what types of intergalactic transmissions you have been receiving? As I know many many people who have tripped many many times and NEVER had such experiences or if they did quickly realized it was all imagined. Hallucinogens can not give you any new information which you did not already have. Many people have tried (Terrence McKenna, James Kent) and failed to receive new input always old altered information. Try it next time.

I saw a very vivid image of jesus on my arms once while tripping. If I was naive I would have interpreted this as a religious moment and became a christian but this is ridiculous I took a hallucinogen if this happened sober I would be amazed or in truth concerned. I do not claim to understand exactly how hallucinogens work (NO ONE KNOWS). They do complex things and create complex states of consciousness. This is what chemicals do to the brain. The brain is a computer which runs on electricity and chemicals if you alter these things you alter the functioning of the emergent mind. Many drugs and even electrical stimulation can also create these complex experiences (you guys call hyperspace). If parts of the physical brain are removed these experiences can NOT occur. The brain constructs ALL that you know. It is god, it is all powerful.


the brain is powerful if it is altered it will create a seemingly unified functional interpretation of the chaos. This is where hyperspace comes from. Also this hyperspace is never the same (or very rarely). The experiences (especially break throughs) themselves change (The content, the landscape, the types of visuals, the meaning of the visuals). Even the beings change for most people. There is no consistency or very little in the experiences. It is also influenced by the set your body is in and a variety of culturally influenced parameters.
 
I disagree with you immensely and I'm O.K. with that. Not that I have any beliefs...just observations. I know many people who have tripped, too. Most of them are just going through their own circuitry. There are ways out of your self, though...and into a connected network of intelligence that spans past locally and universally.

I agree, hallucinogens will not give you any new information.
The information is being sent from somewhere. It is carried on a signal. There is also the collective information that humans have gathered which is accessible as well. There's all kinds of information, from all kinds of different sources.

I've never read that aliens inoculated planets. This is something I was shown.
I never knew the "soul" could be sucked up into the network we're all connected to (to be thoroughly examined), this was something I was shown.
I never knew I could send messages to people that I know via the mind and have them receive them until I tried, and focused, and received e-mails back from a few of my dear friends.
I can not believe any of this is happening, but it is.
I never thought I would be able to travel to other places not only on earth, but out there in space. I know what I've seen...I know this universal experiment of ours is capable of sprouting eyes almost anywhere.

Some of it is created by us, some of it is created by them. That's just what I think. Hyperspace is a dazzling light show as much as it is a transport device.


p.s. I also think there is some complex mathematics involved with hyperspacial visions that humans will someday crack to reveal great wisdom! If only there were some legal hyperspacial think tanks set up. The future is glorious.
 
Just because you had these experiences does not mean that they are real. If you could have these experiences independently of taking a chemical which acts on the machinery of the brain which generates consciousness I would be impressed. I have had bizarre trips as well as dreams where people have told me things but that does not mean that these things are real. They are generated by my mind. Many people have these experiences but always in an altered state of consciousness.

How can you perceive these lands with out your sense organs? Direct beaming? To what? there must be a receptor. People have looked. Hallucinogens can not allow you to travel in some magical reality this disobeys all logical laws of physics. It is impossible to perceive things without sense organs for this. It may sound cool but it just is not supported (like Castaneda which I am sure influenced your take on all this if not you may want to check him out)

Many people have attempted to study telepathy. They can not because it does not happen. It is either coincidences, misunderstandings or imagination. How about you beam me a thought of your email address and I will send you an email... It is fine you believe it but it is faith based and lacks any actual observations. It is always anecdotal evidence.
 
Bufoman I would not lie about my telepathic experiences. If you want, I could certainly try. The thing is, it only works sometimes. I don't know why...I am still young. But it HAS worked.

For instance...I once had a dream there was a worm in my stomach and it scared me because I could feel it and it hurt...it was huge...this was just a reflection of an ulcer I had. Anyway, I woke up from this dream and I immediately began to meditate, laying down.

I asked my friend for help who lives far away. I don't know why. I had never tried this before...I was compelled to do this. So I focused on her and her name and simply asked for help, not thinking much of it.

The next day I received an e-mail from her saying she felt I had a worm inside of me...and that she thinks I have a hernia...
It was SO WEIRD It blew my mind!!!!
I was like...wow...telepathy really is fucking possible and consciousness really is connected just like I had always thought but never could prove.

And yet, I can't prove this to you. I am well aware at how crazy I sound :]
This was just one instance of the many strange experiences I have had in my life.
And you know what...I don't think ANY of this is real!
 
I just do not believe it actually occurred that way. There is likely an explanation for this. Someone was told, or it was talked about and got to that person or it is coincidence although a strange one. Maybe you were talking about worms together a while before who knows but there is likely a more probable explanation than magic. I am not saying you are a lair I just think in all cases people have these "INTERPRETATIONS" there is a much more logical explanation.

I have thought I saw ghosts but I make myself go back and check and there has always been an explanation. Sometimes they are just harder to see and sometimes coincidences happen. Many studies have been done to test these hypothesis and they have found that they do not exist or they can not be tested (which makes no logical sense why they would not be). I have also thought of a song and then it came on the radio several times but I do not interpret it as I caused the song to occur. Coincidences happen, and we attach meaning to them when they do. But think of all the times theyt do not happen. It would be much stranger if they never happened.
 
It doesn't matter if you do not believe because what I say I know is true. I never spoke of my dream to anyone. I never write them down, and I never talk about them...they are very personal and deep sometimes.
This person who I contacted is very into what she calls "Energy work" and doesn't even work with entheogens. I was very skeptical for...my entire life...until that morning.
This was last year. Things only get stranger from there.
It was as if I sent her a packet of consciousness that contained the feelings that I felt...thats what she said.
 
I am not trying to call you a liar. I believe you are telling the truth about how you interpreted the situation.

Sometimes people who are "psychic" are great at tricking people into giving them information that they think the psychic new. They may not even consciously be doing it. But if a third party observer was present they could see the other explanation. Other possibilities exist. You could have been talking about it with her a while before and something sparked the thought in both of you. What if you both happened to watch a show about worms the week before.... I do not know but there are other possibilities you must admit. They may be unlikely but strange coincidences do occur. Imagine life without coincidences.... it is just how you interpret the coincidences when they do happen.
 
So...my good friend tricked me by telling me she felt I had a worm in my stomach the day after I asked her for help telepathically? Just like my dream? Well that makes sense!
None of this does. I know.
 
hahaha I have no idea what occurred as I was not there. I am just saying there could be another explanation. I am giving examples unless I could see exactly what happened I have no idea. Also there may not be any explanation as coincidences do occur although this would be a strange one they do occur.

How do I know what exactly was said. There are so many possibilities. Does your freind always have these experiences. Has she ever been wrong?

People have had dreams about people getting hurt and then called them to make sure they were okay. Most times they are and no one thinks anything of it. Other times they are hurt and the person thinks they are telepathic. I am just saying there could be an explanation other than telepathy.
 
Bufoman - what you say assumes that the current known laws of physics should also apply to conciousness and experiences in altered states.
I believe that the measurable physical world we inhabit is just one level of reality. To me it is conciousness, energy, vibration manifested as physical forms. I believe there are other manifestations of energy and conciousness that are most of the time not visible or known to us.
I believe that psychoactive/teacher plants, as well as showing us parts of ourselves, can also link us to the greater conciousness network of the universe, where we may meet manifestations of conciousness in different forms - entities or spirits as some may call them, as well as facets of ourselves.

I also think it doesnt really matter whether they are externally 'real' or not. At the time of experience it is totally real, therefore in my book it is real. Who is to say that just because an experience does not have anything measurable about it that it is not real?? I think it is naive to assume that science and physics can explain everything... it can explain a lot, but it ends with the measurable world. Beyond that our tool for exploration is our being. Plants and chemicals are gateways which open doors to different realities, both within and without. Some can guide us, others merely open the door for us.
 
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