Just some thoughts: Boiling down all the teks

[Aislin_the_Dreamer]

Most of the teks I've come across seem to aim for pure white crystals and/or use non-food-grade chemicals. There are a handful of food-grade teks which I have read and tried to understand as well. My goal is to extract jungle spice since I believe that would provide a more full and robust experience. It also seems to require less time and resources even if it's a touch more work. Before I experiment with acacia this weekend, I'm just trying to get my comparisons, thoughts, and understanding on paper. I wouldn't mind any affirmations or "that's nonsense."

Acid Step
A lot of folk heat this step which makes sense. A variety of acids can be used but to me, vinegar seems like an excellent choice with a pH of about 2.4. This converts the spice to the salt form, making it polar so I can understand the addition of ethanol and/or water here. I might give that a try as well. I guess here are the questions:

1) How fast is conversion?
2a) Is it really worthwhile to have several heat steps with new vinegar/ethanol/water?
2b) are yield differences negligible or worthwhile from this?
2c) Or does the repeated heat treatment simply pull more unwanted tannins?

Defat Step
I don't view this as necessary since I'm aiming for jungle spice. I'm still researching all the the other compounds and just recently found a detailed post about it.

Base Step
I've seen methods where the acid is left on the material and others where it's taken off. I suppose if you take the acid off the material before you add base, you can then have the material to start again if something went amiss. My attempts with Q21Q21's tek (using MHRB) where the base was added to the material worked successfully so I may try the other method this time around and see what happens. Calcium Hydroxide will be the key player here with a pH of about 11 so that should convert about 99.9% of the spice.

Nonpolar Pulls
This will be the first time I'll be using limonene. Since the spice is now in the freebase form, it should be soluble in this nonpolar solvent. Xylene or naptha could be used and evaporated or freeze precipitated but going to the next step seems less time consuming albeit more work.

Vinegar/water Pull
Using a separatory funnel I just recently acquired and am very excited to use, I will pull out the spice by adding vinegar to the limonene. This should convert the freebase back into a salt. I will do a few water pulls as well to ensure I've got most of it.

All that would remain is reducing the acid/water mixture to a manageable level, quantifying the tincture, and pat myself on the back for putting my chemistry minor to good use. Many thanks.

PS. Unrelated curiosity: What happens to ancient posts that seem forgotten and lost in time?

 

[WanderingTraveler]

Hey there, im gonna attempt to answer some of your questions

It seems like everyone wants those pretty white snow-flakes.
I've had a few pulls where I've gotten crystal, but Jungle Spice (or Goo, as I like to call it) Is every bit just as potent in my opinion, there's some people out there who even prefer goo!!
I'm in the middle of an extraction right now!
400g ACRB. Attempting to yield a crystal, but I'll just be happy to get some more spice in my life, regardless the consistency.
I'll post my extraction method and result when its all said and done.

1 - the rate of conversion is all based on what tek you use!
Could be a few hours, could be half a day.
2 - In my experience, I seemed to get the best product, when keeping the mixture warm through-out the process.

Definitely do not de-fat if you're going for jungle spice, all of my research indicates, this is one of the major differences in your finished product,
(especially with ACRB)
I have made jungle spice a number of times, and every time jungle spice was yielded, there was ZERO filtering, washing, or de-fatting done.


I ALWAYS use Lye for Basifying,
Simply my agent of choice

I also have ALWAYS done the traditional naptha pulls.
Worked well every time, so I have yet to try any other solvents.

In my opinion, the Vinegar/Water pull, just seems like your adding an extra step to the process to me, but then again I'm not 100% familiar with your techniques.

Not at all necessary to me.
But hey, to each their own.

In my opinion, if you want to get easy jungle spice.
Go for one of the simple A/B Teks,
Make your mixture,
skip the cleaning/de-fat stages.
Do your pulls,
straight to freeze for 12-18 hours.
Simply pour off naptha,
Dry under a Fan for 45 mintes-1 hour.
Scrape your goo.
Voila, jungle spice.

Something that ive found very little research on, but I find very interesting,
Is Vacuum Purging your jungle spice.
It seems few have interest, and even fewer have the ability.
But I have a Vacuum Purge, Basically an old pressure cooker, with a piece of bulletproof glass over the top.
Theres an on/off valve on one side of the glass, and an open port (which is connected to a hose, connected to a vacuum pump)
These are commonly used in BHO (butane Hash Oil) extraction.
When purged, the jungle spice not only smells much stronger, but also tastes more "clean" in my opinion.


Hopefully I helped you out a bit
I'm glad I got the chance to share some experience with a fellow nexian
Thank you for our time, and please continue to research and help us all learn

If your looking for help/collaboration, I'll do the best I can!


Safe travels.

 

[Aislin_the_Dreamer]

1 - the rate of conversion is all based on what tek you use!
Could be a few hours, could be half a day.
2 - In my experience, I seemed to get the best product, when keeping the mixture warm through-out the process.

1) That's my point though, all of these teks in principle are the same! Acid -> base -> NPS
I've looked into the molecular structures of the various chemicals that can be used and the biggest differences from what I've noticed are in the acid or base.
Both lye and calcium hydroxide are strong bases and completely disassociate and they have pHs of 11 or 12. Wouldn't that make these two interchangeable regardless of tek?
Acid becomes a little more tricky because acetic acid is a weak acid but still reaches a very low pH.

2) I will definitely give that a try. I am borrowing a hot plate from a friend just to keep it consistently warm.

Definitely do not de-fat if you're going for jungle spice, all of my research indicates, this is one of the major differences in your finished product, (especially with ACRB)
I have made jungle spice a number of times, and every time jungle spice was yielded, there was ZERO filtering, washing, or de-fatting done.

Good to know! Thank you.

In my opinion, the Vinegar/Water pull, just seems like your adding an extra step to the process to me, but then again I'm not 100% familiar with your techniques.

This is an extra step. If I were using naphtha or xylene, I could freeze precipitate and then let the crystals dry out. I'm afraid of any residual solvent in my final product (despite the hundreds of successful extractions found here) so this is the purpose of this extra step. Additionally, from what I've come across, limonene does not freeze precipitate well and since it's a less volatile oil that doesn't readily evaporate, this additional step is necessary to remove the spice from it. There are of course slight variations to this step.

Something that ive found very little research on, but I find very interesting,
Is Vacuum Purging your jungle spice.
It seems few have interest, and even fewer have the ability.
But I have a Vacuum Purge, Basically an old pressure cooker, with a piece of bulletproof glass over the top.
Theres an on/off valve on one side of the glass, and an open port (which is connected to a hose, connected to a vacuum pump)
These are commonly used in BHO (butane Hash Oil) extraction.
When purged, the jungle spice not only smells much stronger, but also tastes more "clean" in my opinion.

Someday I'll have the capability of a vacuum filtration system. Someday I'll have a proper lab... (Aislin starts drifting into yet another day dream). Anyway, this will be a topic I keep looking into

Thank you kindly for your contribution. It indeed provided helpful information and helped streamline some of my thoughts. :thumb_up: