Methoxetamine?!

[ibeing897]

Yeah, I was afraid of something like this

Unfortunately, the weekend ended really quite badly... someone who was doing MXE for the first time took too much, he was helping himself to lines without anyone knowing... pushed it way too far... ended up in a completely distant state, it was really terrifying, he was lucky he was indoors with friends because he was acting so bizarrely he would've got sectioned.... and I'll be honest, the thought of sectioning him crossed my mind, it was a terrible experience... he basically became super unresponsive, but still moving around, eyes wide open, he couldn't respond to questions, just starring at people, then when he would speak it would be words repeated, at one point he was spinning his head like the exorcist.... this went on for hours, we thought he might not come out of it....and he had to be coaxed back to reality slowly... it was bizarre, freaky, the scariest drug experience I've ever had... someone losing their mind right in front of eyes..... it was especially annoying because we couldn't have been clearer about the dangers of the drug and we were very stringest who we gave it to and we didn't give it to him.. he was taking it from one of friends supplies, who had left it on the table.. it turns out this guy has had issues with drug binges & mental issues before and we didn't know anything about this until afterwards.... I think he must've had about 150mg over the 3 days, but this was without any tolerance/sleep... he told us he sneaked about 6 or 7 lines when he came out of it... really foolish, but this is drug fiends for you. I gave him a serious guilt trip the next day, I'm sure he's learned a lesson.

It's too easy to come back to and hit again, without real need to. And there is apparently a very fine line between no increased effects and borderline psychosis. I read a report on shroomery the other day where someone 'holed' out and it sounded borderline tempting/scary. I've read here the 60mg doses and thought it'd be pretty safe. Yeah, I admit the frequent use was irresponsible, just pushing it a little to see how much it would give. Now I'll lay off for a week or two, and with the above mentioned, probably be glad once it's gone. I can see how my manic state the other day could have been pushed and gone straight weirdland.

Unfortunately I am comfortable enough with these things. I took a lot of DXM pills when I was 15, and I experienced states of ego loss, smoked pcp and went straight to the ground on an overdose, was out and stupid for hours. I am a heavy guy I guess, I dunno, the doses I took before the fourth day were not seeming very strong. But the idea here is that RCs are a dark zone, gotta be careful pushing it up. All these RCs seem to have rabbit holes that get very dark very quick.

Also, reading about the teen death related to 2c-e over the spring break, really reminded me, you dont know what youre fucking with, take it slow. Think I might stick to the classics after this. Was really interesting though, the dance and all, but don't think a lot truly gained, just seems kinda hedonistic.

I can see/agree that dissociatives come off as way more toxic, and with frequent use, seem to eat a persons brain.

All drugs have a too high dose - obviously. The problem with new drugs is that we don't know what they are yet, that's why you've got to go slow.

Also I don't think they are necessarily more toxic, it's the nature of the usage that is the problem... you're inclined to do it more often and that takes its toll... but if you did MDMA 4 days in a row, that would feel more toxic... you can't even do DMT/LSD/Mushrooms that often because you get tolerant so quickly (nod to why tolerance develops Fractal). People do crystal meth/heroin daily even though it's eating them up, but that's because it's super addictive.

 

[Lavos]

All drugs have a too high dose - obviously. The problem with new drugs is that we don't know what they are yet, that's why you've got to go slow.

Well yeah, but a too high dose of heroin and a too high dose of mescaline are completely different things. At least one is much less likely to happen. A too high dose of 2c-e and a too high dose of cappi or shrooms don't seem the same to me.

If you're human, you probably like to live dangerously every once in a while, choose wisely.

 

[ibeing897]

All drugs have a too high dose - obviously. The problem with new drugs is that we don't know what they are yet, that's why you've got to go slow.

Well yeah, but a too high dose of heroin and a too high dose of mescaline are completely different things. At least one is much less likely to happen. A too high dose of 2c-e and a too high dose of cappi or shrooms don't seem the same to me.

If you're human, you probably like to live dangerously every once in a while, choose wisely.

Really you think?.. it's funny you should mention mescaline there... I've overdosed on mescaline, that was my single worst drug experience ever, probably had some serotonin syndrome, also got trapped in [what felt like] a 6 month loop in my mind getting stabbed with every emotion all at once, stuck in a void for months and months of mental time, that only really lasted 5 hours. Think Inception. Trip to my friends house running felt like a trip across the Himalayas. That was worse than this guys MXE hole. I'm shuddering thinking about it. Too high dose of 2c-e will kill you. Shrooms well, you can have a nightmare with a regular dose on that one, you can go batshit crazy on a super high dose.. good point though, it is very hard to go that high on shrooms, you'd have to eat a lot of shrooms, but some of the small potent ones could cause issues... and lets not forget about people picking poisonous ones.

 

[Lavos]

Well shit man. You got me. I don't know enough about high doses of psychedelics. I'm still barely in the pond. I'm sure we can agree that caution above the norm is advised when working with 'new' substances. In regard to any mind altering experience, one should be advised to proceed with caution.

edit: how much mescleen did you over dose on?

 

[ibeing897]

Well shit man. You got me. I don't know enough about high doses of psychedelics. I'm still barely in the pond. I'm sure we can agree that caution above the norm is advised when working with 'new' substances. In regard to any mind altering experience, one should be advised to proceed with caution.

edit: how much mescleen did you over dose on?

It's all good man, it's not a competition. With new shit you just don't know. I had about 900mg of mescaline HCL over the course of 12 hours. It really irritates me when I read so many people saying mescaline is so friendly and safe... it can get you into some serious trouble if you take too much of it. It just goes to show that just because it's got history, and it's natural, doesn't mean too much won't do you in... it took me a long time to get over that, but it also taught me a lesson about overdosing on stimulants.

 

[Lavos]

It's all good man, it's not a competition. With new shit you just don't know. I had about 900mg of mescaline HCL over the course of 12 hours. It really irritates me when I read so many people saying mescaline is so friendly and safe... it can get you into some serious trouble if you take too much of it. It just goes to show that just because it's got history, and it's natural, doesn't mean too much won't do you in... it took me a long time to get over that, but it also taught me a lesson about overdosing on stimulants.

I can understand that. I read a lot of posts before I tried it (mesc), that sounded like 'oh it's the safest warmest of the psychedelics etc, etc, It's good to hear the other side of that coin too.

 

[ibeing897]

Also this negative report, although it was terrifying to watch because it went on for so long + a completely new "too much" experience... he was completely fine afterwards and again, what interested me was that his experience sounded a lot like a high-dose iboga trip, which I've never done... but he was describing scenes of his recent life appearing in picture frames and watching them as an observer... MXE has structural similarities to ibogaine and I think it triggers similar areas of the brain. Including the anti addictive stuff, the deep introspection, time manipulation and this galvanising effect on body & mind which so many people write about. This is just another nod to the ibogaine similarities.

EDIT: also I recently tried NBOME-Mescaline, one of Dave Nichol's RC's and I found that much better than the natural stuff. Basically exactly the same without the nausea and a much shorter duration. Nichol's deliberately manipulated the molecule to remove it's negative effects... some naturalists would argue that's not right, but I just straight up disagree- I've experienced the darkness of mescaline and there was nothing natural about it. It doesn't add up with my limited understanding of how molecules work... and why I mention this is that MXE could be part of the ibogaine experience...

 

[SHroomtroll]

I have a problem with this stuff, ive only tried it 3times so far and only once going over 50mg...

So far ive been having some great experiences but my problem is that i seem to fall asleep before peaking on it...

All three times i have been laying in my couch listening to ambient beats just chilling and after about 3+hours after ingestion i just pass out...:roll:

My guess is that it´s from the weed ive been smoking during my trips, my thc tolerance is preety low right now so it´s possible that it´s putting me right out.


I really like to smoke mj during all my trips except aya/changa and the lack of any stimulation with this drug is probably the problem...

 

[Infinite I]

So Ive had 3-4 months expereince with mxe. Ive went through 2.5 grams, gave some away and at first I did feel the compulsion to do it when I got the chance and tolerance developed but if I leave it a week theres no noticable tolerance. Word of warning I was a little foolish yesterday, my friend and I received a gram each from our regular supplier and we assumed it would be the same potency as what we were used to. It has been two weeks since the last time I tried it so to start with my friend ate 30 mg and I ate 40, im slightly bigger than him and ive took it a lot more than my friend, it was his second time trying it. So we have a great time then it dies down and we think need to get back up there then maybe well head out after the peak so we both redose the same amount, from the new batch, which I tested 5mg the day before and everything seemed fine. Ego dessoulution quickly took hold, too much too fast, id forgot how strong this stuff could be actually, Ive been very close with ego death with this but this time it was quick and hard I was disintegrating into nothing quickly, I was convinced my friend must have spiked me with dmt as all I could do was surrender, then a strange thing happened I lost my body and then I was told by who I dont know that now I will go back to my other life as this other being in this dense almost plastic bubble wrap type reality, funny thing is ive been there before observing that place after cappi and mushrooms then it pops up, though mxe sometimes does feel like you are in bubble wrap land lol forgot to say I was also smoking good quality hash throughout

I ended up coming back thinking id just smoked spice and started crying at the love I had for everyone and my joy at being alive and grateful to be back, hugged my friend and calmed down a bit, so ive found thanks to this thread that eating it is much better and stronger ime than snorting it, thanks jorkest, and another side effect as soulfood im sure mentioned is I am far more tidier and have more get up and go to do things like cleaning orgonising, boring things at my job I just seem to have this can do attitude more than when before I took this stuff, seriously!

Also how do you guys store it? This new batch we received seemed far more powerful, something people should maybe look out for as last night was intense, simple rules that you should follow with rc's that I should know and for whatever reason I didnt, great expereince though but a bit of a shock! Feel absolutely amazing today, like im on an iboga or cappi afterglow, I mean you cant argue with this afterglow next session ill take not so much and get some changa on the go, exciting stuff!

 

[jamie]

nowhere in my post did I mention being against synthetic psychedelics. Ive taken them enough times and gotten lots out of them. Comparing heavy ketamine use to heavy mushroom or DMT use and syaing it's the same thing seems to be overgeneralizing. i pesonally know people who had bladder pronblems and ulcers for up to a year after they stopped using ketamine, all heavy users. I have never ever heard of that happening to anyone due to mushrooms or LSD. The psychological aspects from psychedelelics that can manifest are not the same as serious physical symptoms from heavy ketamine use. I never said NMDA antagonists were bad, but I dont think they lend themselves to the same frequency of use as other psychedelics like DMT and psilocin.

I dont feel that mescaline is quite as user friendly either. Not that it is bad, just personally I couldnt take it weekly.

You said yourself that ketamine and mxe only work for so long. I never said that was my experience. I mentioned that becasue YOU mentioned it. I still dont know what you mean by that if you are going to tell me that DMT does the same thing. DMT does not stop working after a number of times taking it. You could take DMT once a week for 5 years and Im sure it would keep on working. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

You seem to have missed the whole point of what I was saying thinking I am somehow now against synthetics.

 

[ibeing897]

nowhere in my post did I mention being against synthetic psychedelics. Ive taken them enough times and gotten lots out of them. Comparing heavy ketamine use to heavy mushroom or DMT use and syaing it's the same thing seems to be overgeneralizing. i pesonally know people who had bladder pronblems and ulcers for up to a year after they stopped using ketamine, all heavy users. I have never ever heard of that happening to anyone due to mushrooms or LSD. The psychological aspects from psychedelelics that can manifest are not the same as serious physical symptoms from heavy ketamine use. I never said NMDA antagonists were bad, but I dont think they lend themselves to the same frequency of use as other psychedelics like DMT and psilocin.

I dont feel that mescaline is quite as user friendly either. Not that it is bad, just personally I couldnt take it weekly.

You said yourself that ketamine and mxe only work for so long. I never said that was my experience. I mentioned that becasue YOU mentioned it. I still dont know what you mean by that if you are going to tell me that DMT does the same thing. DMT does not stop working after a number of times taking it. You could take DMT once a week for 5 years and Im sure it would keep on working. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

You seem to have missed the whole point of what I was saying thinking I am somehow now against synthetics.

I'm not saying they're the same thing, I'm saying you're doing the same kind of delving into the unknown be it mind/brain/body... I know ketamine is bad for your body, I've experienced that myself...but it is actually pretty good for your mind if you don't use it all the time.. my issue is really that MXE is not ketamine, you always seem to overlap your experience with one thing into another completely different thing.. we're talking about a completely new thing, it doesn't have the same kind of physical negative effects, I think the designer made it with the norketamine metabolites in mind... edit: also you said it not working for so long was "kinda iffy", that was my issue with that.

 

[narmz]

my issue is really that MXE is not ketamine, you always seem to overlap your experience with one thing into another completely different thing.. we're talking about a completely new thing, it doesn't have the same kind of physical negative effects, I think the designer made it with the norketamine metabolites in mind... edit: also you said it not working for so long was "kinda iffy", that was my issue with that.

It has plenty of negative physical effects... house posted earlier about negative effects he's experienced (similar to those of ketamine), and so did I.

To suggest that because a chemist 'designed' a drug a certain way, that it is somehow safer is a horrible thing to do without any evidence to support that claim. There have been no studies at all done with MXE... none. There is no reason to promote its safety in regards to long term or even short term health when you know absolutely nothing of any credibility about it.

Sure, the chemist did an interview promoting the drug where he said certain things in regards to his intentions, this holds no weight in my book. Release some scientific papers, get us some information about the qualifications of the chemist... there are none - we don't even know who the guy is.

For all you know, given the available information, MXE could just as well be more hazardous for your health than Ketamine is. It makes perfect sense, given the available information, to draw conclusions about MXE from ketamine in this regard. From what I understood in the article, the lower dosage compared to ketamine was meant to decrease the negative physical effects (take this with a grain of salt) - but as it appears to me, folks are using it at dosages on par with or even at higher dosages than ketamine is typically used - so this point is moot in many instances.

 

[ibeing897]

^ nobody said it was safer. All you've done here is repeat what I said - the lower dosage may decrease the negative physical effects if that is even the problem... nobody said these things were hard and fast facts. You haven't said anything about negative physical effects, they're the feeling of negative effects, that's not what is implied, we're talking about harmful effects. It was my point that nobody knows, don't repeat my point back to me as if you're adding new information to the thread. Nothing new here.. and by the way folks are not using dosages on par with ketamine doses, that's absolute nonsense, the MXE doses are much much lower.. where did you even get that idea from? also I didn't get my facts from an article. Most of my understanding comes from experience with the drug and reports I've read about it, I haven't read a single report of harm being linked to MXE. I know the examples you're going to cite, but that'd just be a misunderstanding of what is being written.

It does not make sense to draw conclusions from ketamine because problems from ketamine aren't even fully understood, highly speculative and the speculation is based on toxic metabolites, dosage and usage patterns very much effect this. Toxicity is something to be concerned about, but my point is that this is true for all drugs, moderation is the key.

" a horrible thing to do " - how dare you. You're an idiot, you can't even discriminate information. You have nothing to say. You don't understand what you're reading, safer, no I didn't say that, I was suggesting that it is intended to be safer.. tell you what, you better not write a single comment wrong or out of line in any way again because I'm going to be all over it - you're unbelievable.

 

[jamie]

you are right ibeing, I am taking similar risks with my own use. I take ayahuasca on a very regular basis, more than once a week so I am not saying that we should only take psychedelics infrequently. I just feel comfortable with ayahuasca becasue of the vast ammount of data we do have on it's use in the long term based on all the studies that have been done, compared to RC's such as mxe. I have respect and even admire what people are willing to put themselves through trying all sorts of brand new rc's, but at the same time I just feel that there is a distinction to be made here becasue of the short ammount of time these things have been involved in human affairs doesnt lend itself to conclusions on how long term frequent use might effect us.

I am not against ketamine or NMDA antagonists in general. I think ketamine has proved itslef to be an invaluable tool when used a certain way. I understand it's neuroprotectant qualities and was not implying that use of these things is inheranlty damaging. Still though I dont think we can say what the outcome of frequent use of something like mxe is like in the long run..not for many years can we come to such a conclusion.

Isnt this why 2cb isnt really referred to as a rc anymore? Since it has been studied for a long enough time for us to say with some level of confidence that 2cb seems to not have any damaging aspects to it. The same with MDMA..we know enough about MDMA to say what the pros and cons long term are..doesnt mean we know EVERYTHING yet by a long shot..but we do know something.

 

[ibeing897]

^ yeah I agree with all that... sorry Narmz post has really irritated me so my blood is still boiling... I think the thing I'm trying to get across is that it is risky business but I'm finding out what is wrong with it by taking it.. this thread is testing/experience, bare in mind this was an illicit drug designed by an underground chemist, it's never going to receive scheduled testing. as I said earlier in the thread, I also tried the methylated cathniones and I hated them, but they didn't do me much permanent harm... most of these things don't do that, and if a chemist designs something they do it with as much understanding as they can, that it will safe for human consumption to a degree, there are usually unexpected consequences with all chemicals but it is a risk/reward ratio that you can only find out by taking them. I'm getting annoyed because people are being given positive reports and negating them, you should always be sceptical but there is now an idea floating around that MXE will cause bladder problems or something, but this has always been a concern, it just hasn't manifested itself yet.

Also about 2CB.. you see I'm sorry but that's really what I don't understand about your view, you say it isn't referred to as an RC anymore.. but it is, it's not been around long enough with enough usage to discover if it's not harmful... and the thing is that RC is just a label, be it natural, pharmacy, or around for a long time, or brand new, they're all the same, the fact is that most chemicals don't kill you, and damage if any is usually much more subtle and hard to know... for example, ketamine was deemed to be completely safe, until it got cheap and had loads of people doing it every day, it's only recently that people have started to notice it has real harmful effects... people would show up with bladder problems and never even drew a conclusion. The chemist point is important, someone like Shulgin are willing to try their own creations, it's because they have a reasonable knowledge about what they're dealing with.

one more edit: Also Fractal, that's a good point you made about being comfortable with aya.. I'm not actually that comfortable with aya, it's scares the shit out of me and I worry about the effect DMT has on my mind, I still do it, but I'm sceptical like I am of all drugs... also I've done MXE probably over 60 times now, which I agree is pretty shocking when I look at it... but I do feel comfortable with it and although I wouldn't be surprised if there is some horrible side effect waiting to drop, it just hasn't happened yet and I don't want people to get freaked out about something that hasn't happened yet.

 

[۩]

FYI, I experience no negative side effects with MXE.
Turns out the vendor sent me methiopropamine a while back and that's why I ranted about purity and then deleted my post.
Pure MXE feels inert and special. Not to be abused.

 

[soulfood]

I can only comment on my own experience, but I will say MXE has less negative side/after effects instantly apparent than than many other frequently used substances like MDMA, Cocaine and even mescaline which is generally considered quite safe.

I think it's always good to listen to your body and mind. Whilst MDMA is generally considered quite safe, I think that's just compared to what people initially thought about it after the outbreak of rave fatalities. MDMA gives me some horrible after effects, Panic attacks, temporary depression and 3-4 days fatigue. MXE generally leaves me feeling pretty good.

 

[ibeing897]

MDMA is probably the best example of this, most of what we know about MDMA is anecdotal. Science keeps on flipping whether it's harmful or not... but after years and years of reports we've got a consensus about what it is like. If you look at something like mephedrone, it took just a month of two of experience to realise what it's downsides were... now with MXE I've been using it since October, before it was largely available and in that time I've read many anecdotal reports, and the consensus at the moment, is that it's pretty good - seems fairly safe. I would have less fear of this than some of the obscure 2C's for example, because I haven't actually read a lot of anecdotal reports.

Another thing, being 2011, it's actually much easier to gather anecdotal reports than it was back in the 90s when MDMA was dropping... back then you had the word of your mates to rely on, it's a different game now, much more distribution, much better communication, more people using. Places like this.

 

[narmz]

^ nobody said it was safer.

...

we're talking about a completely new thing, it doesn't have the same kind of physical negative effects

...

You're an idiot, you can't even discriminate information. You have nothing to say. You don't understand what you're reading, safer, no I didn't say that, I was suggesting that it is intended to be safer.. tell you what, you better not write a single comment wrong or out of line in any way again because I'm going to be all over it - you're unbelievable.

...
man you're mean, you really need to calm down and think before you post, i put a lot of thought in my posts and i try to address what is said instead of letting the discussion degrade into personal attacks. This forum isn't a competition man, we're all here expressing our ideas, try not to let it turn into a petty ego battle.

You come off as really aggressive and threatening, it doesn't really create a very good environment for discourse.

 

[ibeing897]

^ nobody said it was safer.

man you're mean, you really need to calm down and think before you post, i put a lot of thought in my posts and i try to address what is said instead of letting the discussion degrade into personal attacks. This forum isn't a competition man, we're all here expressing our ideas, try not to let it turn into a petty ego battle.

You come off as really aggressive and threatening, it doesn't really create a very good environment for discourse.

Oh I come off as aggressive and threatening? this is a message board. You've got nothing to worry about - if you'd have said that to me in person, it would've been a different story. What are you a child? you feel like I'm aggresive so you attack me?? You didn't put a lot of thought into your post.. you wrote that I was telling everyone it was safe and that I was doing a "horrible thing" when my entire involvement in this thread has been to encourage safety and responsible usage.. you totally took what I said out of context, you completely misread what I wrote and put your own spin onto it... there is no ego battle here... you're wrong plain and simple. yet for some reason you want to disagree with everything I say... your position is exactly the same as mine... don't you dare come on here saying I'm mean, you need get a grip on your posting...

This is the quote you took and said I was doing a "horrible thing" saying it was safer: "MXE is a designer drug, made by man for man, it's not a side effect or accident of a drug like LSD, alcohol, weed, mushrooms, etc. DMT would be a side effect drug if it weren't naturally occurring in our body. That says something about safety and understanding, the MXE molecule was crafted to behave a certain way and therefore it's side effects are somewhat predictable."

Try reading that again, lose the attitude. "it doesn't really create a very good environment for discourse. " LOL - guy going around telling everyone they're doing a horrible thing.