Lengthening the DMT experience with Caapi, where do I start?

[Yeuph]

Hey guys, I've been smoking for about a year and a half now. I'm interested in lengthening the experience a bit. What are my options here? I've read "drink some caapi tea", or eat some Syrian Rue.

How should I begin? I have caapi leaves - Seems 20 grams is what people recommend using? If I made caapi tea with 20 grams of leaves and drank it 30 minutes before hitting my pipe what would the effects be? Should I ease into this? First try 5 grams? 10? Etc.

Eventually as I get more comfortable with longer DMT experiences I'm probably going to do an ayahuasca style experience where I just eat the DMT powder. Is there any significant differences between drinking caapi tea and smoking DMT later and drinking tea and then eating DMT later? Are the dosages similar? Will I be likely to purge just eating the freebase powder as opposed to drinking a traditional Ayahuasca brew?

Fill me in guys. I've been doing some reading but I suppose I'm hoping for a bit of hand-holding and reassuring guidance Hope you don't mind!

Peace and love

 

[Hyper Turtle]

Drinking caapi or rue tea is a good option. Eating rue powder must be quite disgusting. You could also extract harmala freebase from either caapi or rue. You can eat that, or you can make changa with it.

Before you experiment with harmalas, be sure to check the substance interactions. When in doubt about a substance not mentioned there, often there's people in chat who know.

The advantage of extracted alks is that dosage is not a guessing game. From very quick reading, my impression is that 20g caapi leaf shouldn't be too much - please someone experienced with caapi correct me if that's wrong.

Changa has some advantages:
- you don't have a lot of inhibition in the digestive system, so food restrictions are more relaxed
- you don't have to wait between harmalas and DMT because you smoke them together
- you need much less harmalas (10-20mg rue alks in a hit of changa, ~200mg oral)
- the harmalas don't last much longer than the DMT

If you take oral harmalas, inhibition will last for several hours. If you also take oral DMT, this means your journey will last several hours. If you smoke the DMT instead, journey will last around 30-60 minutes. You'll still be harmala drunk for hours, can smoke more DMT if you feel like it.

I haven't done full aya/pharma yet, so i can't tell you about dosage or qualitative differences. All i know is that harmala dosage has strong influence on required DMT dosage.

One approach is to test the waters with harmalas alone (or accompanied by smoked DMT) to find your dosage for full inhibition, before ever adding DMT orally. That's the process i'm in - I've had 170, 210 and 250mg of rue alks so far, will go a little higher but i'm almost there. It tends to take longer than 30mins for me to feel full oral harmala effects. Once I'm ready for pharmahuasca, I'll start low with the DMT, like 15-25mg.

Whether tea or freebase, I'd keep a bowl handy just in case

 

[Sabnock1990]

Depends if you want the Harmalas to be more full bodied (orally), or heady (smoked), and if you want a more full spectrum Harmala feel (Caapi leaf or vine tea, or Rue seed tea or seed powder encapsulated) or if you want a lighter more isolated Harmala feel (extracted and purified Harmala (Harmine, or Harmaline, or Harmine/Harmaline extract). I personally recommend the full spectrum, it makes quite the difference compared to isolated Harmalas, but isolated Harmalas can be good too. Also, no need for dietary restrictions with oral Rue/Caapi/Harmala consumption, still need to avoid certain drug to drug interactions, and gut MAO-A only remains inhibited for about 2 hours max with oral Harmala consumption, but Tyramine/foods isn't an issue. But yeah, in general, you can consume the Caapi or Rue or Harmalas orally, and then like 30 minutes to an hour later smoke the DMT. There's also Changa as Homo Trypens mentioned, but ime while Changa can no doubt be interesting and may have it's advantages, oral Harmalas make quite the difference compared to smoked Harmalas, although smoked Harmalas can still be good. If smoking the plain Caapi leaf before or with the DMT, it'll be enough to make a difference, but it's moreso basic Changa, whereas if you use a lot of Caapi like making a Caapi 10x leaf extract or using extracted Harmalas or even smoking Rue seed itself, the more Harmala content you have, the better, imo. But i recommend the Caapi tea or Rue seed powder capsules. If you use Rue seed powder capsules, i recommend roasting the whole seeds first, then grinding them to a powder and encapsulating the roasted seed powder, it seems gentler on the stomach compared to raw seed powder but raw seed powder can still be quite useful as it's mostly what i've used and i took the stuff near daily for 4 years with oral DMT, i'm pretty experienced with Rue, i like and prefer it, personally.

 

[dragonrider]

I think it is best to try both oral DMT as well as vaporised DMT. And maybe changa as well. That way you get an impression of what each of the ingredients do and how they work when taken together.

For ayahuasca, you'll need somewhere around 50 grams of caapi, and it is always best to take just a little more just to be sure, because you will need full MAO deactivation for it to work.

For vaporised DMT, i guess any amount of caapi will prolong the effects of DMT, so it's just a matter of how much longer you want it to last and how much of the interference of caapi or rue you want as well.

I cannot imagine 20 grams not having any effect on the duration or intensity. It sounds like a good dose to start with.
It is way less than what you'll need for any form of oral DMT anyhow, and i personally find the effects of 50 grams to be very mild, so i suppose that you will experience (almost) no side-effects like nausea or dizzyness, and very little interference.