Mimosa/Rue very slow onset?

[visualvisions]

Have tried searching for info in relation to this but couldn't find anything.

Have recently made a MH brew (triple boil, egg white wash, remaining sediment crashed out) that causes no nausea or purge (10g MH taken). Taken with 3.5-4g of Rue, powdered and capped in 00 (gelatine) 30 mins before on 6hour fasted stomach. Now here's the strange part - twice I have waited approx 3 hours for the effects to come on (first time thought was a dud, second time knew to wait, and both times never re-dosed), but they are strong , amazing and profound when they do, and last for about 5 hours. Has anyone else had this experience?

A previous brew with the same materials produced effects after 45 mins which felt much more 'normal' of an onset time.

EDIT: I should probably add that 10g MH is a lot, but, I started low (2g) and moved up. I think that two things contribute to this - potentially 'weak' (but reliable) MH and loss of potency in the egg wash and tannin crash. Have tried 10g three times and has never been more than I can handle.

 

[RhythmSpring]

It takes me about 3 days to feel the effects of Ayahuasca (ACRB + Rue).

But I'm reeally weird. Good to know someone else is experiencing delays, even if they're not as extreme as mine.

 

[visualvisions]

Rhythm - three days? As in you feel the psychedelic effects after three days of ingestion, or the benefits of the brew? How are you taking it?

 

[pitubo]

Have recently made a MH brew (triple boil, egg white wash, remaining sediment crashed out) that causes no nausea or purge (10g MH taken). Taken with 3.5-4g of Rue, powdered and capped in 00 (gelatine) 30 mins before on 6hour fasted stomach.

Why do you gelcap the rue? Could you try making a brew from the rue, just like from the mimosa? Then ingest the two brews together. If you gelcap the rue, you are never certain how long the body needs to extract the alkaloids from it. Plus the nausea is a little less if you do not eat all of the plant stuff.

It could also help to eat a little buttered bread after drinking the tea. This kickstarts the digestive systems, especially after a 6 hour fast.

 

[visualvisions]

Thanks Pitubo. I cap the Rue to get rid of the taste. I've found that this method works for me and doesn't cause nausea so will likely continue. I've also heard contradictory reports on tea extract making rue better and worse so a bit unsure at the moment. Regarding Rue alkaloids, it would seem that if the MAOI (or RIMA in this case) was not working, or timing completely off, then the MH DMT would just be broken down and I would feel no effect from that half?

I have read that about eating just prior to kickstart the digestive system, although I am hesitant. The thing that is confusing is that a previous brew from the exact same batch of materials took effect after 45 mins. One thought that has just crossed my mind is that maybe the rue hasn't taken effect when I drink the tea.. but then the effects are similar to those had in the jungle and I don't think Rue causes the same introspection, visions and extreme euphoric bliss that DMT can..?

 

[visualvisions]

Thanks Spirit. I am aware that there is (more than)likely a loss of potency with the egg white wash. I've read about a ph change to crash out the tannins but leave the DMT (I think it's called the gourmet MH tek or something similar). I should have added that my three washes are with citric acid (1g per 10g of MH), sorry for the lack of clarity on my part here.

I don't think they have been misfires either. Very slow, strangely slow, onset yes, but progress to full experiences (not hyperspace, yet) - visions, introspection, euphoria, CEVs (to a degree).. I don't think that is a misfire? (genuine question).

 

[pitubo]

I only use extracted, purified and precisely dosed dmt fumarate and harmala HCl for my oral journeys. Even then there is a slight variation in effects and in time of onset, though I figure that it is a lot more predictable than the more crude methods.

Apart from the varying alkaloid content in natural materials, a large source of unpredictability is the role of the digestive system. Using purified extracts excludes all of the alkaloidal variations and most of the digestive variatiability, but still not all of it.

The role of the digestive system should not be underestimated as it must not only digest the alkaloids out of the plant stuff, but also take it up into the intestines and pass it on onto the central nervous system. There is a lot of information on preparation and dosage, but not so much on these aspects of administration.

 

[RhythmSpring]

Rhythm - three days? As in you feel the psychedelic effects after three days of ingestion, or the benefits of the brew? How are you taking it?

The psychedelic, nauseating effects.

It just occurred to me that it might have to do with my salt intake. I've heard from multiple, experienced sources that high salt intake sort of grounds the user away from the visionary experiences.

And I eat more salt than you would ever believe. I've averaged an ounce a day. Again, I'm weird, and don't allow me to represent what's even close to normal. But maybe my case can demonstrate some aspects of taking ayahusca.

 

[Jees]

... Has anyone else had this experience?...

With gel caps the potential come-on delay risk is higher than when the alks are drunk in a liquid tea, is my experience. Not always, but more likely.
To counter that, I drink a full glass water with the caps, and also some after 30 mins, after 60 mins, as an agent to make things move a bit in the stomach.

You could also rise the 6 hours no eat time, and care that what you eat before is of a fast digesting type, no heavy or fatty or not a lot of bread.....

You could also eat some spoons of oat porridge with the caps, it greases the tract and engages the stomach to work instead of idle. It's all about getting movement in that tube. The oat is a real digest softener, quite a luxury for the internals on alks, and an alleged intensity increase (but that is, IMO, due the transit improvement --> all hits faster together instead of batch wise).

You could also have a purge session before the caps intake, drinking loads of warm water, purge, drink, purge,.., till stomach is really empty. This also removes a pack of slime that was in the stomach, you would be surprised. This approach always lead me to fastest come on, like the stomach immediately transit everything that follows after those purges.

When an egg wash is done fine, you don't loose all power. Be sure the pH is below 6 (better 4 - 5) before adding egg-white, pH rises during egg wash. When the eggs are in the coffee filter, I really squeeze it out hard not to loose liquid. I read that point about dmt-tannate loosing, but practical evidence indicate a very minor loss, next to neglect-able, when done right.

 

[visualvisions]

Thanks for the responses! It's seeming that it could a 'digesting' issue. The brews still work (pretty darn well imo) but could be sped up through various means. One suggestion that was made to me was to prick the caps so they break down quicker in the gut. I may try that as a first step next time, otherwise the Rue tea and additional fasting/porridge eating measures could be the way to go.

When an egg wash is done fine, you don't loose all power. Be sure the pH is below 6 (better 4 - 5) before adding egg-white, pH rises during egg wash. When the eggs are in the coffee filter, I really squeeze it out hard not to loose liquid. I read that point about dmt-tannate loosing, but practical evidence indicate a very minor loss, next to neglect-able, when done right.

Thanks Jees, I don't feel like I'm losing a large amount, and the brew is still very acidic when drunk after all prep is done. I should probably monitor the pH though. The first brew that hit in 45mins was significantly more acidic that the last two, but not sure how this would make much difference as the intensity of the experiences has been pretty similar.

There is a lot of information on preparation and dosage, but not so much on these aspects of administration.

Pitubo, I wonder if it's worth starting a thread about this?

 

[physics envy]

I don't have as much experience as most others on here, but my last aya journey did not really kick in until about 4-5 hours after having drank an initial cup and a second one a few hours later. I was at a Daime session, and after the evening was basically over and everyone was sharing food, it kicked in pretty quickly.

I also had one rue+spice journey that I thought was a dud after a couple of hours where nothing happened until I strolled into the kitchen and ate something little. The journey then kicked in rather quickly.

These are of course very anecdotal, but it has steered me in the direction of eating something light while taking any oral medicine to kick-start my digestive system.

 

[visualvisions]

Update:

Same batch of brew as before, and same quantity of Rue powdered and gelcapped. 7/8hr fast prior. Also added ~30mg spice. Rue caps consumed with a glass of water, followed immediately by two spoons of plain (cooked)porridge. At 30mins, consumed brew then the spice (this was done via dissolving in original [i.e. real sugar] cola so freebase->phosphate/citrate) also immediately after.

30mins after the brew+spice began noticing effects. Was progressing to a very visual trip but the purge, a real purge, finally hit . This was probably 1.5hrs after drinking the brew and a fascinating experience. Effects dropped off shortly after the purging session (which was itself 30-45mins), so after about 3 hours of ingestion, when previously I only started feeling effects, it was mostly over.

Thanks Jees for the tips!! Very much appreciated !

@physics envy - hopefully the above is helpful/informative in some way? Really does seem to progress things when the gut is moving!

 

[dismany]

It has been a while for me since my series of oral rue-dmt trips...2012-2013 winter solstice. Didn't take long for me, about 2 hours. I first took the harmalas, in form or rue tea that I brewed over the course of one day. Drank the tea...waited about an hour till I felt nice and harmala-stoned and then ate the spice with a bite of some fruit. Then in another half hour I blasted off, knowing that by the time the smoked hit ends I'll be just starting to peak off the oral dmt...and this is what happened, and it was amazing. Getting ready for my next big oral dose soon.