Modafinil and harmalas

[blig-blug]

I'm on a deadline lately, and have taken R-modafinil some days, as it helps me focus. I had it this morning without considering the fact that I have an Ayahuasca experience planned for tomorrow night. Given it's the R isomer, that means only three half lives will have elapsed, so I'll still have around 20mg in my system.

Does anyone have any information on the safety of taking harmalas with some modafinil left? I've only found a couple of case reports of hypertensive crises from people that had modafinil with pharmaceutical irreversible inhibitors. I've also found a handful of anecdotal reports of people taking it in combination with moclobemide without apparent ill effects (no case reports of medical problems with moclobemide). None of the resources about drugs to avoid with Aya mentions it, either.

I'd be grateful for any information or experience related to this.

 

[universecannon]

Couldn't find much but I found this thread

Might be a risky combination

Is modafinil an antidepressant - Introduction Essay - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

[Edit: here's the link on the new forum:

Is modafinil an antidepressant

I have been on modafinil for the past 3 or 4 months will this effect any ayahuasca trip?

forum.dmt-nexus.me

 

[blig-blug]

Couldn't find much but I found this thread

Might be a risky combination

Is modafinil an antidepressant - Introduction Essay - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Thanks for the link, I did see that thread but based on the title I didn't think it would be about this topic.

I agree it could be risky. I'll probably accept that I messed up and wait for the next occasion. I'm considering maybe trying a small amount of harmalas sublingually, but even if I don't feel anything weird I don't think I'll have the brew. As I don't want to be worrying about this during the experience.

 

[blig-blug]

I was able to find more information, and actually it looks like it would be safe.
There is a letter to the journal that published the case study of hypertensive crisis, and the author argues it's unlikely to be due to modafinil: https://www.jns-journal.com/article/S0022-510X(19)30002-4/abstract#

As the authors review, there are no other cases in the literature of an acute hypertensive reaction to this combination, but rather there are a number of cases of the safe concurrent use of modafinil and an MAOI. This coincides with my experience as well in safely combining MAOIs with modafinil. Rather than a drug- drug toxic interaction one can offer an alternative explanation, with better support in the literature, for the hypertensive crisis in Kinslow's patient. That is, a spontaneous hypertensive crisis due solely to the MAOI.

Turns out, modafinil has been used successfully with irreversible MAOIs:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1389945704001145

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.161.9.1716-a

So, if it has been used in regular 100mg doses with full doses of pharmaceutical irreversible MAOIs without issues, I don't think a leftover of 20mg will cause issues with a RIMA like harmalas.

 

[northape]

It should be quite an awakening ceremony. Please, report back for future generations
I tried aya with huperzine-A, and it added a lot of clarity to the experience. I wonder what modafinil would add.
Stay safe

 

[blig-blug]

It should be quite an awakening ceremony. Please, report back for future generations
I tried aya with huperzine-A, and it added a lot of clarity to the experience. I wonder what modafinil would add.
Stay safe

If in the end I do it, I'll report for sure. If I still feel some leftover effects from the modafinil I won't do it because I don't want to add too much stimulation to the experience, but I don't think I will. Usually I don't feel it anymore after around 14 hours. What I'm sure I will get is an "assessment" of whether using the substance has been positive or negative: for example, I really cut back on my occasional use of pregabalin after an experience where I could see the pattern wasn't healthy.

 

[ABe©eDarian]

I sometimes take Modafinil. Mostly at the half pill (100mg) dose rather than the full 200mg dose. Never have with harmala in me, but have with Aurorix/Moclobemide in me, also at a half pill (150mg) dose instead of the full 300mg dose which is more so the equivalent of how much Harmala Alkaloids it takes for full inhibition and oral DMT to be active.

Officially it's said that 'concurrent use of modafinil (or armodafinil) and MAOIs is contraindicated due to a theoretical risk of drug synergism and hypertensive crises, though limited data exists to fully support this risk, with some case studies suggesting the combination may be safe under careful monitoring.

The Harmalas, and the Moclobemide, are RIMAs. Mostly I take the difference as RIMAs bring little to no risk for most people as far as food diet restrictions but drug combos can go as far as to be as risky or even as deadly as Non-Reversible MAOIs.

So the Modafinil left in you would be on the fade with still some residual in there. Ends up being up to you but maybe consider that if anything about the Aya experience feels uncomfortable and worrying it might be fear in the back of your mind that personal contraindication is the cause.

 

[blig-blug]

if anything about the Aya experience feels uncomfortable and worrying it might be fear in the back of your mind that personal contraindication is the cause

Yes, that's currently my main concern. So if I feel any residual modafinil effects, I won't take it.

Thank you for sharing your experience, it's reassuring to know that someone else here has tried something similar. It's doesn't guarantee anything but in combination with the case studies I've read, it seems like it's a reasonably safe combination, if perhaps not fully advisable.

 

[Transform]

Thanks for the link, I did see that thread but based on the title I didn't think it would be about this topic.

I agree it could be risky. I'll probably accept that I messed up and wait for the next occasion. I'm considering maybe trying a small amount of harmalas sublingually, but even if I don't feel anything weird I don't think I'll have the brew. As I don't want to be worrying about this during the experience.

Did you read the last post in that thread? It's a good report on a single usage of changa after a modafinil dose.

 

[blig-blug]

Did you read the last post in that thread? It's a good report on a single usage of changa after a modafinil dose.

Yes, although as the user points out, it's not the same with vaporized harmalas as with oral. But it's also true that he was smoking it 4 hours after taking 200mg modafinil, while I will be having it 40 hours after taking 75mg.

 

[Transform]

Here's what you might call a parable - yesterday, while helping with tidying up after lunch, my kid lightly chipped a glass storage container while taking it out of the cupboard in order to store some leftover cheese.

I found the small glass chip and disposed of it, then returned to find the glass container filled with the cheese. When I asked my kid if they'd rinsed out the container, they replied that they hadn't.

Would you eat the cheese?


At least you get to keep your ayahuasca for later (and you'll probably be fine even if you went ahead anyway) but we decided - somewhat begrudgingly - to dispose of the sadly rather tasty cheese. And so it was chalked down as a learning experience.

 

[blig-blug]

Would you eat the cheese?

It depends on the kind of cheese...

Jokes aside, I understand what you mean. While I do get to keep the ayahuasca, on the other hand eating cheese doesn't require to be able to set hour aside for it (depending on the amount too, I guess!).

Anyways, I found that today I'm still feeling slightly stimulated, so I won't take it. I think it would be safe, but the stimulation could add a negative headspace to it. That negative headspace is likely to manifest as muscle tension and faster heart rate, and I don't want to be having to guess if it's psychological or an interaction with modafinil.

 

[blig-blug]

Also it looks like in the end I'll be able to take it this Friday. So waiting a couple of days is a no-brainer in this situation. Yesterday I thought I was going to have to wait for longer.

 

[Transform]

It depends on the kind of cheese...

Ftr, it was feta marinated in olive oil and a Mediterranean herb & spice mix.