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Lazy alkaloid salting combos (CISLO)

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I went ahead and tested tartaric + harmala. Took a while but the harmalas dissolved in 4 parts PG under heat.

The color of the solution is an orange amber (not red like we get with lactic or citric).

Letting it cool now to text for xtalization at room temp.
 

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Loveall said:
I went ahead and tested tartaric + harmala. Took a while but the harmalas dissolved in 4 parts PG under heat.

The color of the solution is an orange amber (not red like we get with lactic or citric).

Letting it cool now to text for xtalization at room temp.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately harmala tartrate fell out of solution (see image).

Of all our tests, only harmala lactate has been stable.

Years ago harmala HCl was reported somewhat soluble, but in small amounts and it didn't work well for me.

Harmala acetate may be an option too, IDK. Citrate, malate, tartrate have been ruled out I think.

I think I'm gonna stick with lactate and try to optimize that. It is sour but OK in my opinion.

Nicotine lactate is a commercial product, but used in lower concentrations than what we are using here, on the other hand a lot more is vaped by the average user (hundreds of pufs a day). I think there is a track record vaping lactates without major issues noted, but each adult should make their own choice after reviewing the objective info out there.
 

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Damn I was hoping tartaric might have had a chance, lactic acid might be the way to go for now. Being it's a product the body creates and often used in vapes one would hope it wouldn't be too harsh for the lungs.

Thanks for sharing.

I'll test the powder form at the end of the week when I have time, see if it mixes well with PG/VG.
 
I have 99%+ food grade lactic acid acid coming tomorrow, will test that too.

Been vaping the lactate DMT/harmala ejuice salt. At 50W the sourness/bittermess is barely noticable. Effects are beautiful ❤️

Surprising it is reality smooth. I've come to realize that harmala salts are very bitter in general by simply tasting the e juice mixes. There is a reason why we FB sublingually, I believe Snozze mentioned this a long time ago 🙂

When vaping I try to do the direct-to-lung technique on inhale, then add some fresh air to clear the mouth/throat and hold all that to go give your lungs time to absorb all the gifts from the plants. Any vapor that condenses in the mouth is going to be bitter.
 
_Trip_ said:
Hmm sounds like the ye olde vapable pharmahusca conundrum might have been solved. Time to dial it in. The results sound very promising. Awesome work.
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Agree, it looks good. You cracked this hard case with he lactate observation, thanks again _Trip_ 🙏

Current plan for next iteration:

- 1 part DMT from MHRB (will do 1gram)
- 1 part Harmine/THH mix from rue zinc reduction
- 0.9 parts lactic acid powder (99%+ food grade) to convert DMT/Harmine/THH to their salt forms without excess acid.
- 4 parts of flavored 30/70 VG/PG commercial e-juice (0mg nicotine, trying to mask the bitter/sour harmala salt flavor)
- Harmala will dissolve slowly. Patience required.
- Adjust DMT/lactic acid amounts if needed until pH is ~ neutral and/or almost all harmalas are dissolved. For flavor sake, better to error on the side of slight alkalinity and traces of harmalas undissolved.
 
Loveall said:
Agree, it looks good. You cracked this hard case with he lactate observation, thanks again _Trip_ 🙏

Current plan for next iteration:

- 1 part DMT from MHRB (will do 1gram)
- 1 part Harmine/THH mix from rue zinc reduction
- 0.9 parts lactic acid powder (99%+ food grade) to convert DMT/Harmine/THH to their salt forms without excess acid.
- 4 parts of flavored 30/70 VG/PG commercial e-juice (0mg nicotine, trying to mask the bitter/sour harmala salt flavor)
- Harmala will dissolve slowly. Patience required.
- Adjust DMT/lactic acid amounts if needed until pH is ~ neutral and/or almost all harmalas are dissolved. For flavor sake, better to error on the side of slight alkalinity and traces of harmalas undissolved.
Click to expand...

I gave these ratios a go, seems like a stable mix so far. I would like to try it with half the harmala taken out and the vg/pg and lactic acid ratio lowered in accordance. In my experience/ opinion a ratio of 1:2 (harmala to dmt) is ideal when using a vapor genie and freebase. Worth my next experiment each hit would be slightly more potent too..
 
Yeah I think I will look into buying concentrated flavoring to add to the mix see if it improves the taste. I haven't hit it too hard yet.

You might have to write up a quick little tek Loveall.
 
Just wanted to post:

After reading over BW's amazing experimental results I decided to finally have a go at a proper DMT benzoate session with the genie. I used DMT benzoate I made a while back after reading Loveall's use of benzoic acid and d-limo.

I loaded up the vapor genie with 30mg of harmala and smoked that. 2 others also partook in the session each also vaping 30mg harmala. We then loaded the genie and tested DMT FB and DMT benzoate. We had quite an extensive session with both.

I felt the DMT benzoate was less harsh than FB (as in harder to burn). The benzoate also had a pleasant orange after taste due to the d-limonene used to crash out the benzoate. I did get paranoid we had had too much of the DMT benzoate and worried our lungs might have regretted it. However, there was no coughing or irritation even 24hours later. So I believe BW's reports are on point. The benzoate did appear to leave some gunk in the genie (obviously benzoic acid) this was easy to clean.

Overall no negative effects from the benzoate.
 
Orion said:
Just to mention the - CIELO Harmala citrate - link in the original post currently gives an error
Click to expand...

Fixed. Thanks for catching that.

Also added the DMT benzoate from CITLO link from Merkin. He did a full A/B, but I also think his result points to a very promising new drytek.
 
_Trip_ said:
Just wanted to post:

After reading over BW's amazing experimental results I decided to finally have a go at a proper DMT benzoate session with the genie. I used DMT benzoate I made a while back after reading Loveall's use of benzoic acid and d-limo.

I loaded up the vapor genie with 30mg of harmala and smoked that. 2 others also partook in the session each also vaping 30mg harmala. We then loaded the genie and tested DMT FB and DMT benzoate. We had quite an extensive session with both.

I felt the DMT benzoate was less harsh than FB (as in harder to burn). The benzoate also had a pleasant orange after taste due to the d-limonene used to crash out the benzoate. I did get paranoid we had had too much of the DMT benzoate and worried our lungs might have regretted it. However, there was no coughing or irritation even 24hours later. So I believe BW's reports are on point. The benzoate did appear to leave some gunk in the genie (obviously benzoic acid) this was easy to clean.

Overall no negative effects from the benzoate.
Click to expand...

On an emesh DMT benzoate left no residue for me.

Please be careful with DMT benzoate and flame. With proper technique (keeping flame at a distance to avoid going over 500C) things are OK. But if the flame gets the product very hot, toxic benzene can form. I would not do it myself.
 
Sounds like a new experiment, see how hot a genie gets.
I have a laser thermometer which should work.

The left over residue could have been unvaporised benzoate.

Edit the vapor genie pdf's state max 350-375f depending on draw. I don't think benzene would be an issue.
 
Loveall said:
Experience was beautiful. I think we have the amazing DMT+harmala experience in a simple vape now.
Click to expand...

I believe, sir, you owe us the breakout dance you promised.

Cheers to you gentle explorers. Trip and Loveall!
 
Thought I should put this up and add to the thread of what doesnt work. Butyl Acetate although holds benzoic acid well, it also holds DMT benzoate as well so is not a good combo. BA doesn't hold other acids well unless wet. Tested malic, tartaric, citric, lactic, fumaric.
Did not test hcl or phosphoric.

Methylene chloride (DCM) is the same as BA in terms of what acids it holds well (in excess for lazy salt combos). It won't hold malic, tartaric, citric, lactic, fumaric but holds benzoic well. Again hcl, phosphoric was not tested.
It may crash out DMT benzoate as it too holds benzoic well but i haven't tested it. Will report back. It's a volitle solvent to work with be cautious.

Hoping to find a acid suitable for DCM and harmala but no luck so far. As it pulls 3 times better than harmala it may be a good replacment for the EA in the EA harmala tek. However, I'm struggling to find a acid that'll crash it out and can be added in excess. Adding EA saturated with citric acid to the DCM could work but not ideal.
 
Not sure where to add this, but I have vaporized 5 mg of DMT benzoate on a modified e-mesh a few times now and it is the smoothest vapor I have had. My technique is not always on point but it seems like DMT benzoate adds a bit more room for error.
 
Mescaline CIXLO dropped with CASA also worked OK as well.
 

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DMT Benzoate from Isopropanol

Worked well for me I'd suspect that Mescaline citrate can be made this way replacing ethyl acetate with 99% iso. (I'll test this after testing if mescaline benzoate works) Iso should also be able to pull more alkaloids for salting. Ethyl acetate pulls ONLY Mescaline.
 

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