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Is the DMT sensation real or cerebral hypoxia?

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skinwalker

skinwalker

Rising Star
For SWIM everytime he has smoked DMT it is very much like a HYPER real experience. however after reading about the effects of cerebral hypoxia and seeing several papers on a connection between smoking DMT and cerebral hypoxia, i'm curious if this (smoking dmt) really is nothing more than a change in the brain tissue's oxygen level...and possible brain damage. I realize that we all create DMT naturally however this massive influx of dmt generated from smoking i'm curious if it creates a hypoxic state that is actually mildly and briefly DAMAGING to ones brain? I want to believe that this is truely a spiritual experience rather than a self-induced brain disturbance.
 
skinwalker said:
For SWIM everytime he has smoked DMT it has very like a HYPER real experience. however after reading about the effects of cerebral hypoxia and seeing several papers on a connection between smoking DMT and cerebral hypoxia i'm curious if this really is nothing more than a change in the oxygen level to the brain generation a very naturually explainable high state...and possible brain damage. I realize that we all create DMT however this level created from smoking i'm curious if it creates this hypoxic state that is actually mildly and briefly DAMAGING to ones brain? I want to believe that this is truely a spiritual experience rather than a self induced brain disturbance.
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could you please provide links or references to these said papers?

just want to read it for myself..
 

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Its a leap of 'faith' as to whether or not the DMT experience is truly spiritual and is not amenable to being proved as such conclusively.Cerebral hypoxia doesnt explain the observed effects for a number of reasons-not least of which is that a similar effect can be achieved by taking DMT orally with a MAO inhibitor.

A lungful of any smoke will mean that during that breath, less oxygen will be taken in.The oxygen carrying capacity of your hemoglobin is such that, under normal circumstances, the next normal breath will soon make up for what was 'missed' before.
 
yeah, I gotta say this doesn't seem like a good theory.

I mean. there's people who have smoked it over 1000 times...and they are perfectly healthy.

just doesn't add up. The plain evidence that is..
 
rather than being these ignorant defenders of DMT why doesnt someone take a moment and read some of the papers on those links and other various articles. Keep in mind 30 years ago everyone defended cigarettes adamantly that they were safe too... the hypoxic state isnt caused in your BLOOD LEVELS i clearly said your train tissue, thats why its CEREBRAL rather than regular Hypoxia...

all dmt crosses the blood/brain barrier. it seems like the psyadelic community defends DMT with a fervent zeal while actually knowing very little about its true physical effects the brain. I sure as hell dont know!! but i'm willing to ask questions, i'm alot more worried about damaging my brain than i am my lungs!!

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even "mr yuck" at the bottom of the ads says smoking isnt hazardous, its fun, and cool! Sounds alot like the *potentially* misleading propaganda spread amongst the physadelic community today...

Not trying to be a downer, just seems like somthing this powerful is likewise going to have some sort of equally powerful downside, even if it is yet not common knowledge as this really is a ill studied drug.
 
Cerebral hypoxia can be brought about in a variety of ways and each of these may exist alone or more commonly in some combination.

1.Low partial pressure of oxygen in the inspired air/gas/vapor whatever;

2.Low blood pressure;

3.Abnormal heart rate and/or rhythm;

4.Lung disease-affecting the airways, the actual lung tissue or the pulmonary circulation;

5.Neuromuscular weakness of the thorax;

6.Excessive CO2 in the blood-as a result for example of chronic bronchitis/emphysema, being acidotic as a result of septicemia or diabetes getting out of hand;

7.Respiratory depression due to for example opiates alone or combined with benzos or alcohol;

8.Altitude or other factors which alter how your hemoglobin carries/releases O2 such nitrite poisoning/carbon monoxide poisoning/blood pH;

9.Specific arterial constriction in the brain following for example as a body response to a brain hemorrhage.

Im not of the school of thought that DMT is 100% safe and hence ok to use as you will; it just doesnt strike me that cerebral hypoxia as a mechanism explains its action.One could artificially induce cerebral hypoxia by manipulating the above mechanisms and you wouldnt end up with a DMT-like experience.Focal vasoconstriction may play a part but its more the interplay between DMT and certain receptors (mainly 5HT) thats the reason for the observed effects.
 
thank you for looking into the matter Corpus. When i imagine suffocating (to the point of death or near death) I definatly somehow sense it would be a state very similiar to a DMT experience.... thank god i've never tested that theory however.


en.wikipedia.org

Cerebral hypoxia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
evere cerebral hypoxia and anoxia is usually caused by traumatic events. Examples include choking, drowning, strangulation, smoke inhalation, drug overdoses, crushing of the trachea, status asthmaticus, and shock.[13]

It is also recreationally self-induced in the fainting game and in erotic asphyxiation.
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such a foolish assumption, i never claimed DMT CAUSES CEREBRAL HYPOXIA the act of triggering such a massive release of DMT is the potential problem. So according to your logic I'm claiming when your dialy naturally building DMT levels without a artificual catalyst, your in effect creating a hypoxic state?? that makes no sense at all. the artifical massive level being generated is theoretically caused by a signal of impending death and/or a unacceptably low level of oxygen in the brain tissue... this is my question. not one of is our NATURAL produced daily dmt going to kill us...

lol go back to blissfully smoking your crackpipe, falling over helplessly, rolling around talking gibberish, and speaking to invisible aliens and cartoon people only you for some reason can see, this all sounds like an average healthy state of mind to me, with zero potential for any brain damage.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

me i'm going to do alittle more reading (from BOTH sides of the fence, experienced users, neutral scientists, and anti drug groups) before/if i do my next extract


hell dont get me wrong guys i'm NOT saying this is necesarily a bad drug, i just think the potential hazards to it and long term effects are poorly known by the health community at this early point. Does anyone have any links to brain scans being done on chronic DMT users? Seems like the evidence is available on every other known drug out there, OTHER than DMT..:?:
 
Yeah, good move-not a theory I would recommend exploring.We all get to find out one day if there are parallels between dying and DMT and even if it is, the knowledge will be yours and yours alone:?
 
I'm with fractal on this one-- DMT is a neurotransmitter, one that I don't think plays with oxygen intake. Admittedly, I haven't read the papers you posted links to.

I would also like to say that the advetisements for cigarettes are just that, advetisements. They are not peer-reviewed studies. Just because the general public thinks something is true doesn't mean it's scientifically considered true.

Then again, by posting the papers, I'm sure you're making that point about us. Further research will follow...
 
skinwalker said:

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Do you guys consider the "research" for consciousness after death 100% bogus? http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=98447&page=1 http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2002/10/55826 http://www.iands.org/research/important_studies/dr._pim_van_lommel_m.d._continuity_of_consciousness.html
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Which one of these links has anything about DMT, as in, dimethyltryptamine, and hypoxia? I cant see anything relevant there.... I see a lot of DMTs that are not dimethyltryptamine and keywords that are located in unrelated parts of the article that do not at all point to DMT causing hypoxia (for example something talking about giving animals DMT, then sacrificing them by C02 hypoxia and then analysing their brains).

Its fine to question about safety but if you're gonna make some speculation, might as well have some better basis and evidence for it. Otherwise its just the same as if someone questions about dmt causing multiple sclerosis and all the evidence given is a keyword search on google scholar with "dmt" and "multiple sclerosis" (that actually shows no single article that has any relevance). If you come up with any relevant reasonable biological pathway of action, theoretical or researched/published about, that would point to the potential danger you're questioning about, then it might be valid to consider this.. Otherwise its baseless fruitless wild speculation imo.

As the poster below mentions, all research conducted with dmt, including long term (oral) use, even with teenagers, has shown no kind of long term damage, the users even scored better in some cognitive tests. You can find the research in this thread


Lastly, I suggest you reconsider how you express yourself:

skinwalker said:
lol go back to blissfully smoking your crackpipe, falling over helplessly, rolling around talking gibberish, and speaking to invisible aliens and cartoon people only you for some reason can see, this all sounds like an average healthy state of mind to me, with zero potential for any brain damage.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
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This confrontational sarcastic and disrespectful tone is unwanted here in this community and does not help you prove your point, it just makes you come across as a not-humble person and worsens the general atmosphere of the thread and of the forum.
 
I will procure links to academic papers at some point, but I do know that studies have been done comparing the brains of regular ayahuasca users (in South America) to the brains of their non-aya using peers, and no brain damage was found, in fact the only difference was that the ayahuasca users had greater dendritic arbor growth (which comes when experiencing new facets of reality).
 
interesting points OP. how and why dmt does what it does is still largely speculative. the community of people using it is fairly large at this point, and there's more than a few people who use it very frequently. i'd think that if the results were caused even in part by hypoxia, there would be more people being hospitalized for permanent brain damage.

then again, i'm only a scientist by hobby. :)
 
skinwalker said:
suc

lol go back to blissfully smoking your crackpipe, falling over helplessly, rolling around talking gibberish, and speaking to invisible aliens and cartoon people only you for some reason can see, this all sounds like an average healthy state of mind to me, with zero potential for any brain damage.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
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A bit of an over-reaction don't ya think?

It is smart of you to get all the information that you can, but no need to flame those who are providing their opinions to your question.

By your logic, would LSD, Mushrooms, 2C-?, Ayahuasca, Peyote also potentially cause cerebral hypoxia as the results are similar in effect to your perceptions?

A couple beers probably causes more brain damage than DMT, but that is just my uninformed opinion. :roll:
 
skinwalker said:
lol go back to blissfully smoking your crackpipe, falling over helplessly, rolling around talking gibberish, and speaking to invisible aliens and cartoon people only you for some reason can see, this all sounds like an average healthy state of mind to me, with zero potential for any brain damage.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
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^lol ok bud:d..maybe do some real research next time, then your links might actaully have some connection to the point you are trying to put forth..instead of claiming things that dont really make sense.
 
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