"thumb" printers report a long (a week or so) period of readjusting to the world. Or so I read.
Grof said:
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LSD vs DMT
- Thread starter dwelz
- Start date
people have experienced loss of self and surroundings at 400 or 500 ug; others experience the same at 1000+ ug.
This can be interpreted as if it means only in a therapeutic session, shao ^, that more LSD wont help the process. Doesnt have bearing on what is being discussed.
Yeah benz, people are people, I know only of myself, I dont lose my sense of self with LSD with 600 mics, I know this from repeated experiences.
Yeah benz, people are people, I know only of myself, I dont lose my sense of self with LSD with 600 mics, I know this from repeated experiences.
Shaolin said:
it's just ritualistic bullshit, more than anything else. indoctrination into the 'family' cult.
you can get the same effects from a ten-strip of "properly laid" acid, in a 12 or so hour timeline. what you choose to experience is largely up to your imagination, set, and setting.
this is why I love mushrooms and dmt, and became bored with lsd.
psychedelic posturing... wow, what a trip.
They are qualitative differences with both chemicals. Different levels are different levels, you should become familiar with as many as possible. In the end they are often the same horizon viewed through a different pair of goggles.
The whole "taking more and more" mentality is the opposite of my way.
When I was younger, in my teens and early twenties, taking more and more helped me attain greater heights.
After a break of several years, learning to leave the body in my own way without chemicals, and built up experiences I require less and less to attain the same levels.
ie. I once needed 10 hits of acid to get to point A, after some practice and meditation I can get there with 1-2.
The same is holding true of dmt, the more practice I get the less I require and the easier it is to navigate and explore the higher worlds that are uncovered.
They are qualitative differences with both chemicals. Different levels are different levels, you should become familiar with as many as possible. In the end they are often the same horizon viewed through a different pair of goggles.
The whole "taking more and more" mentality is the opposite of my way.
When I was younger, in my teens and early twenties, taking more and more helped me attain greater heights.
After a break of several years, learning to leave the body in my own way without chemicals, and built up experiences I require less and less to attain the same levels.
ie. I once needed 10 hits of acid to get to point A, after some practice and meditation I can get there with 1-2.
The same is holding true of dmt, the more practice I get the less I require and the easier it is to navigate and explore the higher worlds that are uncovered.
Yeah thats true too... And then there is difference in individual metabolism, some just need more, and also on the context and what it is that you generally want from an experience. I think in general, the normal reasonable doses are more manageable and insightful, and over time less becomes more, but it's also common that once in a while a psychedelic explorer wants do go stronger on the dosage.
I think with time, the regularity of these deeper dives become less and less, and as you said, its more about the meditation/preparation and the integration, and smaller doses can be very useful. But even then, I think there is still the ocasional place for a larger dose depending on the substance and one's life and context.
I think with time, the regularity of these deeper dives become less and less, and as you said, its more about the meditation/preparation and the integration, and smaller doses can be very useful. But even then, I think there is still the ocasional place for a larger dose depending on the substance and one's life and context.
not posturing, just speaking on experience. perhaps that's the confusion, speaking of experiences rather than an 'effects' position. and endlessness brings up an interesting point, that doses were administered in a clinical setting....but this would be the argument of any psychedelic in a clinical setting, such as the one Strassman provided with his DMT studies. What I am trying to convey is, because DMT has its relatively simple structure, that makes it a more selective ligand for the respective 5HT subtypes, whereas LSD binds those sites, and others, with inhibitory functions. So, in effect, with higher doses, you have a levelling off of certain effects, this is regardless of set and setting. The same holds true for Ibogaine..amazingly complex structure, prolonged effects with wide binding profile.
So let me tell you something else... If DMT has a "saturation level", I dont want to try to find it :lol:
agreed.
I've heard several times, of people "passing out", possibly from sensory overload(?)
bad enough that's happened to me with alcohol. I can't imagine it happening from psychedelics.
the interesting thing is, we normally don't say "well, I guess ___ can't handle his/her psychedelics".
I've heard several times, of people "passing out", possibly from sensory overload(?)
bad enough that's happened to me with alcohol. I can't imagine it happening from psychedelics.
the interesting thing is, we normally don't say "well, I guess ___ can't handle his/her psychedelics".
It isn't passing out in the context you are talking about. You are using the example of alcohol which is a totally different place.
To have a blackout on lsd or dmt is a place where you have left your body and you simply do not recall what it is doing. We used to call it "acid death" where you are in a different place while your body is independent. I watched myself interacting with people once while I was 50ft above.... I saw myself walk up a hill while I sat in the top of a tree.
The next level past this you simply do not think, you have become part of the whole and there is nothing to experience. At some point vision returns and you ride out the last hour of the journey getting the feeling back in your legs. I don't believe there is terminology for this state (maybe dead?)
These experiences are where I felt I learned that the mind is not "you" and just a tool...
Back to the previous discussion, i have never found a "saturation point" with lsd. Reading something in a book is fascinating, I can write a book today that says "the sky is purple" this doesn't make it any less real for me, nor any more real for everyone else.
To have a blackout on lsd or dmt is a place where you have left your body and you simply do not recall what it is doing. We used to call it "acid death" where you are in a different place while your body is independent. I watched myself interacting with people once while I was 50ft above.... I saw myself walk up a hill while I sat in the top of a tree.
The next level past this you simply do not think, you have become part of the whole and there is nothing to experience. At some point vision returns and you ride out the last hour of the journey getting the feeling back in your legs. I don't believe there is terminology for this state (maybe dead?)
These experiences are where I felt I learned that the mind is not "you" and just a tool...
Back to the previous discussion, i have never found a "saturation point" with lsd. Reading something in a book is fascinating, I can write a book today that says "the sky is purple" this doesn't make it any less real for me, nor any more real for everyone else.
but if you can define parameters which limit the possibility of the sky being purple, and not necessarily something else....
so you've taken a lot of acid, and the more you take, the higher you get?
umm, ok.
that's never happened to me, I "must've not taken enough". :?
so you've taken a lot of acid, and the more you take, the higher you get?
umm, ok.
that's never happened to me, I "must've not taken enough". :?
benzyme said:
I'm not sure I understand why you are so defensive and condescending about this.
I did not call your experiences into question, I just told you mine. I never said I did 4000hits and was so much higher than 10, I never said anything to that effect. All I said was that I never found a saturation point.
The "book" mention was aimed at a previous poster's mention of "Acid Dreams" or one of those books saying anything over 600mics was the saturation point... I do not think you can put a particular number on such a thing as individuals vary widely chemically.
Over the 1mg range and into 2mg the effects are different for me as well as longer lasting. Also the times my friend and I would split vials in a night in sensory deprivation were some of the most phenomenal trips I have ever had, not like a normal dose of LSD at all. We definitely moved further and further into a fluid realm of consciousness where the "normal" LSD effects were long gone, things like shared visions were common for example. Out of body experiences become possible for me at the half a millegram range especially in conjunction with dance.
LSD may not be DMT, but it is equally as divine in it's own right, especially when you combine the two. I also think that putting a number on these things doesn't make sense, we all have individual neurochemistry.
LSD may not be DMT, but it is equally as divine in it's own right, especially when you combine the two. I also think that putting a number on these things doesn't make sense, we all have individual neurochemistry.
ChemisTryptaMan
Rising Star
This is really the only thing that should be said when discussing the effects of any drug. Every individual body has its own rates of metabolism for every metabolite we can digest. There is even variation in the receptors from person to person. I personally have not found a saturation point with LSD, but this does not mean a saturation point cant be reached by me or my next door neighbor. We are all unique.Ringworm said:
Ringworm said:
i apologize if i seem that way, it's still an experience differential. 1000+ seems no different than 700 to me. the experiences were equally odd.
no worries bro, I hate those darn smiley things, they're hard to read.
In the end all of this talk is just that.
When you get 3-4 grams of crystal give me a call, and we'll hash this out oldschool-like.
In the end all of this talk is just that.
When you get 3-4 grams of crystal give me a call, and we'll hash this out oldschool-like.
you said something about posturing....?
"Poturing definition 5. A frame of mind affecting one's thoughts or behavior; an overall attitude."
yes. I stand behind that. I said "psychedelic posturing" because it's like an oxymoron to me, To be open minded and accepting and yet to place definitive concrete facts in place of something that is pliable.
It isn't an offensive comment in the least, I was just amazed to see it here.
doesn't matter, this thread is done for me.
yes. I stand behind that. I said "psychedelic posturing" because it's like an oxymoron to me, To be open minded and accepting and yet to place definitive concrete facts in place of something that is pliable.
It isn't an offensive comment in the least, I was just amazed to see it here.
doesn't matter, this thread is done for me.
I have not taken enough LSD to say, it was just never my trip for whatever reason I preferred mushrooms..but from some older heads who had been using liquid and crystal since the 70's told me, all this saturation point stuff is sort of silly. One of these guys was the biggest acid head I have ever met and he would easily eat like 18 blotters without thinking twice about it. The guy did it weekly and had been doin it this way for like 30+ years..the stories him and his gf had were like legendary. Walls opening up with luminescent beings of light pouring though to communicate telepathically with them..breakthing through the same portals in the walls into completely other dimensions..never did dose LSD with them but sort of wish I did just so I could know..this guy also picked giant bags of psilo cyans and would give me tons of them cus he did not even eat them anymore they just doses vials and vials and acid. I know at least his gf was well aquainted with DMT and salvia as well and still seemed to hold high dose LSD in very high reguards.
benzyme said:
I have never passed out with DMT, nor have I ever seen anyone else pass out..However I understand what people mean. With DMT there can be a point where you just come back like "WTF just happened?" I have been there with both oral and vaped DMT..I did not black out of anything though becasue I always have a vague memory that something deep was happening but I cant for the life of me remember what..you just know you were somewhere else and sit there feeling confused and blown away but you dont really know why.
I have had this happen while sitting completely up straight many times cross legged..I dont like fall over and pass out..I just leave my body..I remember the trip leading up to the exit and the trip after the reentrance..but the peak OBE sort of breakthrough is just a blank..leading up to that stage I always have a feeling of dissolving..not just physically but my whole being just dissolving..it is not always like that either. Sometimes I can break through into that place and remember it.
I have also had that sort of breakthrough and then amnesia once with a high dose of psilocybe cyanescens. Never did that again though ha.
