Naptha composition changes?

[Threeyes]

Hi all I was reading online that some compositions of multiple brands of naphtha have changed and are not suitable for use in A/B extractions can anyone confirm or deny this the info was time-stamped over a year old and I didn't find any corroborating information outside of comments to the same post

Anyone done any recent extractions with naptha that can dispell this rumor?

If allowed I'll link to the post but its easily findable with a search

Thanks in advance

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

If you spell naphtha properly your searches may yield more.

Zippo bought ronson in 2010, and I've read that ronsonol lighter fluid no longer contains naphtha...I never looked into this and do not know much about it, but figured this is what you were referencing, no?

VM&P naphtha is the way to go.

-eg

 

[SnozzleBerry]

VM&P naphtha is the way to go.

VM&P isn't a brand, it's a designation that means "Varnish Maker's and Painter's"

You can get VM&P naphtha from a variety of different brands and the composition and mixtures of hydrocarbons may be slightly different from one brand to the next. Also, remember, these hardware chems are not lab-grade and are not intended for use in products for human consumption. Always do an evap test, even when working with a brand you've used before as you have no way of knowing whether or not this batch is "ok" for use, even if the last batch was fine.

To the OP, for any solvent you're going to use, check the MSDS, which should give you an idea of what the composition is and how suitable it is for use in an extraction. Feel free to post the MSDS here if you need help understanding it

 

[syberdelic]

Crown and Klean strip VMP have changed chemically. - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

It's a bit to read through and in the end inconclusive. There does seem to be two new and unknown components to some VM&P naphthas.
What is known is that these components seem to evaporate at standard temperature and pressure, have little or no effect on non-polar extraction and re-x procedures and have molecular weights of 479/869 as acetate salts. I have performed both extractions and re-x with no noticeable difference in process or product.

 

[Threeyes]

I read through the thread, thanks, what about drying time has that been increased? Or is that part of the inconclusive outcome as well?

 

[syberdelic]

I read through the thread, thanks, what about drying time has that been increased? Or is that part of the inconclusive outcome as well?

Does not appear to change but different naphthas vary widely in evaporation time already.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

VM&P naphtha is the way to go.

VM&P isn't a brand, it's a designation that means "Varnish Maker's and Painter's"

You can get VM&P naphtha from a variety of different brands and the composition and mixtures of hydrocarbons may be slightly different from one brand to the next. Also, remember, these hardware chems are not lab-grade and are not intended for use in products for human consumption. Always do an evap test, even when working with a brand you've used before as you have no way of knowing whether or not this batch is "ok" for use, even if the last batch was fine.

To the OP, for any solvent you're going to use, check the MSDS, which should give you an idea of what the composition is and how suitable it is for use in an extraction. Feel free to post the MSDS here if you need help understanding it

I'm well aware that VM&P is not a brand.

VM&P naphtha is preferable to lighter fluid naphtha was the sentiment.

Of coarse you should be certain your naphtha evaporates clean by performing a test, when I post, I assume that it's understood that responsibility is always the norm, and that all safety precautions have been considered.

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

ronsonol new MSDS - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

This thread may be of interest to the original poster.

-eg

 

[pitubo]

Of coarse you should be certain your naphtha evaporates clean by performing a test, when I post, I assume that it's understood that responsibility is always the norm, and that all safety precautions have been considered.

Assumptions are the mother of all disasters.

Most people who come here new are not as familiar with these techniques and materials as most regular members may be. Many topics are read by random people on the internet who are not even a member of this site and who probably have not read the FAQ, the Attitude page, etc. They may have come here via a search engine. We can not assume anything about who reads the information posted here.

We have to consider the effects of the information presented on this site. We should be considerate of our fellow human beings in their limitations and failings and we should be considerate of the effects that unforeseen and unwanted disasters can have on the public image of our beloved molecules and plants. The traveler might add that we should be considerate of him and his ability to operate this site, too.

When mentioning materials and methods that are not common, in the sense of what most people commonly learn in school or from their parents, we should be careful to emphasize any risks that are equally uncommon to them.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Of coarse you should be certain your naphtha evaporates clean by performing a test, when I post, I assume that it's understood that responsibility is always the norm, and that all safety precautions have been considered.

Assumptions are the mother of all disasters.

Most people who come here new are not as familiar with these techniques and materials as most regular members may be. Many topics are read by random people on the internet who are not even a member of this site and who probably have not read the FAQ, the Attitude page, etc. They may have come here via a search engine. We can not assume anything about who reads the information posted here.

We have to consider the effects of the information presented on this site. We should be considerate of our fellow human beings in their limitations and failings and we should be considerate of the effects that unforeseen and unwanted disasters can have on the public image of our beloved molecules and plants. The traveler might add that we should be considerate of him and his ability to operate this site, too.

When mentioning materials and methods that are not common, in the sense of what most people commonly learn in school or from their parents, we should be careful to emphasize any risks that are equally uncommon to them.

Good point.

I apologize.

I'm well aware that I can "rub people the wrong way", my personality is fairly pretentious and demanding, and I tend to expect a good deal of others, I really have been working on this, and I have been trying to improve.

Any way, what you have posted is reasonable, and in haste I had not considered these things, I sincerely apologize, and will make effort in the future to be mindful of this.

-eg

 

[Ovidroid]

Syber,

To clarify, you are sure you have used the naphtha with the odd polymers discussed in the thread you linked to?

Did you A/B OR STB?

I read that thread and was very nervous. I wonder if it gets trapped in freeze - precipitated crystal and if so if one must chop up the spice over and over and let it dry for a long time to be sure most is out.

I had a terrible experience with an extraction in December. I did not freeze precip but only evapped (I will NEVER EVER EVER do that again, I knew better but still did it, don't ask why). I burned the living daylights out of some spice without realizing it and was terrified after finding that thread about the change in naphtha chemistry for certain brands. I got bronchitis from the product and I've been experiencing shortness of breath and uncomfortable chest sensations ever since. There has been some improvement overall, but I continue to have symptoms.

I don't know if my naphtha has the extra polymer noted in that thread or if I had some kind of inhalation injury from the burned spice, but it has been the worst 4.5 months of my life not knowing what happened to me and letting my imagination take over with what little info I have (including the naphtha composition).

I seriously hope that it wasn't the naphtha, for everyone else's sake. Then again, I can't find any other reports of people suffering what I have from simply burning the crap out of their spice. Looking back, and with everything I've looked up since, I feel certain I suffered an inhalation injury with mild CO poisoning, and the results have led to something a bit like what I imagine asthma to be (I've never had it). I hope it isn't anything more insidious, and I continue to hope for a full recovery.

Anyway, you're sure you've used this "new" naphtha successfully?

 

[Hkz0r]

If you spell naphtha properly your searches may yield more.

Zippo bought ronson in 2010, and I've read that ronsonol lighter fluid no longer contains naphtha...I never looked into this and do not know much about it, but figured this is what you were referencing, no?

VM&P naphtha is the way to go.

-eg

Been using ronsonol this whole time.
Finally ran out and picked up some vm&p naphtha....haven't tried it yet but when I do I'll let you guys know what the difference is.

 

[concombres]

I read through the thread, thanks, what about drying time has that been increased? Or is that part of the inconclusive outcome as well?

Does not appear to change but different naphthas vary widely in evaporation time already.

Syber i have noticed something recently. Klean strip & jasco are both produced or at least canned & sold by w.m. barr.

Jasco naphtha, or at least what i have, has the exact same MSDS as klean strip & same CAS#, yet no clouding issue.

What is up there? Also note, the CAS# has changed from previous years MSDS`s. I believe sherwin williams is the only naphtha i can find an MSDS for that still lists the older CAS# that most naphtha brands were using.

 

[ducdevil]

hey everyone

i've been following this thread and wanted to add some interesting experiential data...

i was out of state this past weekend and had occasion to visit a store where VM&P Naphtha was available; it is not available in the state where i live. i picked up a couple of quarts and brought it home eagerly.

first thing, of course, was an evap test. i use a small, black ceramic dish - very easy to see if there's any residue at all, as sometimes it's difficult to see with a white dish or glass. there was (not surprisingly after all i've read on this topic recently), a very faint residue on the dish. i was slightly disappointed. the manufacture date of this batch was 1/17. the brand was Klean Strip.

i decided, out of curiosity, to do an evap test on some lab-reagent-grade Petroleum Ether i have from a chemical supply house. i have used it with great success, but i never did an evap test on it as my confidence level was high considering the nature of the chemical and its supplier.

i was surprised to see, once again, a very (VERY) faint residue on the dish. as i mentioned, i have used this PE several times with success and no ill-effects whatsoever.

ok...now to evap test everything i've got! out comes the Bestine (used in the past - no problems) i have left from before it was discontinued. yup. very faint residue.

Ronsonol (also used successfully) - very faint residue.

Zippo (black can) - HUGE residue. same as previous test - never used, never will.

i also have some lab-grade N-Heptane that i did not test as the bottle is still sealed. i have no doubt of its purity - but i suspect i might find a stain/residue as well.

so....this begs the question: is there a solvent that doesn't leave some, trace residue/stain/mark on said dish? and is a "stain/watermark-like ring the same as "residue"? further, is this trace residue something that makes it to the final product? harmful? as i've said - no ill effects from past extractions.

so, if the criteria for an evap test is that NOTHING is left behind - i mean not even a tiny trace/stain-ring...i'm afraid that even my pure, lab-grade solvents would not cut it.

i'd suspect that some of the air pollution we breathe every day, some of the preservatives we eat every day, etc....are probably more harmful than whatever tiny trace might be left after an evap/extraction. after all - how much of this trace residue could possibly show up in a 25-50mg dose? i don't know. opinions welcomed.

just wanted to share....

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Perhaps you also have a small detergent residue on your dish, if you've ever placed it in a dishwasher? Rinse aid would do this.

 

[concombres]

hey everyone

i've been following this thread and wanted to add some interesting experiential data...

i was out of state this past weekend and had occasion to visit a store where VM&P Naphtha was available; it is not available in the state where i live. i picked up a couple of quarts and brought it home eagerly.

first thing, of course, was an evap test. i use a small, black ceramic dish - very easy to see if there's any residue at all, as sometimes it's difficult to see with a white dish or glass. there was (not surprisingly after all i've read on this topic recently), a very faint residue on the dish. i was slightly disappointed. the manufacture date of this batch was 1/17. the brand was Klean Strip.

i decided, out of curiosity, to do an evap test on some lab-reagent-grade Petroleum Ether i have from a chemical supply house. i have used it with great success, but i never did an evap test on it as my confidence level was high considering the nature of the chemical and its supplier.

i was surprised to see, once again, a very (VERY) faint residue on the dish. as i mentioned, i have used this PE several times with success and no ill-effects whatsoever.

ok...now to evap test everything i've got! out comes the Bestine (used in the past - no problems) i have left from before it was discontinued. yup. very faint residue.

Ronsonol (also used successfully) - very faint residue.

Zippo (black can) - HUGE residue. same as previous test - never used, never will.

i also have some lab-grade N-Heptane that i did not test as the bottle is still sealed. i have no doubt of its purity - but i suspect i might find a stain/residue as well.

so....this begs the question: is there a solvent that doesn't leave some, trace residue/stain/mark on said dish? and is a "stain/watermark-like ring the same as "residue"? further, is this trace residue something that makes it to the final product? harmful? as i've said - no ill effects from past extractions.

so, if the criteria for an evap test is that NOTHING is left behind - i mean not even a tiny trace/stain-ring...i'm afraid that even my pure, lab-grade solvents would not cut it.

i'd suspect that some of the air pollution we breathe every day, some of the preservatives we eat every day, etc....are probably more harmful than whatever tiny trace might be left after an evap/extraction. after all - how much of this trace residue could possibly show up in a 25-50mg dose? i don't know. opinions welcomed.

just wanted to share....

I am having this same issue. No real greasy residue. Just very faint outline of the puddle of naphtha. On a pyrex dish you have to tilt the dish so the light hits it just right to see it.

I have been trying to test whether this is some detergent residue left on the glass from dish soap or something like DW mentioned by washing the glass with a microfiber rag, first pretreating with isopropyl then washing with a mix of vinegar water using a fresh microfiber rag. So far the faint residue has stayed even with a thouroughly washed dish.

Next thing i want to try is to use a clear plastic tote with the sides cut out & replaced with tyvek to place the dish in during evap to see if maybe there is some contamination from the moving air or dust from the room falling in the liquid.


I did also think it could be some millscale or grime from the metal can used to store it or possibly that some grease is drawn from the dish or air somehow also.

I will continue to test my solvents in as many ways as i can think of to see if this is something that is caused by an outside factor or can be removed somehow, but i doubt it. Note that even resi-analyzed ultrapure labratory solvents say 0.0001% residue or something along those lines.

 

[ducdevil]

concombres:

i know - about what you said: "Note that even resi-analyzed ultrapure labratory solvents say 0.0001% residue or something along those lines."

looking at the SDS for the KleanStrip product, for example, there is an element of vague that is hard to overlook:

Hydrotreated light naphtha 95.0 -100.0%

there's up to 5% of God-knows-what in there.

but you know, i was thinking: remember the days when we'd get weed from "a guy who knows a guy"....perhaps from Mexico or Colombia (yeah...i'm that old) and we'd smoke it without even giving a thought of what might have been sprayed on it, or what it had picked up along the way. it's called "acceptable risk" i guess.

i control what i can and do the best. at some point, things are out of my control. i strive for the most pure product within my control, knowing there are only so many factors i can influence.

i am not advocating, by any means, risky, unsafe or irresponsible behavior. i just think there is a threshold where we have to trust we've done all we can.

will i use the Klean Strip Naphtha? probably not. would it hurt me? same answer, i'd suspect.

that's what i can control.

 

[concombres]

concombres:

i know - about what you said: "Note that even resi-analyzed ultrapure labratory solvents say 0.0001% residue or something along those lines."

looking at the SDS for the KleanStrip product, for example, there is an element of vague that is hard to overlook:

Hydrotreated light naphtha 95.0 -100.0%

there's up to 5% of God-knows-what in there.

but you know, i was thinking: remember the days when we'd get weed from "a guy who knows a guy"....perhaps from Mexico or Colombia (yeah...i'm that old) and we'd smoke it without even giving a thought of what might have been sprayed on it, or what it had picked up along the way. it's called "acceptable risk" i guess.

i control what i can and do the best. at some point, things are out of my control. i strive for the most pure product within my control, knowing there are only so many factors i can influence.

i am not advocating, by any means, risky, unsafe or irresponsible behavior. i just think there is a threshold where we have to trust we've done all we can.

will i use the Klean Strip Naphtha? probably not. would it hurt me? same answer, i'd suspect.

that's what i can control.

Yeah i agree with you. There is always going to be some level of risk associated with drug use in any light. Hell, even the ACS grade solvents come with a "not for use with food or drug" warning & lets face it, there is no food grade hexane, xylene, pet ether, etc because it is not meant to be ingested.

It does drive me absolutely nuts not knowing & not having any way to know what exactly that nearly invisible residue is made up of, but then what can you really do?

 

[ducdevil]

concombres:

we do what we can.

there will always be others who suggest we do more, as they do or can. but we can only work within our means. there are some who are sloppy with their extractions, use plastic, buy crappy solvent and don't test....and even though their product could be so much better, it's probably not going to harm them terribly. and there are, on the other end of the spectrum, those who can afford to buy or have access to a mass spec machine and a full lab at their disposal. to those, i say bravo. but we all cannot rise to that level of expertise and resolution.

back in the day, and ugly days they were, i did a lot of coke. never did i test it. and never did i even think about what might be in it. stupid and addicted was i, but i survived, thank God. i was young then. i am wiser now.

the level of caution, preparation, education and finesse i try to employ with my extractions will serve me well, i trust.

we do what we can.