Just a quick question about "Conspiracy Theories"

[Skitty]

And before the influx of indignation, do not worry, this is not a thread about any sort of theory or trying to push some specific subversive motivations at all. I am just looking to clarify the resistance that exists here towards all things deemed "conspiracy", and the discussion around it.

I totally understand the ideal of keeping paranoia out of this forum, and this is probably a big reason why it is such a great place. However, it seems a bit ironic to discount any and all alternative theories of power structures and social movement on a forum that is by definition, focused on the expansion out of consensus reality.

Is it the fact that saying things like "the powers that be" has become nauseatingly cliche? Because I fully think that it has. BUT, a major part of expanding boundaries for many people is coming to see the falsity of beliefs, and one big whopper of a belief is the social conformity upon which a life has been based.

Perhaps it is only a stage of projection to see the rigid thought structures and social conditioning as insidious or malicious. After all, there really are no problems, right? But, if that conditioning does lead to narrowed consciousness, fear based living, and thus makes large groups of people easier to control, is it such a stretch to be upset about it? Once a taste of autonomy is glimpsed, it seems natural to recoil from the endless chase of approval.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to cheer for any sort of self-righteous anarchic behavior on this forum. I'm pretty well over my interest in the "conspiracy" of society. I'm just wondering how it is that talking about such things (that can seem extremely self-evident at first) has become so taboo as to be explicitly banned?

I've seen a few people break through to what might be called higher self, on various substances, and one of the first and most profound things they tend to realize is that everything they have been taught is a farce. I remember one of my friends coming down from mushrooms just staring with his mouth hung open, watching the news on TV, and slowly shaking his head.

Even if this realization is a projection or transient or paranoid, I feel like allowing people to work through this stage could help them move on to deeper realizations and not get stuck in another demonization of the Other. I know a few gentle words helped me find my way out of this maze, though I wish it had been sooner

 

[Pup Tentacle]

Here's why...

Attitude Page - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

 

[Skitty]

I understand that. Entities are somewhat unsubstantiated as well. Perhaps a "conspiracy playground" could be helpful for people who just can't let go of the possibilities quite yet. When something seems and feels profoundly true, especially when you are inexperienced, just the ability to express it can be invaluable, at least for me.

 

[JourneyToJah]

SnozzleBerry wrote:
There's conspiracy FACT and conspiracy THEORY and people often fold fact into theory, obfuscating truths that need not be. Remember the distinction and there's NO need for conspiracy theories at all (and we can still discuss the pharmaceutical industry's stronghold using facts and statistics that are easily obtainable).

The FBI assassinated and falsely incarcerated the leaders of major political parties in the US. This is conspiracy FACT.
The CIA was involved in weapons for drug deals (Iran/Contra) and then turned around and dumped those drugs into poor, Black urban centers. This is conspiracy FACT.

The US government adds fluoride to the water to calcify your pineal; thus inhibiting pineal production of DMT. This is conspiracy THEORY.
The Air Force utilizes "chem trails" to spray biological agents at high altitudes in order to harm or control the American populace. This is conspiracy THEORY.

If you have your doubts do your research and if you want to talk it here come with FACTS.

Thanks Snozz for that post.

 

[anrchy]

Simple.

It is because this forums sole focus is on scientific data, thought, and facts. Conspiracy theories are mainly generated based on opinion rather than facts. Mostly generated linking similarities together rather than physical evidence that is proven and shown in a manner that Cannot be refuted.

The other reason is, most of the time conspiracy theories generate arguments. Which usually get out of hand, sometimes because everyone's opinion differs about each topic in many ways. Arguments are self defeating in this scenario and do not resonate with this forums WAY of being.

 

[Skitty]

Thanks for the responses guys. It makes perfect sense to try to avoid the endless loops of argument that these things can create. I suppose that there are better places on the internet to discuss all the what-ifs of society.

 

[Cosmicbenji]

Thanks for the responses guys. It makes perfect sense to try to avoid the endless loops of argument that these things can create. I suppose that there are better places on the internet to discuss all the what-ifs of society.

The Kentucky Fried Mouse Forum...
:lol:

 

[Pup Tentacle]

I understand that. Entities are somewhat unsubstantiated as well. Perhaps a "conspiracy playground" could be helpful for people who just can't let go of the possibilities quite yet. When something seems and feels profoundly true, especially when you are inexperienced, just the ability to express it can be invaluable, at least for me.

Nobody is keeping anyone from including wild and wonderful stuff in experience reports. It's just when they are presented as fact or conjectured to be fact.

Here's my example.

Good -> I smoked changa last Friday and had a conversation with a 2 dimensional woodpecker. He confirmed a vision that I had showing tiny lizards running the US government. I understand all this occurred within a DMT trip but I need some help integrating and understanding my experience..

Bad -> I am convinced that tiny lizards are running the government because a 2-dimensional woodpecker told me it was true. Regardless of the fact that I was on DMT, I fear these things could turn out to be a real menace to us all!

... something seems and feels profoundly true...

Right here... this is the real issue. Science is king and facts are proof around these parts. Seeming and feeling don't fit well into conversations requiring fact.

All that being said, I'm all about integrating the ineffable and there being a place to ask for help with that here on the Nexus. Those places already exist.

Peace & Blessings :d

 

[universecannon]

Nobody is keeping anyone from including wild and wonderful stuff in experience reports. It's just when they are presented as fact or conjectured to be fact.

Here's my example.

Good -> I smoked changa last Friday and had a conversation with a 2 dimensional woodpecker. He confirmed a vision that I had showing tiny lizards running the US government. I understand all this occurred within a DMT trip but I need some help integrating and understanding my experience..

Bad -> I am convinced that tiny lizards are running the government because a 2-dimensional woodpecker told me it was true. Regardless of the fact that I was on DMT, I fear these things could turn out to be a real menace to us all!

sounds all too familiar! :d

" Science is king as far as proof"

technically science doesn't "prove" anything but i'll let benzyme unpack that whole schpeel

 

[Pup Tentacle]

edited to avoid true scientific wrath

 

[Vodsel]

It makes perfect sense to try to avoid the endless loops of argument that these things can create.

Actually there's quite a few topics recurring in the Nexus that easily can trigger endless loops of argument. Like dualism/monism, objective science/subjective experience and other philosophical matters.

But there's big differences. Those topics are essentially bound to the entheogenic experience, they can be valuable for learning and integration, and the benefits outweigh the occasional circular struggle. Also, they don't attract the type of audience that discusses CT, and for several reasons you brought up, speculations shoving the topic of DMT and other entheogens inside of the CT nutsack are too easy to make.

And entheogens are very serious stuff.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Another good reason to avoid conspiracy talk:

Either

A) You are talking about something completely false, which is often the case with conspiracy theories. (This is why the scientific approach is so valued, as it helps us overcome our mind's tendencies to find patterns and connections that aren't really there.)

or

B) You are talking about something true, but there's no real hard proof or evidence to support such claims.

In either case, the worst thing a person can do is propagate such ideas openly, as they both feed on people talking about them! They're two big monsters, and their food is word of mouth!

Plus, how lame would this place get if it was also known for talk on conspiracy theories? I know we welcome all folks (who agree to play by the rules) but this is primarily a forum for entheogens. It's not a forum for entheogens and conspiracy theories. If there was a huge influx of peeps coming in to just hash out conspiracy theories, the Mods would be super grumpy!

 

[Alex101]

I think it is for the better. It is a train to nowhere. Generally hovering around conspiracies you just get fear, superstition and ignorance. It is sure easy to think that the source of all the worlds problems is because of some greedy jerk but if you don't even know about the effects of environment on human beings and conditions that generate behavior like greed, then there is not much room for discussion.

Terrence actually said it really spot on in one of the Omnibus videos but i can't remember the exact quote.

 

[dmtskywalker]

interesting topic Here's some ideas. You guys say science is fact everything else is perhaps fiction...really how can we after taking dmt make this statement?

Perhaps all we see in everyday reality is an hallucination and what we see in certain altered states of consciousness is reality. This would disprove much of science. Science is not god, and god is not something possible to prove fact. So does that mean it isn't? I sure hear lots of people talk about god like it is. Who are we to judge whats real whats not? Because scientists, who mostly have never had a psychedelic experience said so? Example, one can and often does say here "i met an entity" Most people don't say i might have met an entity. They say they did, but you see things like that cannot be proven fact through the somewhat loose scientific method, so could it in itself be considered a conspiracy theory. So does that mean its not real?

Because science doesn't take into account the psychedelic experience, it is more than half blind imo and thus cannot deem what is fact or theory. I say all this because rather than just believe what I'm told I like to find my own truths and personally i found things way beyond the narrow scope of science to be way more real than anything considered scientific "fact".

 

[Alex101]

interesting topic Here's some ideas. You guys say science is fact everything else is perhaps fiction...really how can we after taking dmt make this statement?

Perhaps all we see in everyday reality is an hallucination and what we see in certain altered states of consciousness is reality. This would disprove much of science. Science is not god, and god is not something possible to prove fact. So does that mean it isn't? I sure hear lots of people talk about god like it is. Who are we to judge whats real whats not? Because scientists, who mostly have never had a psychedelic experience said so? Example, one can and often does say here "i met an entity" Most people don't say i might have met an entity. They say they did, but you see things like that cannot be proven fact through the somewhat loose scientific method, so could it in itself be considered a conspiracy theory. So does that mean its not real?

Because science doesn't take into account the psychedelic experience, it is more than half blind imo and thus cannot deem what is fact or theory. I say all this because rather than just believe what I'm told I like to find my own truths and personally i found things way beyond the narrow scope of science to be way more real than anything considered scientific "fact".

I think by conspiracy theories its more directed towards government, society, plotting of groups. Entities is more of a personal thing and i never heard of conspiracy entities so to speak.

I just don't think we have a true science because science has become subjected to a collective personal opinion. Science in itself is kind of an evolution of nature through direct human interference. In other words it has no ego. Its just we've attached some cold biological darwinian phylosipihical views on to it. I just get a bit rustled when the 2 are confused. Imagine: Rough technology already exists of seeing through another persons eyes, it was actually used for a cat.. i wonder if we could record a trip? That would be fricken crazy! When the technology gets better, science has another of plenty of reasons to dive in again.

 

[a1pha]

I just don't think we have a true science because science has become subjected to a collective personal opinion.

Then you don't understand science.

The part in bold above is exactly what science aims to remove from the equation.

See: Double-blind, peer-reviewed, verifiable.

 

[dmtskywalker]

I think by conspiracy theories its more directed towards government, society, plotting of groups. Entities is more of a personal thing and i never heard of conspiracy entities so to speak.

heres one :lol:
[youtube]

 

[Alex101]

I just don't think we have a true science because science has become subjected to a collective personal opinion.

Then you don't understand science.

The part in bold above is exactly what science aims to remove from the equation.

See: Double-blind, peer-reviewed, verifiable.

By personal opinion, i mean some views that may still be outdated but we still pursue it regardless of new information. Say some medicinal herb stops the rate of tumor growth in much higher success rates then a pharamceutical drug, but the drug is still being pushed because of profit or personal interest, rather then what scientifically shows as proven to cure at a higher success rate with the herb. Or just taking quantam mechanics or some other field of thought, out of the mainstream of scientific textbooks entirely.

 

[DeMenTed]

I understand that. Entities are somewhat unsubstantiated as well. Perhaps a "conspiracy playground" could be helpful for people who just can't let go of the possibilities quite yet. When something seems and feels profoundly true, especially when you are inexperienced, just the ability to express it can be invaluable, at least for me.

I like this idea

 

[Alex101]

heres one :lol:
[youtube]

If you've thought of it, someone has already made a video on it on the internet lol.