• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Mimosa and U.S. law

Migrated topic.
lontana da verita

lontana da verita

Rising Star
I did a little searching, and I couldn't find this on the internet, or if there was another of this thread, so I apologize if there is.

Due to the thread proving mimosa is technically speaking illegal under U.S. law, the recent ebay bans and the arrest of of our friend in New Zealand, Its peaked my curiosity.

Has anyone been convicted for mimosa possession/production etc. under U.S. law?
 
I am currently being prosecuted by the DEA and U.S. Federal Government for Mimosa Hostilis root bark (MHRB)! I was arrested by the DEA back in November of 2008. I extracted DMT for my own personal use. If anyone wanted to try it, I gave it to them. One day I was approached by a friend who asked to purchase some. I had invested quite a bit of money into the project so I decided to, which was a fatal mistake. I was unaware that his friend (whom I did not know) was currently being setup by the DEA through an old acquaintance, selling the narc LSD. The DMT I had sold him went from his hands, to the friend, to the narc, to the DEA. One sale and it ends up with the DEA, so when this site tells you never ever to sell DMT, believe them. BAD IDEA.

They ended up with the few grams I had sold him, about a half a gram I had in my possession when they kicked down the door in a morning raid, a crock pot that was filled with used up MHRB that had yet be disposed of, and 952 grams of MHRB. The DEA was under the impression that I was some big time producer, when in fact I was only making it for myself and had only made one sale, which went to them. They do not have much on me in regards to the DMT, but the issue is the fact that the DEA is charging the MHRB as 100% DMT. This case has been in limbo for two and a half years.

It was originally dismissed after seven months because paperwork was not filed on time. The first plea bargain that was offered to me was 2 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. I told my lawyer that I did not agree with the MHRB charge. I told him that the legal status of MHRB was ambiguous, and that if they were able to charge the MHRB as illegal, they should only be able to do so according to how much DMT could have been extracted from it. He agreed with the logic of that argument, and contacted federal probation to see if they agreed, which they did. In court, the judge hears from three sides, the prosecutor, the defense, and probation. Since probation decided to side with me, it was going to be them and myself versus the prosecution.

Throughout the next year my lawyer would get two letters from the prosecutor stating that the DEA chemist argued that the MHRB was a "mixture containing DMT," and was thus chargeable as 100% DMT. He replied that neither he nor probation agreed.

This past February the government finally decided to bring the charges back up. I have court again on June 2nd. I was contacted by my lawyer today who told me that probation had decided to change their stance on the MHRB issue. It is my contention that they were pressured by the government to take this stance. I asked my lawyer if there was any precedent for the government charging MHRB as 100% DMT. He said that his people could not find any case whatsoever. I find it hard to imagine that I would be the first person being charged with this, but if this is the case then I am going to need the help of anyone who is outraged over this in order to make sure that they are not victorious and are able to set a precedent with my case. Also, the difference between me winning and losing on the MHRB charge is probation versus a few years in jail, respectively.

My lawyer agrees with my stance, but he strongly suspects that if I do not take the plea bargain I have a good chance of losing this battle in front of a jury. I simply cannot accept taking a plea bargain that states MHRB=DMT and go to jail for two years. I have three jobs and am almost finished with a dual bachelor degree in Physics and Mathematics.

My question to the DMT Nexus community is two-fold. Does anyone know of any cases in which MHRB was prosecuted as DMT? Also, does anyone have any ideas that can help me build an adequate defense in court. I have many, and I don't wish to outline them all right now, but I feel that this is extremely important for not only myself, but for every person that decides to purchase MHRB. I want to build as big an arsenal as I can before I decide to take this to trial. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Yep, I think that link covers the subject pretty well.

To answer your question explicitly: The only case I know of where someone has been charged with possession of MHRB was a Kansas-based vendor arrested a little over a year ago. It's important to note that they were arrested by local, not federal, authorities. The charges were dropped... I suspect because the federal authorities advised the state not to pursue the case (fearing that a precedent unfavorable to the current climate of prohibition might be set if the case were resolved in court). And it doesn't hurt that under Kansas law, the authorities got to keep pretty much all the money they took from the vendor regardless of whether the case went to trial.

Other than that, in all cases that I've seen where someone was arrested in while in possession of MHRB, they were also committing other felonies (such as manufacturing pure DMT from the root bark, or synthesizing MDMA or other drugs, etc.), and so they were charged with these other felonies and the MHRB was ignored.

For reasons that I make clear in the link that Endlessness posted, I think there is virtually zero danger of anyone who is not a major distributor or extracting DMT getting arrested for MHRB by federal authorities. It's only local authorities that could be a wildcard.

Edit: I stand corrected. Evidently when they raid for DMT manufacture and you have MHRB set up to extract but no DMT, they will charge for the MHRB. I wish OtherWorldly the best of luck here
 
OtherWorldly said:
My question to the DMT Nexus community is two-fold. Does anyone know of any cases in which MHRB was prosecuted as DMT?
Click to expand...
Not yet, but you can absolutely expect that the courts will see it that way. In the Supreme Court decision on the UDV case, they explicitly acknowledge that Psychotria viridis is a schedule I drug by virtue of containing DMT. The exact same argument applies to MHRB, and I don't think any lesser court would contradict supreme court precedent without good reason.

Also, does anyone have any ideas that can help me build an adequate defense in court. I have many, and I don't wish to outline them all right now, but I feel that this is extremely important for not only myself, but for every person that decides to purchase MHRB. I want to build as big an arsenal as I can before I decide to take this to trial. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

I'm sure others may have ideas, but I outlined my thoughts on this subject in the link endlessness posted. I'm particularly interested in what your lawyer thinks of the strategy that I call "Argument from Ubiquity".
 
I'm extremely sad to hear about your situation OtherWorldly.

Of course, the first thing is always to get the BEST lawyer you can--although I understand the expense can be painful. It seems to me that an aggressive lawyer could easily get something like this pleaded down to nothing much, and in the real world, that's probably the most likely positive scenario for you.

I do congratulate you for using yourself as an example for other forum members, and reminding us that spice SHOULD NEVER BE SOLD! Although the situation you describe is perfectly understandable, it serves as a lesson for the rest of us who haven't had the bad luck you have.

I hold the STRONGEST WISHES I can that you can come through all this with the least "damage" possible.


Edit: I guess this is the case, right.

Hmmm, here's another little story that's troubling (which sounds like 1.4 pounds of BARK to me).

And another...
 
Yes SWIM, that is the case, although the details outlined in those news reports are not facts. That was yellow journalism at best. Don't believe what it being presented there, it's mostly BS.
 
The other story you posted is outright propaganda. "People could die. People will get sick from it." What?? The disinfo is startling...
 
OtherWorldly said:
The other story you posted is outright propaganda. "People could die. People will get sick from it." What?? The disinfo is startling...
Click to expand...

It's ALL propaganda and pure bullshit. It's CREEPY to read when you know the real score. You're preaching to the choir.
 
I'm very sorry for your situation OtherWorldly. I wish you the best of luck with your case.

I have a collection of rants about the horrible actions taken by our government against innocent people, but I'm sure everyone else here could say the same, and have given similar rants many times.

Entropy, I read your sticky post with great interest. I was, for a little while at least, convinced MHRB was ambiguously legal. I'm just taking my first steps into the DMT realm and I would very much like to avoid prison. I only intend personal use through small shipments of Mimosa, and I'm wondering how much of a risk I'm taking. Obviously, working with any sort of schedule I substance poses some risk, but I'm trying to tread lightly around this complex legal issue. A clearly illegal substance being traded openly online is what I'm buying, that gives me a couple chills.

Im also quite concerned that there will be a crackdown on MHRB production and online selling soon, but your analysis was quite thorough and gives me some hope. I really don't want my work with DMT to crash before it even gets of the ground.

On a personal note, in my most recent experience with DMT, I acquired an intuitive knowledge that I will never be arrestws for using it and I will be involved with it for a long time. My rational mind finds a great deal to doubt about this but it gives me some more peace of mind.
 
I am sorry to hear this OtherWorldly. I would like to help you but have no idea how. I see it this way: there is no way they can say that 100g of MHRB contains 100g of DMT. If that the argument about that you should be able to prove it. And subsequently win the case.

But there is still some percentage of DMT in MHRB plus they found DMT in your property plus you sold DMT to them and I think that’s enough for DEA to send you to prison. This is just what I think about it. We all know that this is all shit about DMT being illegal in the first place but unfortunately it is illegal.

If I was in your shoes I would be probably looking for some deal if there is any possibility to get one.

I am so f. angry about this when you can lose you freedom just because of a plant or its extract. This world is so f.up
 
My position has always been if I ever decided to offer DMT for sale, I might as well go all-in and sell meth, crack and heroin to boot. If it's all the same in the eyes of the law then there's no additional risk, and dealing the hard drugs will at least net me enough cash to afford a six-figure lawyer who can keep me out of prison.
 
Otherworldly, I've been thinking some more about your particular situation, and a couple of points have occurred to me:

I think there's a very good defense against the manufacture charge, since they're charging you for a couple kilos of DMT (i.e. MHRB). You bought the root bark as-is, you didn't manufacture it yourself. And they're contending that you intended to extract DMT from it. But if they're charging you with manufacture, they're basically saying that (in legal terms) you were intending to take a couple kilos of DMT and manufacture a couple dozen grams of DMT from it. That simply doesn't make sense; it's the exact opposite of manufacture, in legal terms their manufacture charge is tantamount to saying you intended to destroy a couple kilos of DMT (~98.5% of the mass of the root bark). If they want to regard the starting material is 100% DMT (as the controlled substances act says), then they can't possibly charge you for manufacture. In that sense, an extraction is no different than cooking a bottle of ketamine solution down to a powder.

If they go with possession with intent to distribute, that's trickier. Then again, I don't know that they have solid evidence that puts the issue beyond reasonable doubt. And even if they do, it's still no different than Home Depot selling san pedro cactus, or a pet shop selling rats, cats, dogs, and guinea pigs. The ubiquity argument still applies. When the judge realizes that many established businesses, including big-box chains, are "distributing illegal drugs" under the controlled substances act (as the DEA is seeking to apply it in your case), your lawyer might be able to plea down to next-to-nothing. Or if it goes to trial, I'd hope that would sway a jury in your favor.
 
Those are brilliant points you made Entropymancer. I fully intend to give both of them to my lawyer. Those are exactly the types of arguments I was hoping to gather in response to my post. Thanks so much for taking the time to think about this.

If I am able to beat the MHRB charge, I am only looking at probation, because the DEA defines 1 gram of DMT equivalent to 1 ounce of Marijuana. When all is said and done, the amount of DMT I had extracted was equivalent to 1 lb. of marijuana (at most, probably much less), so it's really not that much.
 
It's simiply amazing how with all the damage done to the country via alcohol and opiates, that LE/prosecutors will take the time to twist a cactus in somebody's yard along with a knife and a cooking pot in their kitchen into a "mescaline lab". So what if the ingredients came from Home Depot or Willams Sonoma.

Or how by adding a liter of water to a gram of spice, you suddenly end up with a kilogram of spice (since it's a "mixture"). So with 2 liters of water you get 2 prosecutable kg of spice?

Maybe cases like this are "low hanging fruit" for prosecutors, who need easy convictions to keep their percentages - and budgets and reputations -up.

I'm sure you have all of our best wishes!
 
I think that one big crux of their argument is the fact that they think the mimosa powder itself is usable. My understanding is that mimosa powder is not usable in itself, unless it is combined with an MAOI containing plant and brewed into ayahuasca.

The assistant DEA said "Mimosa powder itself is in all likelihood 'usable' if mixed with liquid substance or stirred into something (e.g. water, tea, coffee, gel caps - you're going to get a dose of DMT)."

I think the above quote is completely ridiculous. Does anyone know of any means of using the mimosa root bark powder to get a psychedelic dose of DMT without DMT being extracted or in combination with an MAOI?
 
Well, at first I was highly mislead about the legal status of this sacred bark in the USA on the internet, A lot of sources said possessing the bark is legal, So long as its not used to create illegal substances, Then upon reading this - On the Legal Status of DMT Source Plants in the US (with a discussion of the religious use defense) - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus Helped me to understand the risk behind ordering it.(and also made me realize to not go around telling the whole world I have MHRB if I do somehow get it) I've been studying Cyb's Hybrid ATB salt tek, like a mad man, getting myself familiarized with the process, Just to come to find out that there is a chance that ordering the bark could lead to legal issues, or jail time.

Mod said:
No discussion of buying/selling/sourcing. Please read the attitude!
Click to expand...

Seeing as otherwordly is not to far from were I am located REALLY makes me nervous to. I hope everything turned out ok for you my friend.
 
Back
Top Bottom