Is the DMT-induced alternate reality purely a synthesis of the human mind?

[۩]

n, n-DMT CAN be a hallucinogen...but it is also a neurotransmitter.
Like serotonin, it aids one in perceiving certain spectrums of reality.
I believe hyperspace to just be in a higher octave of waves not normally perceivable.

Both of these neurotransmitters allow us to see this universe...the layers of this universe. Consciousness weaves through both of them, and then some.

 

[bufoman]

DMT is involved in normal physiology. It is involved in generating everyday waking consciousness. There is nothing that suggests otherwise and even this is not yet proven. All these other ideas are wishful thinking nothing more than religious ideology. If it was true why couldn't it be tested? I have some questions:

Why is it this hyperspace not perceivable?

Why does DMT allow it to be perceived?

Why is DMT induced hyperspace not consistent?

Why is the experience dependent on the physical setting?

Why is the "hyperspace" culturally influenced?

How does DMT allow it to be perceived?

What is the piont?

Where does this hyperspace exist?

 

[69ron]

You did NOT understand anything I said there.

Science cannot explain reality or consciousness. It never has been able to. Never.

 

[۩]

It's all in the waves. That's all I can say. Wisdom's like a symphony. :]

 

[bufoman]

You did NOT understand anything I said there.

Science cannot explain reality or consciousness. It never has been able to. Never.

Science is a relatively new invention. It is actively working on these problems and has a much better track record than any other system. It will explain these things just as it has explain a lot of other phenomenon it has a ways to go and it is not perfect but it is a reliable system.

I am confident that you do not understand science. I honestly do not mean this as an attack. Religion is a bunch of made up nonsense. That is it. if you choose to believe it that is fine but anyone can make up anything they want and by your logic it must be true. I am not going to go back and forth with you as it will do no good.

 

[69ron]

Reality cannot even be proven to exist using science!

All we can do with science is measure things, predict things based on our finding, etc., it cannot prove reality exists.

I had a dream once where the people in the dream were trying to prove the dream was real. They were using all sorts of scientific tests, all the top scientists of the world were working together and they thought they were getting close to finally proving that they were not just dream characters within a dream. Then I woke up. All lost. All their work down the drain.

Think about that a little. Maybe you'll understand my point? Maybe not.

 

[۩]

DMT is involved in normal physiology. It is involved in generating everyday waking consciousness. There is nothing that suggests otherwise and even this is not yet proven. All these other ideas are wishful thinking nothing more than religious ideology. If it was true why couldn't it be tested? I have some questions:

1 Why is it this hyperspace not perceivable?

2 Why does DMT allow it to be perceived?

3 Why is DMT induced hyperspace not consistent?

4 Why is the experience dependent on the physical setting?

5 Why is the "hyperspace" culturally influenced?

6 How does DMT allow it to be perceived?

7 What is the piont?

8 Where does this hyperspace exist?

1. Because it is in a higher octave, and you need the other neurotransmitter to perceive.

2. because DMT is the other neurotransmitter! It was given a very specific and special role!

3. I think it is rather consistent. Although there are thousands of variables. Intentions included.

4. Do you want to get dissolved or not?

5. Because all consciousness is connected, especially on Earth.

6. How? It's like a switch that let's the higher waves in. You have some good questions...but....they won't be answered scientifically for a very long time!

7. There is no point, it's curved.

8. Everywhere in the universe where there is the light. (Oh, how vague! :lol: )

 

[bufoman]

I know exactly what you mean however what you are talking about is different than the discussion. I see what you mean that you can not prove their existance through science but this is not necessary as of course they exist otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation and science would not exist. You can still study their properties and relationships through science.

Reality is real because I am here now. Consciousness is real because I am here now. It is all how you define it. Consciousness depends on matter. Science will be able to explain how the brain creates consciousness (or the other way around!). As far as proving their existence that is different however this is not necessary as we know they exist. Science measures the properties of these systems and studies how they are related. This science can do. there is no need to prove they exist as this is obvious. If they did not exist than neither would science.

Science measures reality through the eyes of consciousness. The very fact that science exists proves the existance of both reality and consciousness.

You have a misconception of science. It is a powerful tool. It is a way to explain relationships and causations through observations.

 

[bufoman]

DMT is involved in normal physiology. It is involved in generating everyday waking consciousness. There is nothing that suggests otherwise and even this is not yet proven. All these other ideas are wishful thinking nothing more than religious ideology. If it was true why couldn't it be tested? I have some questions:

1 Why is it this hyperspace not perceivable?

2 Why does DMT allow it to be perceived?

3 Why is DMT induced hyperspace not consistent?

4 Why is the experience dependent on the physical setting?

5 Why is the "hyperspace" culturally influenced?

6 How does DMT allow it to be perceived?

7 What is the piont?

8 Where does this hyperspace exist?

1. Because it is in a higher octave, and you need the other neurotransmitter to perceive.

2. because DMT is the other neurotransmitter! It was given a very specific and special role!

3. I think it is rather consistent. Although there are thousands of variables. Intentions included.

4. Do you want to get dissolved or not?

5. Because all consciousness is connected, especially on Earth.

6. How? It's like a switch that let's the higher waves in. You have some good questions...but....they won't be answered scientifically for a very long time!

7. There is no point, it's curved.

8. Everywhere in the universe where there is the light. (Oh, how vague! :lol: )

Ok I assume you are just messing with me.

The other neurotransmitter? There are hundreds of neurotransmitters type compounds in the brain if not more. Furthermore serotonin is not involved in directly carrying any sensory information. It is involved in arousal and gating information through its activity on the cortex from the brainstem (raphe nuclei). Hallucinogens act on many other receptors in the brain than 5-HT. Endogenous DMT is likely involved in normal physiological processes than any magical processes. See Wallach 2009. Most people (greater than 90%) never have altered states of consciousness yet have DMT in their brains.

 

[۩]

I speculate the reason it's there is a joke of sorts, as if they're messing with me, too.
(aka it will play a key role in the future, while it lays dormant in it's normal minuscule endogenous operation)

 

[bufoman]

Playing a role in the generation of subjective experience does not sound minuscule to me.

 

[۩]

yeah probably not. consciousness is connected. DMT is a waypoint.

 

[69ron]

I know exactly what you mean however what you are talking about is different than the discussion. I see what you mean that you can not prove their existance through science but this is not necessary as of course they exist otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation and science would not exist. You can still study their properties and relationships through science.

Reality is real because I am here now. Consciousness is real because I am here now. It is all how you define it. Consciousness depends on matter. Science will be able to explain how the brain creates consciousness (or the other way around!). As far as proving their existence that is different however this is not necessary as we know they exist. Science measures the properties of these systems and studies how they are related. This science can do. there is no need to prove they exist as this is obvious. If they did not exist than neither would science.

Science measures reality through the eyes of consciousness. The very fact that science exists proves the existance of both reality and consciousness.

You have a misconception of science. It is a powerful tool. It is a way to expain relationships and causations through observations.

You have no clue what I'm talking about! Not even a tiny bit! I'm not sure if I should break out laughing or what.

Oh well, I tried to explain it. You just don't get it.

I believe I understand science far more than you ever will. You don't understand it's limitations.

 

[bufoman]

I know exactly what you mean however what you are talking about is different than the discussion. I see what you mean that you can not prove their existance through science but this is not necessary as of course they exist otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation and science would not exist. You can still study their properties and relationships through science.

Reality is real because I am here now. Consciousness is real because I am here now. It is all how you define it. Consciousness depends on matter. Science will be able to explain how the brain creates consciousness (or the other way around!). As far as proving their existence that is different however this is not necessary as we know they exist. Science measures the properties of these systems and studies how they are related. This science can do. there is no need to prove they exist as this is obvious. If they did not exist than neither would science.

Science measures reality through the eyes of consciousness. The very fact that science exists proves the existance of both reality and consciousness.

You have a misconception of science. It is a powerful tool. It is a way to expain relationships and causations through observations.

You have no clue what I'm talking about! Not even a tiny bit! I'm not sure if I should break out laughing or what.

Oh well, I tried to explain it. You just don't get it.

I believe I understand science far more than you ever will. You don't understand it's limitations.

Ron you have absolutely no idea what science is about and this has been quite clear for a long time. I honestly do not think you even understand what the basis of the scientific method is. Let alone its limitations: Godels theorem and the uncertainty principle.

Just because you are frustrated does not mean you have to attack my character.

What I said above is true, weather or not it is what you meant who knows. I really do not care. Your attack means nothing to me so go ahead and laugh. You have your beliefs that is fine. You can make up anything you want and think it is true. It is your right.

 

[bufoman]

By the way I do understand exactly what you mean and you know this if you actually read my statement. I assume you just do not understand my response or do not like it which is more likely. Which is why you are attempting to attack my character. Very childless I assumed you were better than that.

You are claiming you can not prove the existence of reality using science. This is different than studying reality. It is not necessary to prove its existence as we all know it exists. This is not the goal of science. Furthermore the mind is an emergent property dependent on the state of the physical world. Thus we can study it through science. If we manipulate the underlying architecture of the brain and observe the changes in the mind that occur we can study. This is called science.

 

[69ron]

Bufoman, what's really funny is that you remind me of one of the dream characters in my dream who was insisting he was real. All the while I kept saying to him that he was not real, that he was just a dream character. Then he got all these books and theories together and tried to show me how reality works and that he's not a dream character and all. Eventually all the major scientists were working to try to prove their reality was not a dream.

It's funny because you're using the same argument one dream character did. Ultimately I woke up, and his dream world vanished because he was nothing more than a reality that was created by my mind.

It's funny. I see so many parallels in this argument and that dream I had.

You just can't use science to explain reality. It doesn't work for that. No one has ever been able to explain what reality is with science. No one. It's never been done in the history of mankind.

In the DMT "reality" people see things that are very different from what they see in this reality. That doesn't mean what they see isn't real. It also doesn't mean that what they see is real. You cannot prove it either way.

Perhaps DMT "reality" is the real reality and this one is not? If that was true, science would not be able to prove it because science doesn't exist in "hyperspace".

 

[bufoman]

I do not understand you sometimes. It is like you are arguing without understanding my arguments. Honestly read what I wrote. Every argument we have is because you misunderstand something.

Listen:

You DO NOT NEED TO PROVE THE EXISTANCE OF REALITY. Of course science can not prove it in a classical sense however the existence of science proves that reality does exist. Reality is what science measures it is everything. This is different than your dream scenario. Proving the existence of reality is not the goal of science. Science observes what happens with in reality. Its interactions and the things which emerge.

Of course reality exists.

The mind is a different matter. You can prove its existence through science as you can alter the brain and see how the brain changes. You can not alter reality.

Science has limitations other than this (if this is even considered a limitation) as well but I am not going to get into them with you now.

 

[bufoman]

You can prove if what they are seeing is generated by the brain or not. What we know about the brain suggests that this experience is not real but results from the activity of these chemicals on areas of the CNS that are involved in generating consciousness. Go back and look at my arguments if you want as I am not restating them.

 

[memo]

Cutting edge science(Quantum Mechanics)is now leaning toward the notion that some things by their nature are neither explainable or measurable. I really do commend the attempt to maintain objectivity in the face of subjective experience. I do think that you may look back to "The very fact that science exists proves the existence of both reality and consciousness" to be little less than a faith based statement. The closer we examine reality the more ineffable it becomes.

 

[۩]

All is subjective to the observer,
and yet
the observer is interconnected with all other observers universally...