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Legal DMT(almost)

Migrated topic.
drainlife20

drainlife20

Rising Star
I don't really know where I should put this, because it really isn't an extraction, more of a synth theory.

I've heard that if you ingest an MAOI like syrian rue, 5-HTP, L-methionine(or SAM, on a side note, I couldn't find L-methionine supplements anywhere on the net), b12, b6, and folic acid, that you will essentially synthesize DMT in your stomach. These are all dietary supplements, except rue of course. I'm not sure if the logic behind this is just beyond me, or if it's just bullshit. I don't know much about chemistry as it is, let alone human digestive enzymes. Sorry that my first two posts have involved stomach acid, I just figured I'd share these theories because I haven't seen them discussed on any forums. If this does add up, and if any of you know of a legal to ingest non-prescription MAOI, then this would be pretty exciting. SAM seems kind of dangerous compared to L-methionine, so it would be useful to find a source for that as well.
 
Actually you won't synthesise any dmt in your stomach just by ingesting dmt precursors and co-factors...

And that's because chemical reactions require certain conditions and enzymes, and the simpler way to put it is that the stomach is not the best enviroment for setting a controlled pathway of chemical reactions such as those needed to synthesise dmt. If that was true, people would be just adding these ingredients in a bowl, then add water, swirl and BOOM! you get dmt.

Ingesting a dmt-contaning plant is far easier and certainly legal!
 
drainlife20 said:
I don't really know where I should put this, because it really isn't an extraction, more of a synth theory.

I've heard that if you ingest an MAOI like syrian rue, 5-HTP, L-methionine(or SAM, on a side note, I couldn't find L-methionine supplements anywhere on the net), b12, b6, and folic acid, that you will essentially synthesize DMT in your stomach.
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5-HTP isn't an MAOI, neither are B12, B6 or folic acid, I don't know about L-methionine or SAM though, but if they're just dietary supplements I doubt if they're MAOIs.
 
and this guy seems to think it could make bufo.
Click to expand...

Just read this post, these guys are just plainly talking bollocks! how can people go on and post these kind of stuff?? They just spread misinformation and it won't be long till an ignorant dude claims "yeah man, u can eat this and this and this, they all combine to make dmt in your stomach, I read it in a forum, it's a fact"

This guy should have at least tried his "spontaneous-dmt-synthesis-where-the-law-cannot-get-you" recipe before posting it!

Here's a better recipe for getting totally high totally legally:

The Bananadine tek:

1. Obtain 15 lb. of ripe yellow bananas. 2. Peel the bananas and eat the fruit. Save the skins. 3. With a sharp knife, scrape off the insides of the skins and save the scraped material. 4. Put all scraped material in a large pot and add water. Boil for three to four hours until it has attained a solid paste consistency. 5. Spread this paste on cookie sheets and dry it in an oven for about 20-30 minutes. This will result in a fine black powder (bananadine). Usually one will feel the effects of bananadine after smoking three or four cigarettes.
 
Ronue said:
and this guy seems to think it could make bufo.
Click to expand...

Just read this post, these guys are just plainly talking bollocks! how can people go on and post these kind of stuff?? They just spread misinformation and it won't be long till an ignorant dude claims "yeah man, u can eat this and this and this, they all combine to make dmt in your stomach, I read it in a forum, it's a fact"

This guy should have at least tried his "spontaneous-dmt-synthesis-where-the-law-cannot-get-you" recipe before posting it!

Here's a better recipe for getting totally high totally legally:

The Bananadine tek:

1. Obtain 15 lb. of ripe yellow bananas. 2. Peel the bananas and eat the fruit. Save the skins. 3. With a sharp knife, scrape off the insides of the skins and save the scraped material. 4. Put all scraped material in a large pot and add water. Boil for three to four hours until it has attained a solid paste consistency. 5. Spread this paste on cookie sheets and dry it in an oven for about 20-30 minutes. This will result in a fine black powder (bananadine). Usually one will feel the effects of bananadine after smoking three or four cigarettes.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, bananadine. You want to talk about potent stuff! The next best thing to banandine is Jenkem... Don't forget to mix the urine and feces well...also using a rubber glove is much better than a ballon...

Moving this to funny stuff.
 
Haha, funny. Well rather than acting like I know what I'm talking about, because I don't know really anything about digestive enzymes, I figured I'd ask in hopes that somebody with a vast knowledge could explain why, because there's no way I'm going to waste my time doing research on something I think is bogus, or waste my money to try it out myself either. If DMT exists in your body, that means your body somehow makes it, correct? Really you don't seem to know about enzymes either or you would have explained why it couldn't work rather than "the stomach isn't a controlled setting", because it's obviously controlled enough to do some pretty amazing things and keep us all ticking.
 
Really you don't seem to know about enzymes either or you would have explained why it couldn't work rather than "the stomach isn't a controlled setting", because it's obviously controlled enough to do some pretty amazing things and keep us all ticking.
Click to expand...

Some of the people who write in this forum have professions that allow them to know far more than you can imagine as far as biochemistry of the enzymes and molecular pathways are concerned. When usually asked to give an answer, it has to be spoken out so that laymen can understand it. Your question cannot be thoroughly answered without basically writing a small essay out of which the average person wouldn't understand more than 5% of the text!
 
You know, it's strange that you'd have that Thomas Edison quote as your signature and completely dismiss this without really knowing. Enzymes convert and donate just as everything else. According to this article, DMT is created from tryptophan with the aid of only 2 enzymes(first paragraph of the Considerations section), and it goes further to suggest that with the aid of a 3rd enzyme, DMT could be converted into psilocin(first paragraph as well). Of course it's theory, but obviously plants and animals produce DMT somehow, and how else could they do it without enzymes?
 
I do not really understand how my signature fits with this discussion or my opinions. But anyway, the dismissal of your proposition is happening simply because we can make educated guesses on why this wouldn't work which as a matter of fact overwhelm the opposit opinion such as why this thing would work.

Now, by knowing which enzymes convert tryptophan to dmt does not actually tell you how you can in practice produce dmt. As far as your stomach environment is concerned, the vast majority of enzymes are inactivated, degraded or denaturated at this low pH. More importantly, you do not really have the enzymes needed to synthecise dmt lying around in your stomach!

But even if these enzymes were active, then you would have to take enzyme kinetics into consideration. As an example, if your very first step is to decarboxylate tryptophan, you need

A. the respective decarboxylase enzyme to be enzymatically active (how enzyme activity is regulated is a massive topic that covers anything from post-translational enzyme modifications to the presence of co-factors and/or other auxilliary proteins)

B. The tryptophan to be presented to the decarboxylase enzyme. Very often an enzymes substrate cannot just bind like that, it has to be "passed" to it by another carrier enzyme. This is the reason why many biosynthetic pathways are performed by a series of enzymes that all lie within a big complex; the product of one enzyme immediately becomes the substrate of the next one.

C. Enzymes catalyse a chemical reaction, e.g. tryptophan -> tryptamine + CO2, AS WELL AS THE REVERSE REACTION, e.g tryptamine + CO2 -> tryptophan. Where the reaction is actually driven depends on the association and dissociation constants Ka and Kd of the enzyme and is dependent on the relative concentrations of tryptophan, tryptamine and CO2. Without going too deep, it is easy to see how complicated an issue in enzymology can be....

And I guess plenty of people can add a plethora of other reasons like those mentioned above....

But why bother about enzymes and their problematic nature in the first place???

Simply because almost all of the reactions that happen within living organism are energetically fairly unfavourable. Enzymes are the catalysts of these reactions, what they do (when they decide to do it, that is!) is to lower the activation energy molecules need to react. So to speak, you CANNOT mix tryptamine and a methyl donor (like SAM) in a test tube and expect anything to happen. The molecules will move around all the time, bump to each other but almost never something will happen. What the methymtransferase enzyme is doing is to roughly grab both tryptamine and SAM, then shout: GOTCHA YOU BASTARDS!!!, then bend them and allow them collide in a meaningful way, thus forming a methylation product of tryptamine...
 
Well I understand what you're getting at, that you can't just take those pills and mix them together to get DMT, but you're not taking into account the digestive enzymes that already exist in the human body, and those that are produced in certain scenarios when certain things are introduced into the digestive system, which is exactly what is beyond me, I'm not familiar in the least with that. Since we do have DMT in our body, it is possible that we create it in our digestive system, or at least partially, which is very likely. I guess I'm just taking offense because everybody seems to be blowing it off as in impossibility without being able to explain why, even to go as far as to move this article to the humor section. You've definitely explained really well why it isn't very likely, yes. This article has found an enzyme in the brain that converts tryptamine and N-methyl-tryptamine to N-methyl-and dimethyltryptamine, and 5-htp crosses the blood brain barrier.
 
drainlife20 said:
. This article has found an enzyme in the brain that converts tryptamine and N-methyl-tryptamine to N-methyl-and dimethyltryptamine, and 5-htp crosses the blood brain barrier.
Click to expand...

here's a more recent study

sort of refutes that 1972 study. the mRNA transcripts for INMT are not sufficiently expressed in the brain.
and 5HTP doesn't readily cross the BBB any easier than serotonin
 
Drainlife, there's a saying in my country which loosely translates like: no knowledge is better than half-knowledge. And the meaning of this saying is basically that you are driven in dangerous and poor conclusions if you know just a few things on an issue. And this is exactly what is happening with you.

Now, I am very willing to explain you why what you say wouldn't happen. You could have accepted the initial answer which basically should mean: "since specialists on the field think it is not possible, then they must have some pretty good damn reason for that". And you certainly did a nice thing, you demanded further explanation. But your replies demonstrate such a poor knowledge and total misunderstanding of the concepts you are refering on, that it is almost impossible for me to continue answering.

Seriously, I had to wash my eyes with peroxide after reading your last post, and yes, this thread is a total joke and well suited for Humour and Fun! You should have gotten the message when the moderators moved it, right??
 
Ok ok ok, you guys are actually sharing information rather than scoffing, this is good. I'm just a bit confused as to why somebody would state that this would work if it actually didn't work for them personally, so maybe there's something going on that nobody is realizing? Maybe whoever wrote this has a diet with considerably large amounts of tryptophan, methionine, whatever. That's why I keep emphasizing that you should explain why it wouldn't work. You said earlier Ronue, a methyltransferase enzyme could create a methylation product of tryptamine with SAM and tryptamine, what about monomethyltryptamine? If that's possible, maybe they confused an NMT high with a DMT high. There are just so many variables, and what about digestive bacteria and their interactions? Tons of things to consider.
 
If you want to get your own body synthesizing stuff or in any other way generating these altered states of mind, you would have to go through hell for it to work; -Or you would have to take in such massive amount of chemicals, that you'd better just take the stuff itself and spare yourself another liver/stomach/kidneys/etc.- or you would have to immerse yourselve in most unpleasant conditions.
In many ancient cultures there are ways to get high without taking drugs, but this is usually seen as a sort of sacrifice, made by for instance a shaman, in order to get visions, and not at all pleasant.
If you want to give it a try you could stay awake for three days. This will get you hallucinating like hell, but this is not very enjoyable allthough it turned Descartes and Sidharta Gautama into famous philosophers, so who knows what it might bring you.
 
drainlife, I know where you heard the idea.. shulgin mentions it (as a theory..purely hypothetical) in Tihkal. might be in his chapter "dmt is everywhere". by loading up on l-tryptophan, taking an maoi, and l-methionine, you may increase production of simple subbed tryptamines. again,this is just theory, and not recommended. explore at your own discretion.

he also vaguely describes a catalyzed system with two chambers containing enzyme cultures (INMT-SAH, no doubt...he mentioned it was isolated from rabbit lung), heated to 37C, which could methylate tryptamine introduced into the system.
 
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