Potentially deadly! Nightshades

[dithyramb]

Another data point...

First of all I have never been a fan of microdosing, i.e. taking a plant in a very small dose and going on with daily life, without marking sacred time/space. But datura stramonium somehow feels resonant to be used in this way. Still, ingesting on an empty stomach is a requisite. Without adequate time after the last meal, it becomes very inefficient and practically wasted. Especially eating meat on the same day nulls the experience.

 

[dithyramb]

Stramonium seed season is beginning over here. As is usual for all plants, the fresh seeds are worlds apart from stored seeds. Such sublime healing...

I hope to commence my Mandragora explorations this Fall-Spring. I am pretty sure the seeds are active even though there is no info on it. Hopefully I will confirm and report. Seeds are often the actual part to be used, rather than the root, in my experience with plants. Not just for the sake of sustainability. Rue root has alkaloids but is pretty inert in experience. I tried Mandragora flowers once and it was much preferable to root, imv.

 

[Transform]

I found a nice thornapple along an ancient alleyway recently, after it practically commanded me to go along there and have a look. Seems like it may have been a monastic garden escape, perhaps. Needless to say, a few seeds somehow ended up in my pocket.

Possibly noteworthy is that the plant(s) were situated in a much larger clump of black nightshade, Solanum nigrum.

 

[dithyramb]

Thanks for the beautiful photos! I see the Solanum, and I also see mallows, which I didn't know can grow in this season.

Solanum nigrum is very common around here. There are sources indicating it's psychoactivity. All I know is that the ripe fruit has been non toxic and tasty for me.

 

[Transform]

The leaves on the left are a young maple or sycamore (Acer sp.), with a sow thistle (Sonchus sp.) poking out of the middle. I've drunk raw Solanum nigrum plant juice after misidentifying before its flowering time. There were no noticeable psychoactive effects for me, instead it really helped clear up a nasty skin problem for a while. However, my girlfriend felt really dizzy and had to lie down for the remainder of the day - a stark illustration of the different ways that a plant can affect different people.

I've subsequently used a homeopathic preparation of a close relative of this plant (dulcamara) to clear up a chronic skin condition in the long term.

Do you have any more specific information about the effects of solanum spp.? There's a large psychological element to some chronic skin conditions, as recently discussed in another thread.

 

[dithyramb]

@Transform, In your first pic on the bottom right corner is solanum, and on its left is mallow.

I only vaguely remember a reference on Solanum suggesting that it gives "sexual dreams." Apparently it was used traditionally for magical purposes. Unripe fruit has 1.6% alkaloids whereas ripe fruit has none according to a source. So ripe fruit is food, and unripe fruit is possibly medicine. Your skin anecdotes are very interesting! BTW mallow would likely be an effective skin soother when used topically.

 

[Transform]

I've spied the mallow now that you've pointed it out It might require a closer look to eliminate young hollyhock or even an Alchemilla species, except I have both of those in my garden and the plants in the picture are an hour's drive away.

 

[doubledog]

When I used to use datura stramonium as a inebriant, I noticed very strange phenomenon: it made my skin very soft, it was like a baby skin. Firstly, I thought that it was just an tropane hallucinations (or at least effect of changed vision due to dilated pupils and different shape of the eye) and not real, but it was confirmed by another, sober, person.

 

[dithyramb]

Mandragora autumnalis is in flower where I live, and I have started to explore the flowers. They are definitely more workable than leaves, feeling like an intelligent spirit is in it vs leaves feeling more narcotic with no direction. But still the leaves don't carry a dark energy like I found in Datura stramonium leaves (the stramonium flowers to me were pure light though). The autumnalis spirit feels more gentle and loving compared to datura. İn my first very tiny dose flowers experiment, it even thoroughly but gently purged me from the intestines and through burping, and gave no side effects. As those who are familiar with nightshades may know, when side effects kick in, the entire gastrointestinal system feels completely blocked, which prevents any kind of purging. Mandrake has a characteristic vibe of mystery and depths which was not there in datura for me.

 

[dithyramb]

Forgot to post the photos :⁠-⁠)

İn the third photo it is next to Salvia verbenaca, a species of sage which I had confused with mandrake a few years ago and upon drinking it, I experienced a very strong psychedelic effect which made me not question it's identification for some time - what luck for a species that is not known to be psychoactive at all.

 

[Transform]

İn the third photo it is next to Salvia verbenaca, a species of sage which I had confused with mandrake a few years ago and upon drinking it, I experienced a very strong psychedelic effect which made me not question it's identification for some time - what luck for a species that is not known to be psychoactive at all.

How do you know that you didn't have a mixture of the two? Have you confirmed the activity of S. verbenaca after positive identification of specimens?

 

[dithyramb]

I know because 1) I found out mandrake does not grow in that region (it was a different location than where I took the above pictures), 2) yes I confirmed the discovery of activity a few times over with this sage species 3) the effect is in fact quite distinct from mandrake or any tropane containing plant.

 

[Transform]

I know because 1) I found out mandrake does not grow in that region (it was a different location than where I took the above pictures), 2) yes I confirmed the discovery of activity a few times over with this sage species 3) the effect is in fact quite distinct from mandrake or any tropane containing plant.

Thanks!
Could you summarise how the effects were so distinct?

(The term 'abietane' drifts through my consciousness wrt this - that's a specific group of structures within the diterpenoids.)

Aromatic abietane diterpenoids: their biological activity and synthesis | 10.1039/C4NP00110A-Sci_hub

www.wellesu.com

- probably a red herring here...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237023794_Bioactive_Diterpenoids_of_Salvia_Species

Diterpenes and sterols from the roots ofSalvia verbenacasubsp.clandestina | 10.1007/s10600-009-9204-6-Sci_hub

www.wellesu.com

Uncommon Terpenoids from Salvia Species: Chemistry, Biosynthesis and Biological Activities - PMC

The search for new bioactive compounds from plant sources has been and continues to be one of the most important fields of research in drug discovery. However, Natural Products research has continuously evolved, and more and more has gained a ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Salvia verbenaca, Wild Clary: identification, distribution, habitat

[Further discussion of this tangent should probably go in a sage-oriented thread.]

 

[dithyramb]

A discussion on sages beyond ones with salvinorin a would be very nice indeed. I had read an article years ago mentioning the existence of many psychedelic sages, and that salvinorin a is not the only goodie (diterpene) that Salvias produce. I hadn't been able to find that article again, or a mention that S. verbenaca is active anywhere. I had concluded that it's most likely a genetic variation in that locality, but who knows.

Its been years since I experienced S. verbenaca, as I had decided that this particular plant is not ideal for me as it left me quite disoriented in the next days, but of course people change, their awareness and way of being and relating change, so I could try it again one day. The effect was very inside pulling (just like salvinorin a) but I don't recall a strong somatic effect like S A. Very ecstatic, visual enhancement, channeling of songs, sometimes even dancing. Thought got very disrupted on higher doses. Somehow I had the impression that it also is a K opioid agonist. As for how is it different from tropanes, it does not give any tropane side effects no matter how high the dose, and no delirium, but rather a complete shut down of thought. That's a practical explanation, but in the end, I felt the sage energy behind it and the similarities to S A in effect and feel. One difference from S A was that it appeared readily water soluble and bioavailable.

For now my favorite active sages are S. absconditiflora and S. sclarea.

Any possible further discussion shall be done on a potential Sage thread to not disrupt the nightshades thread :⁠-⁠)

Thank you for the links and resources, Transform!

 

[murklan]

A discussion on sages beyond ones with salvinorin a would be very nice indeed. I had read an article years ago mentioning the existence of many psychedelic sages, and that salvinorin a is not the only goodie (diterpene) that Salvias produce. I hadn't been able to find that article again, or a mention that S. verbenaca is active anywhere. I had concluded that it's most likely a genetic variation in that locality, but who knows.

Its been years since I experienced S. verbenaca, as I had decided that this particular plant is not ideal for me as it left me quite disoriented in the next days, but of course people change, their awareness and way of being and relating change, so I could try it again one day. The effect was very inside pulling (just like salvinorin a) but I don't recall a strong somatic effect like S A. Very ecstatic, visual enhancement, channeling of songs, sometimes even dancing. Thought got very disrupted on higher doses. Somehow I had the impression that it also is a K opioid agonist. As for how is it different from tropanes, it does not give any tropane side effects no matter how high the dose, and no delirium, but rather a complete shut down of thought. That's a practical explanation, but in the end, I felt the sage energy behind it and the similarities to S A in effect and feel. One difference from S A was that it appeared readily water soluble and bioavailable.

For now my favorite active sages are S. absconditiflora and S. sclarea.

Any possible further discussion shall be done on a potential Sage thread to not disrupt the nightshades thread :⁠-⁠)

Thank you for the links and resources, Transform!

Yes to a Sage thread! Curious of how you use S. sclarea, it's one of the Sages I grow together with officinalis and glutinosa.

 

[Jamie01]

Has anyone else noticed some flashes of coloured light… sort of like static lightening flashing across the peripheral vision on low or threshold doses?

My only experience of it has been with very small doses of brugmansia leaf smoked with cannabis. I harvest datura seed when I find them at work, and have smoked the leaf a few times as well but don’t have enough experience to really say much about that atm.

The brugmansia is at least a useful sedative to have around in micro doses, and what my plants drop alone is more than needed.

I guess next will be some sort of topical ointment, but the real goal there is just to help my old arthritic joints really.

 

[dithyramb]

I don't experience that Jamie. It could be about brugmansia, or combining it with the green, or something subjective to you.

 

[dithyramb]

After two days of extremely tiny mandrake flower and leaf teas, I found myself in a space of feeling my deep emotional wounds, expressing a lot of emotions and a fair amount of crying.

İt seems like this "dark"/"underworld" association of mandrake is related to the connection it gives to the negative emotions and traumas. According to some internet sources, mandrake flower essence facilitates emotional release and "getting to the root of one's problems and getting a motivation for change." (One such source).

I recall getting to such a state on my first encounter with mandrake, in which I had eaten a surprising amount of fresh raw root without getting any tropane side effects (I actually have a hypothesis that it triggers side effects much more readily when dried. Needs further testing).

This is such a contrast to Datura stramonium. Stramonium flowers and seeds temporarily erase my wounded or negative emotions and just make me operate from my higher self. Opposite plants.

I never got a feeling of going insane with mandrake, even with a few dried root overdoses with serious physical side effects - complete loss of control of body, uncontrollable twitching of legs, completely dry mouth and nose, complete inability to urinate etc. Datura stramonium flowers or seeds made me feel like I am close to losing my mind a few times, even with no physical side effects. Still, mandrake feels more challenging for me, because my emotional wounds actually feel more challenging to go through.

I had combined rue with a tiny fresh growth mandrake leaf once and it was an amazing visceral somatic feeling with a very dark (not evil, but scary) vibe, going straight into very serious familial wounds which are beyond me to heal (honestly feel hopeless). No side effects.

İt was rue and phragmites which pulled me out of the difficult space now in my latest encounter. I hope to have done some tangible progress in my emotional healing.

 

[dithyramb]

Today I tried smoking dried autumnalis leaf, without inhaling in the lungs - "cheek smoking" like they do with mapacho. I felt it's energy immediately. After smoking slightly over 1 cm square worth of leaf, I felt quite in a trance, and once again in a surprisingly strong energetically and emotionally vulnerable state.

It will likely be more meaningful to combine it with rue as it needs direction/force. The root in contrast does have a force/"speaking guidance" according to a few experiences I had years ago.

Amazing how dreamlike reality became with such a tiny amount of uninhaled leaf smoke.

 

[blig-blug]

I have recently found some Hyoscyamus aureus plants. It's a species very close to H. niger, henbane. In this area peasants used to fry its seeds with oil and apply the oil to a cow's udders when they were inflamed or sore. I had never seen this plant before. Here are a couple of pictures.