LSA Activity

[Toastus]

I've read conflicting reports on here about the activity of LSA (not LSH) in any of the different forms, be it extracted or not. I've heard that it just makes you extremely tired, and then I've heard that it's a powerful entheogen that's different in effect from LSA. Has anyone reached a definitive answer to this?
Thanks guys!

 

[Ginkgo]

LSA (ergine) is definitely an active psychedelic. It is not very visionary though, and the sedative effects may cause people to fall asleep on higher dosages. What is so special about LSA is that it seems to be much more active on other senses than the sight, so you may have fantastic experiences with feeling at people or animals or smell and taste. Personally I enjoy LSH much, much better, but a cold-water extraction of LSA is okay.

 

[endlessness]

but evening, how do you know LSA is an active psychedelic, if I may ask? I have read analysis showing its a main compound in the seeds, but there are always other alkaloids together (even lsh).. so unless one has pure LSA to test, how to know?

Like toastus, I have read the controversy over LSA's activity. I know that HBWR seeds were definitely active but I never had pure LSA....

how do you make the lsh, btw?

 

[Mindlusion]

LSA (ergine) is definitely an active psychedelic. It is not very visionary though, and the sedative effects may cause people to fall asleep on higher dosages. What is so special about LSA is that it seems to be much more active on other senses than the sight, so you may have fantastic experiences with feeling at people or animals or smell and taste. Personally I enjoy LSH much, much better, but a cold-water extraction of LSA is okay.

Yes, I have had some very interseting experiences with LSA. Very strange effects, intriguing but not visionary. I have had some very alien experiences when communicating with people. Something to look into. hmm.

 

[cave paintings]

I've never done a successful LSA extraction, nor have I tried anyone else's extracts, so I couldn't tell you what pure lsa is like. But I have had powerful psychedelic experiences on morning glory seeds. The most powerful experiences consisted of funneling 14 grams of mg powder into my mouth and drinking it down with oj *shudders*
The sedation is definitely present in the beginning. It's more lethargy and an extreme body weight. Once you make it through that though, it reminds me of less visually consistent LSD. My past experiences have been extremely euphoric and psychedelic once I made it past the hell of my stomach.
Anyway, I wouldn't recommend eating the seeds raw as I'm sure you've read. Like I said earlier, I haven't tried pure lsa, so I couldn't attest to its specific psychoactive effects as an extract.

 

[Toastus]

The reason I ask is because I read from Aegle in the Recipes for Organic LSD thread that LSA is more visionary than LSH, but LSH is more like LSD. It was posted that LSA's visions have a sense of childlike wonder, and that its visions were more fluid than LSH.

 

[Aegle]

The reason I ask is because I read from Aegle in the Recipes for Organic LSD thread that LSA is more visionary than LSH, but LSH is more like LSD. It was posted that LSA's visions have a sense of childlike wonder, and that its visions were more fluid than LSH.

Toastus

Indeed LSA is highly visionary, where as LSH is far more on the visual side... LSA does have a very dream like element, although I have also experienced an electric energising energy and vitality which is very much childlike...


Much Peace and Sunshine

 

[Phlux-]

Iv had extremely powerfull psychadelic experiences on mg seeds - many times - lovely visionary state
iv had a shitty stale hbwr experience too
any my rivea has thousands of seeds - ready to pick in a week or so.- cant wait.

 

[endlessness]

Again, not to nitpick or anything but.. Everybody I know of who talks about the effects of LSA is talking about ingesting seeds or a generally crude seed extraction (myself included, I only took HBWR a couple of times, which was strange but definitely psychoactive). But the seeds, whether its HBWR or morning glories or rivea, contain plenty of other alkaloids (including LSH). So how can you really say that LSA is psychoactive unless you tried it pure?

It might very well be psychoactive, but I do remember reading the controversy, that some claimed LSA was not psychoactive but rather the other alkaloids (and/or the synergy between LSA and the other alkaloids) that was responsible for the psychedelic experience...

For example, TIHKAL says:

LA-111, ergine, d-lysergamide. This is an active compound and has been established as a major component in morning glory seeds. It was assayed for human activity, by Albert Hofmann in self-trials back in 1947, well before this was known to be a natural compound. An i.m. administration of a 500 microgram dose led to a tired, dreamy state with an inability to maintain clear thoughts. After a short period of sleep, the effects were gone and normal baseline was recovered within five hours. Other observers have confirmed this clouding of consciousness leading to sleep. The epimer, inverted at C-8, is isoergine or d-isolysergamide, and is also a component of morning glory seeds. Hofmann tried a 2 milligram dose of this amide, and as with ergine, he experienced nothing but tiredness, apathy, and a feeling of emptiness. Both compounds are probably correctly dismissed as not being a contributor to the action of these seeds.

what do you guys think?

 

[Ginkgo]

You know, this is a very interesting discussion! I can't believe this haven't crossed my mind earlier, as Hofmann states pretty much straight-forward that LSA isn't visual. Thanks a lot for pointing it out endlessness. However, the compound ergometrine (ergonovine) - which is found in about 8% of the total alkaloids in A. nervosa (and likely also the other species) - is known to have LSD like action at 2 milligrams (see TiHKAL).

So perhaps ergometrine is the real psychedelic compound in these seeds? And what if the proposed LSH conversion doesn't form LSH, but really only extracts more of the ergometrine and less of the ergine (LSA)? It is so strange that this discussion hasn't popped up earlier...

 

[Toastus]

I tend to bring out the hard questions nobody's asked before
The only options I see that it could be are:

1. LSA isn't visual (which the expert said it wasn't) but LSH is, which means the LSH conversion works.
2. LSA is visual but more visionary like Aegle said, but LSH is more visual and less visionary, which means the LSH conversion still works.
3. Ergometrine is the real visionary compound, which means that the LSH conversion really just deals with ergometrine.

Which means if #1 or 2 are true, then the compound starts out as LSH in the seeds, and degrades into LSA, which depending on if 1 or 2 are true will determine how active it is after it's degraded. But if 3 is true, what happens to the ergometrine?

Nobody has a straight story with this! lol
Did Hofmann test for activity at doses of LSA higher than what he did for that test? It might have been active at doses higher than that.

 

[Phlux-]

yeah - thats why i was very carefull not to mention lsa in my post - here is my experience

cwe - up to 600 seeds - mild experience - not much really - and no nausea either
up to 300 seeds crushed and consumed - major but handleable nausea - well worth it deep visionary
extracts - only from back in the day and no luck back then - cant wait for my rivea to be ripe.

 

[Toastus]

I think the best answer to the whole question is to examine how the natives prepared the seeds. This doesn't apply to HBWR, unfortunately, but it does apply to MG and Rivea. I've heard that all they did was do a water extraction (I'm not sure of the validity of this, so if I'm wrong, please correct me), but do we know if they used fresh seeds or if they collected them for future use?

 

[Aegle]

Toastus

Most of my journeys have been with MG seeds immeresed in a cold water extraction. My visions were very powerful and the childlike wonder was incredibly poinant. If you are searching for the best method of administration I would suggest a cold water extration. I wish you all the happiness in your journeys...


Much Peace and Compassion

 

[Toastus]

So, obviously Aegle disagrees with Hofmann based on personal experience. Is it possible that Hofmann made a mistake by not using dosages high enough? He used 500 mcgs of LSA, and 2 milligrams of iso-LSA. What is the active dose usually obtained through seeds of Morning Glories or other plants? If it's higher than Hofmann's dose, he could be wrong. If not, then there's nothing to this post.

 

[endlessness]

No I dont think Aegle is disagreeing with Hofmann.. Hofmann was using pure LSA, Aegle is talking about the activity of Morning Glory seeds. Two very different things

 

[Toastus]

No I dont think Aegle is disagreeing with Hofmann.. Hofmann was using pure LSA, Aegle is talking about the activity of Morning Glory seeds. Two very different things

Possibly. Either way, she is saying that Morning Glory seeds by themselves, when not fresh, are highly visionary and create the "childlike wonder," while after the LSH conversion (or fresh) they are highly visual, instead of visionary, and with no wonderyness. Maybe that's something we already knew though, lol.