My roommate went to Peru to do ayahuasca with shamans and never returned

[kgoose]

So just as the title states, my ex-roommate left for Peru to go to temple and trip on ayahuasca for 14 days. He will be lead through the jungle by shamans on a hike to get to their isolated civilization. After he got back to civilization with internet, he sent me his journaled experience day by day and also told me his future plans. Basically it came down to him willing to donate $50,000+ and never return to the U.S. He claims his severe depression and suicidal ideation has vanished as well as his new profound love for mother earth (Gaia). The experiences were pretty nutty, and this is only what text can capture.

He lived with me for a month then decided to go to Peru very suddenly, like 2 days after he had the idea. He actually told me our conversations initiated the research about DMT etc. This is the site he used and recommends http://www.templeofthewayoflight.org/

He has been gone since December 1st 2010 and has gone on 2-3 retreats so far.

... oh yeah and he said he wants to become a gardener and never return back to the U.S

I have a lot of my own thoughts on this whole situation but figured I would share this very unique story. Just opening this thread to any types of discussion, questions.

Be good,
Kgoose

 

[obliguhl]

It seems like your friend has had some profound experiences. There is no doubt, psychedelics can be lifechanging, especially if taken in a meaningful context. I doubt that one can be totally free from our "western civilisation", even after extensive work with plants. But still, if this is your friends path, you should not be sad, but be happy for him.

I don't know if you have any experience with this plants, or if you are just here to gain some insights. All i can tell you is, that it can be very profound and even if it sounds "nutty" its as real as life can get.

 

[Mister_Niles]

Donate $50k? Was this his idea or their idea?

The thought of becoming a gardener and never returning to the u.s. sounds very appealing, but I think he might want to return to the u.s. and take a couple months to integrate his experiences. Merely being in a strange new place can be a euphoric, even psychedelic experience in itself. He should probably consider making such major decisions from his home turf.

Read the Health & Safety section. Here's something from the part on integration that I think could apply to your friend:

Do not make strong decisions during/just after a psychedelic experience. So if you really feel like saying something important to somebody, or quitting your job due to a realization, or any radical decision, write it down but please always wait for the next day (or week or month), to think over and get the perspective from another state of consciousness. If its the right decision, one can still make it afterwards even if one has waited, but if its the wrong decision and one makes it impulsively, there might be no turning back and one can seriously disrupt his/her or other people's lives.

The part that says : (or week or month) should be (or week or month or 2 after he has come home). Because, really, who likes to come home from a great vacation? Who likes to come down from a 100% blissed out trip?

This is just my opinion. I could be totaly wrong. I'd also like to know more about the $50k donation part.

 

[kgoose]

Donate $50k? Was this his idea or their idea?

The thought of becoming a gardener and never returning to the u.s. sounds very appealing, but I think he might want to return to the u.s. and take a couple months to integrate his experiences. Merely being in a strange new place can be a euphoric, even psychedelic experience in itself. He should probably consider making such major decisions from his home turf.

Read the Health & Safety section. Here's something from the part on integration that I think could apply to your friend:

Do not make strong decisions during/just after a psychedelic experience. So if you really feel like saying something important to somebody, or quitting your job due to a realization, or any radical decision, write it down but please always wait for the next day (or week or month), to think over and get the perspective from another state of consciousness. If its the right decision, one can still make it afterwards even if one has waited, but if its the wrong decision and one makes it impulsively, there might be no turning back and one can seriously disrupt his/her or other people's lives.

The part that says : (or week or month) should be (or week or month or 2 after he has come home). Because, really, who likes to come home from a great vacation? Who likes to come down from a 100% blissed out trip?

This is just my opinion. I could be totaly wrong. I'd also like to know more about the $50k donation part.

Ah we have similar concerns. What you said is pretty much how I think about the situation (him coming back THEN making his permanent decision)

So about the $50k part, ok so this ex-roommate was a professional online poker player. If I had the guess his net value at 25 I would guess $175-225k. The donation was said to him to be for the temple, then after I read their website it made sense bc they say they wish their business to be self-sufficient (running on donations only) by 2018.

Ok so a quick viewpoint from myself? If he truly doesn't come back before making these huge decisions then I can say it seems like he became part of their cycle of life. What is their cycle of life you might ask? I have my own idea that these shamanism cultures live and die with their culture, meaning once you are part of the circle you go through the loop and then die. Children are given ayahuasca at a very young age and the elderly take it as well (he mentions a 85yr old woman shaman a few times) so with that being understood all I think happens is you get thrown into their tribal cyclical lifestyle from our corrupted western world. Because of all the corruption and flaws western society possesses, this seems EXTREMELY appealing and the "right" path of life for them. Before you know it your friend is a shaman and dipped out on a lot of people who cared for him although his ignorance would blind that aspect.

Also because Shamans have thousands of years of experience in this culture, they mastered it. It wouldn't surprise me if these shamans were experienced in brain-washing in some kind of form. They can easily train you to think a certain way with the aid of ayahuasca with their great knowledge about plants and dmt.

 

[kgoose]

It seems like your friend has had some profound experiences. There is no doubt, psychedelics can be lifechanging, especially if taken in a meaningful context. I doubt that one can be totally free from our "western civilisation", even after extensive work with plants. But still, if this is your friends path, you should not be sad, but be happy for him.

I don't know if you have any experience with this plants, or if you are just here to gain some insights. All i can tell you is, that it can be very profound and even if it sounds "nutty" its as real as life can get.

I am happy for him, and not sad. Like I said, our conversations lead to this for a reason. I don't have experience with these type of plants. I do with mushrooms, but that is way different, and I am aware of this. I understand "nutty" is actually the normalcy we must strive to understand but the word nutty is appropriate for the general population. I do plan on experiencing this plant, more so than a lot of people because I am educated and thrilled to take it for the right reasons. When you might ask? Well I'm just following my path of life, but I can predict taking it with my friend in Peru down the road is more than a possibility.

 

[Tamzin]

Perhaps maybe this is the wrong place to put this but, I can sort of empathise because I had a similar experience myself. After I took spice I walked out on a career/job that was paying me £500/€600/$800 to often £2,000/€2,400/$3,200 per day, never to return to it, just ended it immediately just like that, to then tried to develop a new career which makes sod all money and will most likely take me some years before it is even making enough to live on a basic comfortable level with, and will most likely never reach the income level of the job I walked out on the week I first did spice. A job that was really easy and perfectly suited to someone lazy like me, yet my new career is quite hard work actually. So yeah, for sure, it happens.

 

[polytrip]

There is a good chance your roommate will come back someday. drastic decissions people rush themselves into, usually don't lead to something that lasts.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Do you still have contact with him, kgoose?

My old roommate just left for a retreat in Ecuador... I wonder what will become of her. :shock:

 

[Guagua]

im interested to follow this..

i have not got anything to add really, i can see the appeal but also i feel the nexus advice on taking time to integrate the experience before big decisions is a very important one.

I am also looking to head off to latin america for a few years +, in about 18 months or so. It feels like its been calling for a while. I have noticed though how the idea can be quite intoxicating, especially when mixed with the sense of "the right" thing to do. The way i am looking at it now is, work with the plants between now and when i leave, here in a western culture, meditate and still myself in an environment that is full of distractions. if i can be disciplined enough here i will learn a lot more than chasing the fantasy and future projections.

keep us updated!

 

[kgoose]

Do you still have contact with him, kgoose?

My old roommate just left for a retreat in Ecuador... I wonder what will become of her. :shock:

I do have contact with him, he put me on a select list of like 5 people that he sends his experiences or whatever else in an e-mail. So far he has updated me on his first two retreats, and I believe just got done with a third two days ago, so he should contact me soon.

Hmm I didn't care to do this originally, but I've gotten a really good vibe from this board. I'm going to post his diaries of his first ayahuasca experiences later today.

 

[Myco]

I thought this was going to be a story about someone being kidnapped by shamans, hmm.

As mentioned above, folks need to take time and incorporate their experiences into their everday living, and not make quick, drastic decisions after a profound psychedelic session.

 

[olympus mon]

thank you kgoose, this is really fascinating to me or to be more accurate it resonates with me greatly. you have a good head on your shoulders and i feel you are looking at the whole situation very accurately.

ive been to retreats and after 10 days of blissing out with other dozens of other blissed out folks your really not in a good place to make big decisions. some may be startled at my observation thinking; what better time to make a choice about life or finances, but i would disagree. for me i wasnt living in reality and my actons and decisions reflected this through negative outcomes.
im not saying this is the case with your friend, but i agree the big some of money certainly raises an eyebrow.

on the other hand....i think your friend is fortunate to have such a great life changing experience! no doubt he will grow immensely from it for years to come. like you i also feel that no real harm can come from this either way. most likely he is in a total blissed out diss-connected mind set and like polytrip said usually tends to be fleeting. things that shoot up like a rocket tend to crash back down. if he waited a few months before writing that check that would be good.

if and when he does come back it can be very hard for him. i slipped into deep depressed feelings and a very dark place for many months after a retreat. he may need your help re integrating into reality/society.

for me i try to choose small changes on a deeper level and always ....ALWAYS....stay grounded in reality!

 

[polytrip]

I have known people who went through simmilar things. And i don't want to sound cynical but to me, what you describe sounds more like a person who's running away for something (inside himself maybe) then a person who's 'seen the light' so to speak.
Most people can't keep running away from themselves forever, but many people can still come pretty far though. Nevertheless, i think he will come back like most people eventually do.
And this can be very cleansing as well. learning that you can't runaway from yourself is also a learning experience, be it a costly one.

 

[olympus mon]

I have known people who went through simmilar things. And i don't want to sound cynical but to me, what you describe sounds more like a person who's running away for something (inside himself maybe) then a person who's 'seen the light' so to speak.
Most people can't keep running away from themselves forever, but many people can still come pretty far though. Nevertheless, i think he will come back like most people eventually do.
And this can be very cleansing as well. learning that you can't runaway from yourself is also a learning experience, be it a costly one.

polytrip- my man...you hit the nail on the head! that was exactly what i was doing but hey i learned. hopefully this fella will to if thats whats going on here.

 

[Agave]

Eh, good thing it's just money, easy come easy go. I'm proud of your friend, he's young and can always get more $$. It's experiences he needs right now.

 

[kgoose]

he is coming back to the states!!!! going to stay with his mom bc she is sick

 

[macguyver]

had the dramatic change continued to be manifest? does he plan to go back or have any concrete plans?

olympus mon & polytrip.. what if the very thing you are running away from is a lack of meaning or purpose in your life? what if being there allows you to immerse yourself in a deeper form of meaning, of connection than it is possible to get when living a contradictory life in the west?

this is something i am grappling with currently.. though i haven't been on a retreat, i have whipped myself up a couple of concotions here - after 2 profound experiences, i was wrapped in bliss... however this has dissipated as reality bites back - without action, melancholy will return... but what action? sometimes it isn't feasible to find the same sense of connection, of clarity in the west when jumping through the hoops we sometimes must... would you agree?

 

[godling]

Do you still have contact with him, kgoose?

My old roommate just left for a retreat in Ecuador... I wonder what will become of her. :shock:

I do have contact with him, he put me on a select list of like 5 people that he sends his experiences or whatever else in an e-mail. So far he has updated me on his first two retreats, and I believe just got done with a third two days ago, so he should contact me soon.

Hmm I didn't care to do this originally, but I've gotten a really good vibe from this board. I'm going to post his diaries of his first ayahuasca experiences later today.

wow..it sounds like your friend had an amazing experience... do you think you can still post his experience reports????.. would love to read them

 

[olympus mon]

had the dramatic change continued to be manifest? does he plan to go back or have any concrete plans?

olympus mon & polytrip.. what if the very thing you are running away from is a lack of meaning or purpose in your life? what if being there allows you to immerse yourself in a deeper form of meaning, of connection than it is possible to get when living a contradictory life in the west?

this is something i am grappling with currently.. though i haven't been on a retreat, i have whipped myself up a couple of concotions here - after 2 profound experiences, i was wrapped in bliss... however this has dissipated as reality bites back - without action, melancholy will return... but what action? sometimes it isn't feasible to find the same sense of connection, of clarity in the west when jumping through the hoops we sometimes must... would you agree?

that is such a hard one to answer isnt it?
man... who's to say. i just know the power of fleeting bliss and i would bet that what comes on abruptly usually doesn't stand the test of years and years.
my thoughts are that you cant run away from lack of purpose. its not something that exists outside of you. it is you. if a person needs Peruvian ceremony's to find meaning in their life then maybe thats something to look at in its self.

 

[jamie]

"if a person needs Peruvian ceremony's to find meaning in their life then maybe thats something to look at in its self."

Yeah, I often feel that way about the whole ayahuasca tourism thing..one the one hand, it doesnt seem to relevant to where we as westerners are currently..sure I can fly down to peru and show up in some culture with my money and pay for some ceremonies...but how does that integrate into OUR culture? I started this stuff here..I didnt go to some far off country when I started eating mushrooms, I did it here. I am glad that I did. The experiences I had, and have here in this culture have forced me to look at it from an inside perspective. Working with the medicine here seems more relevant than me running off to some other paradigm with an exotic allure..not that exploring other cultures is bad at all, I just think there is something to be said about creating our own context for these things, here. I see some of that within the ayahuasca community, but also alot of resistance and an overshadowing of medicine in abundance here, like mushrooms which are every bit as powerful as ayahuasca..

On the other hand..these people are the elders. They are the ones that have a long lineage and paradigms based on these experinces woven into the mythology of they're people. At the end of the day though I dont believe that some amazonian man or woman has the ability to know any more than you or I..The point is that the experience is something that, at it's core reaches across all cultural boundries..there is a common ground..and that is what unites us. That is why I would one day like to go to mexico and take mushrooms with the mazatecs and maybe ayahuasca in peru or equador..I feel an affinity and great ammount of respect for these people simply due to the fact that this experience, as important as it is, is something we hold in common. I cant say that about most people in my culture..a culture which seems to be breaking at the seams anyway..I think looking to other cultures rooted in a more sustainable peradigm is a good thing, as long as we arent hijacking that train for a quick thrill ride we will soon bore of.. So what is and what isnt relevant is a tricky thing to say. Id say just dont get caught up in something that disempowers YOU..