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Natural or synthetic psychedelics?

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69ron said:
polytrip said:
What i like most about plants, is that each plant has it's own character. When you take ayahuasca or shrooms, you never get exactly the same as before, while with synthetic stuff it's all more standardized.
That could be a sort of placebo-effect though, i must admit.
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Placebo partially, I'm sure, but most psychedelic plants do vary a lot in chemistry.

Take HBWR for example, when fresh they contain a lot of LSH and produce effects very similar to LSD, but overtime that LSH converts to LSA and acetaldehyde (which vaporizes away), forever changing the psychedelic effects of the seeds, making them more sedating and less psychedelic (or so goes the theory). Some HBWR are naturally high in LSH, while others are not. Some are high in other toxins as well.

With mushrooms, the levels of psilocin to psilocybin vary a lot by age and strain, the amount they were bruised, how they were handled, etc. Psilocin (XLogP3 = 2.1) absorbs faster than psilocybin and can cross the blood brain barrier easily while psilocybin (XLogP3= -1.6) can not easily cross the blood brain barrier because it’s highly water soluble. Psilocybin eventually converts to psilocin in the body and then can easily cross the blood brain barrier. But that conversion takes enough time that the difference in effects between psilocin and psilocybin are noticeable. This makes psilocybin produce more bodily side effects than psilocin and is why psilocin is said to be a cleaner experience. Also, some mushrooms contain various amounts of other psychoactive substances like baeocystin and norbaeocystin, which likely have their own impact on the experience.
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...don't you just love psychedelic chemistry :)
 
I really can't vote because "best" is such a subjective term and I have a lot of "bests" depending on the situation!

For a fun night of giggling - 2C-I
For a fun night of introspection and talking - low dose shrooms + 5-meo-mipt
Fun night around the campfire - mid dose shrooms or Achuma Extract
For a hedonistic night with the wife- 4-aco-mipt, bk-MDMA, MDMA, 5-meo-mipt (or some combination of these)

Some of my best experiences were natural psycadelics mixed with man made ones.
 
I've been curious about the leaves as well. I haven't seen any trip reports from their use though.

Do you know of any successful trip reports that used just the leaves? If so, how much?
 
acolon_5 said:
I really can't vote because "best" is such a subjective term and I have a lot of "bests" depending on the situation!

For a fun night of giggling - 2C-I
For a fun night of introspection and talking - low dose shrooms + 5-meo-mipt
Fun night around the campfire - mid dose shrooms or Achuma Extract
For a hedonistic night with the wife- 4-aco-mipt, bk-MDMA, MDMA, 5-meo-mipt (or some combination of these)

Some of my best experiences were natural psycadelics mixed with man made ones.
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As far as aphrodisiacs go, for SWIM, a very low dose of mescaline is the best ever.

It would be interesting if someone could make a compound with the same effects as LSD, but with a duration of just a few hours. That would be something. LSD just lasts way too long. Mescaline has the same problem. A whole day is needed to experience those psychedelics.
 
polytrip said:
In some LSA plants, the leaves contain lysergics as well, although i don't know if this is also the case with HBWR. Morning glory leaves do not contain toxins.
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Chewing a largish quid of I.violecea leaves produced a definite and 'speedy' buzz in myself that lasted around 6 hours, 3 of stimulation and some sedation/depression as it tailed off. A threshold dose I guess.
 
I believe, could just be a widely believed myth though, that the actives are heat sensitive. Traditional usage of Rivea seeds was by CWE prepared by a virgin.
 
It’s partially a myth. Boiling for a few hours does destroy most of the alkaloids, but boiling for about 5 minutes has little effect. Brewing tea using hot water definitely doesn’t destroy the alkaloids.

The cold water extraction helps to avoid extraction of some of the toxins present which are poorly soluble in cold water but quite soluble in hot water.

SWIM has pure LSA crystals and has played around with them to see if boiling water destroys them. It does after a while, that’s for sure. A pot of boiling hot water poured over LSA, melts it really fast, but doesn’t destroy it. It needs to be boiling for quite a while before the LSA starts breaking down.

LSH is unstable though and easily breaks down into LSA and acetaldehyde. SWIM hasn’t done experiments with LSH because he can’t isolate it and accurately identify it.
 
69ron said:
acolon_5 said:
I really can't vote because "best" is such a subjective term and I have a lot of "bests" depending on the situation!

For a fun night of giggling - 2C-I
For a fun night of introspection and talking - low dose shrooms + 5-meo-mipt
Fun night around the campfire - mid dose shrooms or Achuma Extract
For a hedonistic night with the wife- 4-aco-mipt, bk-MDMA, MDMA, 5-meo-mipt (or some combination of these)

Some of my best experiences were natural psycadelics mixed with man made ones.
Click to expand...

As far as aphrodisiacs go, for SWIM, a very low dose of mescaline is the best ever.

It would be interesting if someone could make a compound with the same effects as LSD, but with a duration of just a few hours. That would be something. LSD just lasts way too long. Mescaline has the same problem. A whole day is needed to experience those psychedelics.
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Really? I may have to try that...we've only experimented with mid-high range doses, and both of us became bascially numb and intimacy was possible, but pointless.
 
For SWIM 100-150 mg of mescaline HCl is definitely great as an aphrodisiac. I’m not talking about cactus here. Some cacti have other alkaloids with sedative effects that interfere with mescaline’s aphrodisiac effects.
 
SWIM feels that the major concerns here are firstly economical: availability, cost, and time; of which, plants tend to have the advantage. Secondly would be health concerns: purity (whether chemical or plant-based, as both can be just as harmful) and the reliability of the data regarding the compound itself. In the case of the compounds themselves, plant-based entheogens tend to have a clear advantage, as they usually have long and well-documented histories of use with few exceptions. Other than that, apart from potentially beneficial impurities found in some plant-based entheogens, there really isn't a difference apart from various placebo factors which--despite their incredibly subjective nature--mustn't be taken for granted.

Quality synthetics do have a huge advantage in terms of prestige and scarcity, and are occasionally popularized for some very good reasons. Overall, they each have their advantages for SWIM, as he pays little credence to the nature-worship--all entheogens are natural. There is no inherent advantage to naturally occuring substances, unless one has some sense of a higher power.
 
Poll results as Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:47:46 AM PST:

Code: 
Choice                                              Votes  Statistics  
Plants or tea (shrooms, ayahuasca, peyote, etc.)    7      36 % 
Purified extracts (psilocin, DMT, mescaline, etc.)  7      36 % 
Doesn't matter                                      4      21 %
Natural but synthesized (psilocin, DMT, etc.)       1       5 % 
Man made unnatural drugs (LSD, 2C-I, DOI, etc.)     0       0 %
 
So far it looks like people are choosing to go natural.

"Plants or tea" and "Purified extracts" are ahead of everything else and they are in a tie.

"Man made unnatural drugs" has received no votes. Interesting. No one thinks LSD is best?
 
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