New to Cacti

[Jorkest]

my biggest issue with this thread is that we are arguing the difference and qualities between a cactus..and a CACTUS!!

when SWIM peeled his cactus...and meticulously cut off the white parts from the green parts..he thought he was getting rid of the nauseous part of the cactus....BOY WAS HE WRONG...it put him in his bed..and made him to never want to try cactus again...ever...it made him feel that awful...now..

he takes the same cactus..and extracts it with ALL NATURAL chemicals..with a VERY easy process..and comes up with a perfectly reliable chemical extract...and YES its great for parties..because SWIM has lots of friends..and he doesnt go out that much..and he just to happened to try his mescaline extract..and went to a party..and had a wonderful time..

and SWIM would have to say..it was HARDER to peel the cactus..than to extract the mescaline from it...

seriously Coatl..peeling a cactus is actually HARDER than doing this new d-limonene extract..if you had tried to do it..you would know..so SWIM just doesnt understand how you can advocate just eating a cactus..when its prone to cause extreme nausea over a perfectly EASY and SAFE extract..

oh yes..lets all get to know the cactus by puking it out..sounds fucking wonderful

 

['Coatl]

I've never had any problem with nausea, nor has anybody I know when I prepared cactus.

I highly doubt any extraction would be easier than peeling (for me at least).

he takes the same cactus..and extracts it with ALL NATURAL chemicals..

It's certainly not as natural as eating that cactus, not the 69ron didn't do an awesome job.

oh yes..lets all get to know the cactus by puking it out..sounds fucking wonderful

I guess some like to take it the easy way...

 

[Jorkest]

but you say extracting is more difficult than just peeling....i doubt you have done much experimenting with anything that is talked about on this board...if you had..you would be tired of puking as well...

and you know..SWIM has puked plenty from plenty of things..hes figured out how to go without that TROUBLESOME quality to these AMAZING substances...

Coatl..you have brought a lot to this board...but im am bored of your attitude toward extractions..you advocate eating a cactus..SWIM has done that...and he NEVER wants to do it again..why would you advocate something that most likely will make somebody vomit..its bad for you teeth!

 

['Coatl]

but you say extracting is more difficult than just peeling....i doubt you have done much experimenting with anything that is talked about on this board...if you had..you would be tired of puking as well...

Hahahaha... who told YOU how to peel cactus?

and you know..SWIM has puked plenty from plenty of things..hes figured out how to go without that TROUBLESOME quality to these AMAZING substances...

As I said... some like the easy way...

 

[Jorkest]

i dont like you

 

['Coatl]

Thats all fine and good but we don't need to make a big fuss about it now do we?

It's ok if we have differing views... none are wrong or right... it is not black and white... no day and night... only shades of dawn and twilight.

 

[Jorkest]

fuck it..you are..you keep advocating eating a cactus..when experience tells us..that the experience from eating cactus is riddled with nausea..that to me is a BAD quality...if you want to puke..learn to stick your finger down your throat

 

['Coatl]

Like I said... nobody I know pukes from cacti that is used.

 

[69ron]

You two are both right. You will have to agree to disagree.

SWIM has eaten San Pedro raw many times in the past and tripped without getting the slightest bit of nausea. So I agree with Coatl there. Some people never get nausea from San Pedro.

Peyote is more prone to producing nausea in sensitive people than San Pedro is. Some people also do not get nausea from Peyote. Some people actually enjoy chewing Peyote buttons. It's like wine, you can acquire a taste for it.

It's all about person taste and personal body chemistry. SWIM doesn't really like eating such a large amount of cactus, but the main reason he prefers an extract is that the dose can be accurately measured out. For SWIM, the effects of the cactus are the same as the effects of the vinegar/orange oil extract. Neither one causes him nausea. However, that's not the case for some other people. Some people get nausea from the cactus only, and others get nausea from both.

Pure mescaline also causes nausea in some people. SWIM doesn't get nausea from pure mescaline.

To really make a mess of things, SOME people get MORE nausea from pure mescaline than from the cactus! It's all about personal body chemistry. It all depends on what in the cactus makes you nauseated. There are many alkaloids present. You could be sensitive to any one of them. If you're not sensitive to mescaline, then a pure mescaline extract would be the best for you, but if you're sensitive to mescaline, then a full alkaloid extract or the raw cactus might be a better experience.

The San Pedro cactus contains quite a bit of alkaloids. SWIM has separated the mescaline from the other alkaloids and found that the non-mescaline alkaloids are psychedelic and have other effects as well. One of them is sedating, one makes you feel numb, one is visual, etc., so anyone of those could be causing nausea or not. Heck, it could be the plant fibers causing nausea in some people, in which case an extract might not.

Everyone is different.

Coatl, I do have to side with Jorkest in that making a vinegar/orange oil extract is really easy. I'm not exaggerating here. I'm a cook. I make breads, cakes, pizzas, you name it, I can make it from scratch without a recipe. The work going into making bread is far more than the work going into extracting mescaline from cactus using vinegar and orange oil. You mix dry ground cactus with water and lime, then you mix in orange oil, you pour off the orange oil through a coffee filter. You mix vinegar with the orange oil. Then use a gravy separator to remove the vinegar from the oil. Then you evaporate the vinegar and you are done. It's very easy. Mix, pour off and filter, mix, separate, and evaporate. That's 5 easy steps. It's so simple.

Compare that to baking bread where you mix the dry ingredients, add oil, water, knead the dough, let it rise, knead it again, let it rise again, put it in the oven, watch it periodically to make sure it cooks just right, when it just starts getting a little brown it's done. When making bread you need to time everything. You can't let it rise too long or you ruin the bread, if you don't let it rise enough you ruin the bread, if you cook it too long you ruin the bread, etc. It's much more complicated than extracting mescaline.

 

['Coatl]

You two are both right. You will have to agree to disagree.

I agree!

To really make a mess of things, SOME people get MORE nausea from pure mescaline than from the cactus!

That's true and I'm glad you brought it up. I figured if I said it people would think I was full of shit.

Coatl, I do have to side with Jorkest in that making a vinegar/orange oil extract is really easy.

I never disagreed with that. Good job on making such an awesome, natural extract 69ron.

 

[Phlux-]

iv tried eating cactus and it was the worst - perhaps if ur lucky ul get a cactus that wont cause much nausea but basically everyone iv ever spoken too agrees - that is the absolute worst way to consume cactus ever.
for swim there are 2 routes that are viable.

make the tea - let the solids drop out - add jelly powder - make a nice mold and set a greengaje peruvian torch jelly
or extract with d-limonene

im preddy much in 1000000% aggreement with jorkest.

kids - dont eat cactus - 90% of the time it will make u sick. dont be lazy, the extraction really is easier than peeling the cactus. swims peeled many kilos of cactus.

 

[Infinite I]

Swim agrees cactus is the worst tasting thing hes ever tried. And at the small dose swim tried it made him naseous. Is it true that indians say that if you cant handle the taste then you shouldnt be doing it? A friend told swim that.

Swim is definately going to try the mescaline tech sounds amazing, and easy, just have to get some d-limonene here in the UK, which is a pain.

 

[Jorkest]

yes Infinite I...ive heard that about eating it as well..thats why when SWIM first did cactus a few times he ate the chips..and he really chewed them up and got the flavor all in his mouth...he ate chips this way for about 15 minutes..and its ALMOST good tasting...its so close to tasting good that it tastes awful..FOR SWIM..he felt like to introduce himself to cactus he should eat some before ever doing an extract..so in that way Coatl is right..

i suppose it is a good idea to first eat the cactus before ever doing an extraction..get yourself a reason to extract but the taste was just probably the worst thing hes ever tasted next to nasty old mushrooms..

other times SWIM tried the snot soup way..with lemon juice..it was gross..to the point of not being able to drink it..


so while SWIM does agree that eating cactus is a great place to start..but once you have connected yourself with it through eating..try this extract...its so wonderfully easy to make..its safe..and then you can tailor your experience much more reliably..because you will be able to accurately measure your dose

sorry Coatl for being a jerk last night...SWIM had just walked about 6 miles...on this extract and his friend had given him a few shots of some whiskey for the cold walk..so he was a bit short with his replies because whiskey makes him kinda mean..sorry for that

 

['Coatl]

It's cool.

thats why when SWIM first did cactus a few times he ate the chips..and he really chewed them up and got the flavor all in his mouth...he ate chips this way for about 15 minutes.

Dude THATS why you had nausea! The taste is HORRIBLE! No way could I chew that shit up! I grind it up in a coffee grinder than split my dose into two halfs and take each 45m apart.

 

[Phlux-]

i dont recon ppl should eat the actual cactus first - its not even traditionally eaten - except peyote.
the traditional prep is a tea - so why not go with that.

check - Erowid Cacti Vault : San Pedro Preparation 1

 

[Jorkest]

oh man...the tea is worse than eating the cactus chips...BLAHHH!

 

[Phlux-]

not if u allow the solids to settle then add jelly powder and set it. very managable.

 

[Jorkest]

ahhh...SWIM will stick to the extract he thinks

 

['Coatl]

the traditional prep is a tea - so why not go with that.

If you make the tea without peeling and drying first it is by far the absolute most disgusting thing you could ever drink! It's like pure snot!!! However... if you peel and dry your chips first then it comes out with the constancy of water (which is what you want). Try it if you don't believe me.

You gotta have some balls to do the real deal.

 

[Phlux-]

iv made tea with both and noticed only one thing - the tea made from fresh cactus was much stronger and came on faster - other alkys lost in drying ? idk.
when making the tea from fresh cactus one must be sure to let it just come to the boil in the beggining - at that time it foams up, then the foam goes away and the tea is the same as if made from dried cactus. Freezing and thawing the fresh cactus minimizes this foam situation somewhat.
check here is just a sample batch - was experimenting - no where near enough cactus for a dose. playing with mesc extraction so far 102mg mixed alkaloids have come out of the 186g fresh cactus so far - swims spidey senses tell him a lot more is still to come out.

the frozen cactus

after being blended with some water

no pix were taken while it was foaming during the initial stage - but an eye must be kept on it until this stage is over or else it will overflow the sides of the pot.
This is just after the foam had settled - it takes about 5 mins for the foam stage to complete. u know ur doing it right if the tea is smiling back at u

after reducing a bit more

that was placed in the fridge where it became almost clear - the sediment at the bottom was discarded and the tea was made basic with lye then xylene pulls were salted with dilute hcl to yeild the contents (102mg so far) of the jar on the left, this has not been washed yet and is still whiter than the other extractions

the other 2 jars are from an extraction on ground dried cactus and has been washed with acetone twice.