Need advice from exp. users on oral MHRB + RUE breakthrough dosage

[Matoskah]

Hello travelers,

I've searched through the FAQ and other sites and beyond the aya house link and some erowid sources I've been let down in my search on the sweet spot mhrb - rue dosage.

Last time I embarked on a 10g mhrb - 4g rue experience and it was fantastic; the rue worked like a charm. I did however undershot my goals; I generally want a breakthrough dose regardless of setting.

Does anyone on here know if a 15g mhrb - 4g rue dose is the right dosage to get me there?

My last attempt was at 13g but I only managed to stomach roughly 10g of mhrb; this time I'll fix my mistake and reduce the brew further to allow it to be downed in one gulp.

Advice and information is very much appreciated!

UPDATE 2020-04-01: In retrospect I've now found a disclaimer to be in order due to the very high dosages being discussed in this topic.

These dosages far exceed what's generally considered to be a "high dosage" and should as such be treated with utmost care, respect and subjectivity to one's own tolerance.

I have a long history (12 years) of unusually high dosages with all substances and whether it's because of a high tolerance or liking of the extremes these dosages are in no way recommended. Even half of the dosage that I'm taking is considered to be in the high end of things.

 

[Eaglepath]

Ive only tried this combo once..10g MHRB With 350mg of Harmala from Syrian rue. I agreed it should have been 15g so do that and report back

 

[Sabnock1990]

Try roasting the whole Rue seed in the oven at 350 degrees f for about 19 minutes, though if roasting just one dose of Rue, check it every few minutes to make sure it's not burning, as i've never roasted just one dose of Rue, usually i roast as much seed as will cover the pan, and when the seed is roasted, grind it up in a coffee grinder and encapsulate 4 grams of the roasted seed powder (taking into account to tare the scale with the capsule weight so you get accurate dosage of 4 grams of Rue), and consume the Rue capsules about 30 minutes to an hour prior to consuming the Mimosa tea. Also adjust the dosage of Mimosa to about 5 grams, 8 grams max, and see how that goes before increasing the dosage of Mimosa. Reason being, with properly inhibited MAO-A and proper timing between the Rue/Harmalas and the DMT (so that gut MAO-A is fully inhibited so that when DMT is consumed it's fully orally activated), the DMT/Mimosa will probably be a lot more powerful than you'd think for the dosage. Get the MAO-A inhibition factor right and get the timing between the plants right, first, and then adjust the DMT dosage. This works a lot better than using an all in one brew. Alternatively you can use full spectrum freebased Rue extract in a capsule, or purified Harmala freebase or hcl extract in a capsule, instead of consuming the roasted Rue seed powder. You can also just ingest the raw Rue seed powder in capsules, but roasted seed powder seems to provide less nausea/gut discomfort compared to raw Rue seed powder, ime.

 

[King Tryptamine]

IME ~ 4.5g of root bark drunk 25 minutes after 2.6g of rue tea has always resulted in a very intense but pleasant and colorful experience that was more than enough to completely knock my socks off to the 5th dimension. With this I can't say I've ever thrown up either in turn absorbing all those lovely indoleamines, that's not to say I've never felt a little queasy but having a puke bag near by is something I no longer bother with or think about anymore.

I do feel that 15g let alone 10g is excessive and wasteful especially if it's being regurgitated before most of it is absorbed. The same goes for 4g of rue depending on the seeds potency this is more than enough for full MAO-A inhibition and would 100% make me vomit out my precious DMT tea.

 

[bismillah]

Donnnn't eat rue. I used to, but now I learned that tea is infinitely better. For your body and for the experience (far fewer toxins if you boil unground seeds).

13-15 g is a looot of mimosa if your rue is actually doing its job. For me I'd guess 4g rue tea plus 8g mimosa tea would be plenty.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Donnnn't eat rue. I used to, but now I learned that tea is infinitely better. For your body and for the experience (far fewer toxins if you boil unground seeds).

13-15 g is a looot of mimosa if your rue is actually doing its job. For me I'd guess 4g rue tea plus 8g mimosa tea would be plenty.

Rue doesn't contain toxins, the "toxins" people are concerned about are not toxic, they actually have some benefits to contribute to the overall medicine/experience, but simply shouldn't be consumed by pregnant women. As for consuming Rue seed, i prefer consuming the seed powder over full spectrum freebased Rue extract or purified Harmala freebased or hcl extract, as the seed is more full spectrum than the extracts, however, the full spectrum freebased extract in a capsule would be my second choice, and the purified Harmala freebased or hcl extract would be my third choice. As for drinking a Rue tea, i've tried drinking Rue a few times, but ehhh, i for one much prefer not to taste it, so i use capsules, always have, even tried drinking some extract teas a few times, pretty bitter stuff, much prefer capsules. Using roasted Rue seed powder in capsules, by far is a lot better ime than using raw Rue seed powder in capsules, i can understand your reasoning behind not wanting to consume raw Rue seed powder, been there myself lol, many times lol, but ever since i switched to roasted seed, i've had no complaints personally. Have you tried consuming roasted Rue seed powder capsules or just raw Rue seed powder capsules? There is a difference.

 

[Sabnock1990]

The main reason that i recommend consuming the Rue seed powder in capsules though vs drinking tea, taste aside, is that capsules seem to be more efficient than teas, teas are harder to time properly apparently, capsules have never done me wrong and always fully activated the DMT, every time. I hear of more people having issues activating the DMT properly when using Rue/Caapi/Harmalas in tea form, than i do from them using capsules. But one can use the extracts in capsules rather than the Rue seed, but they do miss out on some of the full spectrum goodies. The timing for capsules vs teas seems different ime and from what i've seen through research.

 

[King Tryptamine]

The main reason that i recommend consuming the Rue seed powder in capsules though vs drinking tea, taste aside, is that capsules seem to be more efficient than teas, teas are harder to time properly apparently, capsules have never done me wrong and always fully activated the DMT, every time. I hear of more people having issues activating the DMT properly when using Rue/Caapi/Harmalas in tea form, than i do from them using capsules. But one can use the extracts in capsules rather than the Rue seed, but they do miss out on some of the full spectrum goodies. The timing for capsules vs teas seems different ime and from what i've seen through research.

Hey SS, how would the nausea from roasted seeds compare in comparison to rue tea? Just curious since I'm getting a little fed up with the taste of rue tea (minor problem I know) right now but too lazy to run an extraction.

 

[Matoskah]

Ive only tried this combo once..10g MHRB With 350mg of Harmala from Syrian rue. I agreed it should have been 15g so do that and report back

How strong would you rate that experience? Not sure on the fly how much 350mg harmalas are in raw weight.

capsules seem to be more efficient than teas

That has not been a problem for me; it also worked great last time. I'm not sure I like the idea of swallowing capsules instead of using my traditional aya cups :thumb_up:

IME ~ 4.5g of root bark drunk 25 minutes after 2.6g of rue tea has always resulted in a very intense but pleasant and colorful experience that was more than enough to completely knock my socks off to the 5th dimension.

Has this been the case even in a bright light room; we're talking specifically about breakthrough doses. Considering 4.5 mhrb would IME just hit the breakthrough dose for a smoalked method I doubt that it'd be enough for me; especially since my last 10g MHRB dose with 4g rue wasn't enough.

I do feel that 15g let alone 10g is excessive and wasteful especially if it's being regurgitated before most of it is absorbed

I'm not sure how much of a difference 2 grams would do around 10 so my bet is at the moment 15g

 

[Matoskah]

Hey SS, how would the nausea from roasted seeds compare in comparison to rue tea? Just curious since I'm getting a little fed up with the taste of rue tea (minor problem I know) right now but too lazy to run an extraction.

I just chase the rue with milk. It literally removes any taste what so ever; just make sure you're pinching that nose during :thumb_up:

 

[bismillah]

The tea is a little unpredictable, I admit, but you'll know when you're ready for the spice anyways.
As for the taste, I find tea *almost* enjoyable, as long as I plug my nose, and certainly a step above parachuting the seeds (don't have gel caps).
Maybe not toxic per se, but something in those seeds gives me a fever when I eat them whole.

 

[Sabnock1990]

The main reason that i recommend consuming the Rue seed powder in capsules though vs drinking tea, taste aside, is that capsules seem to be more efficient than teas, teas are harder to time properly apparently, capsules have never done me wrong and always fully activated the DMT, every time. I hear of more people having issues activating the DMT properly when using Rue/Caapi/Harmalas in tea form, than i do from them using capsules. But one can use the extracts in capsules rather than the Rue seed, but they do miss out on some of the full spectrum goodies. The timing for capsules vs teas seems different ime and from what i've seen through research.

Hey SS, how would the nausea from roasted seeds compare in comparison to rue tea? Just curious since I'm getting a little fed up with the taste of rue tea (minor problem I know) right now but too lazy to run an extraction.

I'm not sure how the nausea would compare, i've never been able to drink down a full dosage of seed tea or extract tea, i don't like the bitterness/taste. But i will say, with roasted seed powder, i haven't noticed any nausea, and several people i've recommended to try the roasted seed, have also reported no nausea. You can still roast the seeds though before you make a tea, see if that reduces any nausea for you or may even change the taste to make things a little more palatable.

 

[Sabnock1990]

capsules seem to be more efficient than teas

That has not been a problem for me; it also worked great last time. I'm not sure I like the idea of swallowing capsules instead of using my traditional aya cups :thumb_up:

Capsules seem easier to consume than drinking a nasty tea, so idk. I use 00 sized capsules, and pack the seed powder in there pretty tightly, so for 4.4 grams of the roasted seed powder, it only requires me to take 4 capsules, depending on how well you pack in the powder, it could be 4 to 6 capsules, but still better and less disgusting than drinking a tea imo. I mean, i like the idea of a tea, if there were a way to make things more palatable, but at the same time, i do find capsules to be more efficient from what i've read about it. It's actually quite common for Aya all in one teas, for example, to be hit or miss, a lot of people report that they didn't get much from Aya (in terms of the DMT content) even drinking multiple doses a few days in a row while others were blasted off from one dose of tea. I've personally never had the capsule method fail, it's always worked even right from the get go and has always been properly fully activated and worked like a charm.

If anything, i like and prefer the thought of taking some Rue seed powder capsules or a Rue/Harmala extract capsule and then 30 minutes to an hour later drinking a Mimosa or Acacia tea dose.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Hey SS, how would the nausea from roasted seeds compare in comparison to rue tea? Just curious since I'm getting a little fed up with the taste of rue tea (minor problem I know) right now but too lazy to run an extraction.

I just chase the rue with milk. It literally removes any taste what so ever; just make sure you're pinching that nose during :thumb_up:

I've thought about that, i should try that some time, i've even thought about adding milk to the Rue seed tea, along with some sugar, and trying to drink it while hot/warm, it may be more palatable then, i know doing the Mimosa/Acacia tea that way sure helps compared to not doing that.

 

[Sabnock1990]

The tea is a little unpredictable, I admit, but you'll know when you're ready for the spice anyways.
As for the taste, I find tea *almost* enjoyable, as long as I plug my nose, and certainly a step above parachuting the seeds (don't have gel caps).
Maybe not toxic per se, but something in those seeds gives me a fever when I eat them whole.

Are you talking about getting that cold feeling, like the chills or overall just feeling colder? I tend to get that from seed and extract, i think it may have something to do with the anti-bacterial properties of the Harmalas, maybe. Though i do find that adding a little Caffeine to the mix can help me feel warmer as things are kicking in. There's also a possibility that Harmalas have blood sugar lowering properties, and as such may cause some symptoms similar to low blood sugar, of which, can cause some fever-like symptoms iirc, so it may help to have some sugar in the 2nd or 3rd hour of the Rue/Harmalas, ime. Harmalas can also cause lowered blood pressure, which also shares some symptoms similar to fever.

 

[Matoskah]

It's actually quite common for Aya all in one teas, for example, to be hit or miss, a lot of people report that they didn't get much from Aya (in terms of the DMT content) even drinking multiple doses a few days in a row while others were blasted off from one dose of tea.

I did that the first few times I experimented with aya but it didn't work well at all; I usually got little to no effect. When I first tried rue 20 ish minutes before it made all the difference.

I think that one of the most important factors is to have a empty stomach and the body "running" so to speak. If you've been sitting still or you're on a full belly it can take too long for the dmt to get in.

 

[Matoskah]

Caffeine to the mix can help me feel warmer as things are kicking in. There's also a possibility that Harmalas have blood sugar lowering properties, and as such may cause some symptoms similar to low blood sugar, of which, can cause some fever-like symptoms iirc, so it may help to have some sugar in the 2nd or 3rd hour of the Rue/Harmalas, ime. Harmalas can also cause lowered blood pressure, which also shares some symptoms similar to fever.

Caffeine and harmalas can have some really adverse reactions when mixed: Known substance-interactions and their effects - DMT-Nexus Wiki

So I'd be careful with such a combo; in retrospect from my last aya experience I got some "bonus product" with leaves containing caffeine and I drank it as a tea the day before my aya not thinking much about it. Now in my report I state that I suspected the chili con carne but after researching more carefully I now suspect it might've been the caffeine giving me that horrendous migraine.

 

[Sabnock1990]

It's actually quite common for Aya all in one teas, for example, to be hit or miss, a lot of people report that they didn't get much from Aya (in terms of the DMT content) even drinking multiple doses a few days in a row while others were blasted off from one dose of tea.

I did that the first few times I experimented with aya but it didn't work well at all; I usually got little to no effect. When I first tried rue 20 ish minutes before it made all the difference.

I think that one of the most important factors is to have a empty stomach and the body "running" so to speak. If you've been sitting still or you're on a full belly it can take too long for the dmt to get in.

Yup, agreed.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Caffeine to the mix can help me feel warmer as things are kicking in. There's also a possibility that Harmalas have blood sugar lowering properties, and as such may cause some symptoms similar to low blood sugar, of which, can cause some fever-like symptoms iirc, so it may help to have some sugar in the 2nd or 3rd hour of the Rue/Harmalas, ime. Harmalas can also cause lowered blood pressure, which also shares some symptoms similar to fever.

Caffeine and harmalas can have some really adverse reactions when mixed: Known substance-interactions and their effects - DMT-Nexus Wiki

So I'd be careful with such a combo; in retrospect from my last aya experience I got some "bonus product" with leaves containing caffeine and I drank it as a tea the day before my aya not thinking much about it. Now in my report I state that I suspected the chili con carne but after researching more carefully I now suspect it might've been the caffeine giving me that horrendous migraine.

Yeah you do have to be careful with the Caffeine, primarily because Caffeine is metabolized by CYP1A2 (a liver enzyme, which just so happens to also be inhibited by Harmalas), so when CYP1A2 is inhibited by Harmalas, a little bit of Caffeine can go a long way, too much Caffeine and you can definitely get some Caffeine-related adverse reactions, but as far as a little bit of Caffeine with Harmalas goes, no real negative interactions there, only negative interaction would be Caffeine's dosage potentiation. I drank Caffeinated soda pretty much all throughout my 4 year daily/near daily Aya experimentation, i'm pretty sure it increased the jitters and anxiety and energy and brought out some OCD-like speediness and such, never had a migraine from it that i could tell, but likely contributed to some of the hectic times i've experienced lol, aside from the potentiation of DMT's intensity due to the Cannabis i also used. But yeah a little bit of Caffeine can be quite nice with the Aya, but a lot of Caffeine not so much, what seems like a normal amount of Caffeine by itself (or in Coffee or tea), can often be too much with that CYP1A2 inhibition, i remember a few sips of soda feeling more like 3 cups or so of Coffee on quite a few occasions, so yes, take it easy on the Caffeine lol, but as i said, a little bit of Caffeine can be quite nice.

 

[endlessness]

10g or more of mimosa is an extremely high amount for most people. I suggest being very careful. For most people under 5g will be plenty already. You are risking a very significant ass kicking.

There are variables to be taken into account, such as your method of brewing (please describe exactly, including whether plant material was powdered, shredded or whole rue seeds/large mimosa pieces, how many times you boiled etc), MAO expression polymorphism (genetic variation affecting whether you have a lot of MAO in your body or not), potency of plant material, among others.

If you take only the rue in that dosage, what effects do you get?

How long did your experience last?

Also, me personally I prefer not to take it with empty stomach, I find that eating a little bit just after drinking the brew will stimulate digestion and make it come on faster/stronger.