Looking for a gentle first Ayahuasca experience

[arcanum]

There's so much info. here I'm a bit confused in going about making an effective but gentle ( and I stress gentle) first timer experience. I've done freebase plenty over the last 6 months, but I could not handle that level of experience over 2 hours.

My ingredients at hand are B. caapi vine and Mimosa hostilis root bark powder. Boil them up seperate? quantity in grams?

Thanks .

 

[۩]

50g of banisteriopsis caapi tea brewed 3x for about an hour each, combined and reduced.

You can take this alone the first time, or you can add 50mg of freebase DMT to the brew as its reducing and the DMT will bind to the tannic acid, stir and it will dissolve. I do not recommend drinking MHRB even though people do it...freebase works just as good without all the nasty stuff in mimosa. Then next time go for maybe 60-100g ayahuasca with 100mg DMT.

 

[arcanum]

Thanks House,
I'll follow that, but just a bit confused, when you say that one can take the B. caapi alone first time, I thought that was just a MAOI and not psychoactive in itself?
The adding of the freebase into the mix is interesting ( first time I heard of this) as its obviously a clean and accurate way too administer the DMT.
Also just wondering if one could bypass the lengthy x 3 brewing of the caapii by just adding a B. caapi extract to a smaller 25gr. 1 hr single brew?
Am I correct in assuming that by substituting the MHRB with freebase, that I'll escape nausea and vomiting?

Thanks again.

 

[۩]

It's actually very psychoactive and even psychedelic at high doses. Very pleasant and meditative and lower doses.

If you brew the caapi for an hour, you will probably want to rebrew the material later on sometime. You can get a lot out of it, that's why people usually suggest the longer boils.

Nausea and vomiting sometimes happen as a result from harmalas alone in high doses. Also, the intensity of the DMT is sometimes known to cause this by itself at higher doses as well.

So brewing aya this way isn't a guaranteed bypass, but IMHO it significantly decreases the uncomfort. Sometimes that's just part of the trip, though. Shows you the other side.

Also if this is your first time with ayahuasca it may do some changes to your digestive system. Some people report that the first few times are the gnarliest purge-wise because of this. Not everybody, though.

 

[nexalizer]

Posting to agree with House here. In my one experience with Ayahuasca, I definitely noted psychedelic effects while waiting 20 minutes to drink the chacruna tea.

At that dosage (50g, simmered 3x1h30 with vinegar (which I was later told is not necessary - actually by house himself)) I felt very centered, watched from a detached perspective the flurry of thoughts and them being worked up, thought about all sorts of interesting stuff (about will, evolution, life, my life, etc).

There was a distinct hum in the background. I can't explain the sound in words, the best I can say is that subjectively it felt natural (as opposed to artificial).

While I didn't feel like it would be so, the moment I got up I realized my sense of balance was somewhat off, much like being drunk.

Finally, I also remember exploring the random visual noise that's usually there when you close your eyes and noticing that it had gained 3D-ness; Suddenly it was possible to zoom in and out, explore certain bits of the visual field, subjectively it had a sense of depth too.




So it may not be a bad idea at all, trying the Caapi alone for your first time. Personally, I made a note to explore it further without any admixture later down the road, as the effects of Caapi alone were quite intrinsic and enjoyable, albeit subtler than "classic" psychedelics (at that dose, can't speak of higher ones)

 

[arcanum]

Thanks both,
Yes I'll give it a trial with the caapi first, then (cautiously) add the fb.spice in on subsequent trials.

 

[jamie]

The DMT admixture just potentiate the vine, not the other way around...white people got that part wrong.

You can just add freebase DMT to the brew but I think that produces a less "full" experience. I have never added it right to the tea but I have taken caapi, and rue and then ingested extracted DMT..brews containing full plant admixtures feel like they have something else going for them..I would suspect this is due to other alkaloids present in a full spectrum tea that are eliminated with complex extractions.

Caapi is alot more than just an MAOI...again this is a sort of myth that has been passed down by westerners who I guess were caught up in the whole DMT thing..the DMT is there to just potentiate the vine..the vine is not there to just make DMT orally active. Many tribes do not like to use alot of DMT and just use the bare minimum to brighten the visions of the ayahuasca-which is the vine.

The vine contains harmalas, which act on a number of receptors apart from any maoi activity. They have action at the NMDA sites which would account for some of the psychedelic effects..they have seratonergic activity and also act on the benzo receptors. The harmala alkaloids found in the vine are a specific class of beta-carbolines and share a familiar structure with ibogaine and other iboga alkaloids and seem to share alot of pharmacological actions with the iboga alkaloids as well.

I would say dont worry about the DMT at first. Get to know ayahuasca first without the admixtures..then once you are familiar with the vine then slowy add the admixtures, one at a time.

Those who know the vine become more sensitive..those who only care about the DMT usually seem to miss alot. At least that is my opinion.

 

[universecannon]

yeah i also think higher amounts of vine + lower amounts of admixture is a good way to go. My most profound experiences have been with very high doses of vine and small doses of mimosa

 

[bigmack]

perhaps with more vine and less DMT, one can hold on to they're hallucinations with a firmer grip. I dont know.

 

[obliguhl]

The DMT admixture just potentiate the vine, not the other way around...white people got that part wrong.

...and this is so nauseating.

High Caapi, low-ish DMT is the way to go. It is pretty easy for DMT to overpower the vine.
Also, 50mg freebase is too much. Try 50g caapi and 30mg DMT.

Also, do not decant the caapi brew after you have reduced it.
Drink the sediment!!!

 

[Para]

Also, do not decant the caapi brew after you have reduced it.
Drink the sediment!!!

isn't better to re-brew the sediment then drink it?
In the few times I tried aya till now, I think it was this sediment that gave me a physical
gastric discomfort that somehow didn't let me to fully embark in the 'rollercoaster'.
Eventually I needed to throw it out 3-4h after ingestion.

 

[arcanum]

Thanks everyone, this has really cleared up a lot of confusion I've had with understanding what constitutes Ayahuasca.

 

[Yerba]

Very informative thread. Thanks to all involved!

 

[obliguhl]

isn't better to re-brew the sediment then drink it?

Sure you can...but it makes no sense because said sediment seems to be in solution if you add enough water and keep it heated. So you'd be drinking it anyways. I'm talking about what flocks out after reducing the brew. NOT the initial sediment. DO decant this and perhaps rebrew.

 

[Para]

yes, I was referring to what drops out of the tea in the reducing process.
After a wash the tea is colored but 'clear' and after hours of reducing some many little brown particles form.
I read that these might be sugars from the plant caramelizing due to concentration and heat, so they are not useful at all.
In the fridge after a day or so, these particles settle down and form a mud on the bottom of the jar.

I was thinking about reducing first down to 1l, then filter it through double coffee filters to get rid of these
brownish mud. Then reduce till the desired volume.

 

[obliguhl]

There are two types od sediment: Caramelized sugars and the alkaloids. If you want to filter...go ahead, filter out all the goodies. One alternative approach would be to just reduce using very low heat so you won't burn the sugars. Good brewing goes a long way.

 

[Para]

I'm currently reducing at a very very low rate, the stainless steal pot it's not directly on the flame but with some steel plate in between, took me 12 hours to go from 10l to 4l still that brown caramelized stuff appeared.
I just hope is less then the last time.

Just read some caapi/rue extractions teks and it seems harmalas precipitate in basic solution and dissolve in acidic solution.
In reducing the caapi tea the acetic acid might evaporate and the ph should go towards 7, this along with high concentration
might explain what you said about alkaloids being in this sediment.
thanks, I gave up the filtration for now

 

[EcstaticTrance]

Thanks for this thread I was actually looking to start experimenting with aya without overdoing it at first. Im just wondering which kind of caapi is ideal to start if it makes any difference at all (I've heard black cappi is harder on the guts).

 

[obliguhl]

cautatorul, you won't regret it! Everytime i have drunken the sedment it was a strong experiment. Everytime i discarded it purposely or by accident...it was very weak! I mean you can certainly brew 100g instead of 50 and still get something...but why? I get the sediment even after initial decanting and egg-finning. It think it really is the way it is and just contains the goodies. Another option might be, to not reduce that much. But do you really want to drink half a liter of caapi tea? I certainly don't!

Happy and very productive travels to you!!

 

[un-known-ome]

In my experience, which is quite limited, I've filtered only after combining 2 or more liters of refrigerated tea and then drink whatever I'm left with after the reduction phase, sediment and all. It seems not to matter how much the tea is reduced, and I'm assuming that at temperatures just high enough to boil water, you're only losing water. Also speaking from experience, I don't recommend brewing and reducing 15 grams of mimosa hostilis. I'd extract the freebase and dissolve it into a palatable acidic beverage that you drink after the b. caapi tea, just as part of the feeling out process rather than combining the admixture.

I have just acquired white and black caapi vine (having only previously consumed yellow) so I can report back the differences between the strains this weekend? Also I'd like to make the important distinction that b. caapi is not an MAOI, but instead an RIMA, so big difference there being that one is reversible and the other is not. This is just what I've read however and I don't believe everything I read on the internet.