-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Non toxic food safe extraction of mescaline using d-limonene (orange oil)
- Thread starter 69ron
- Start date
narmz
Rising Star
Jorkest said:
ooh, that's some good advice. SWIM initially did not have much success with this tek, yielding less than 1% of a dark tar-like substance. Maybe this was SWIM's issue. Anyhow, SWIM found the Hcl tek to work much better for him, but will probably give this one another go following this advice.
kaos.underwave
Rising Star
thanks Jorkest that sounds like a good idea. Extra oil might be why SWIM has yielded 7.6g+ from 120g cactus so far. I'm thinking theres some mescaline in there, I just need to quadruple normal doses to find it. SWIM should have yielded ~1.8g, accounting for wastage...
kaos.underwave
Rising Star
Yeah, its weird. Thing is the amount of solids obtained decreased with each vinegar wash of the limo - this was the same for every limo batch, loads from the first vinegar wash, almost nothing from the third. Assuming that SWIM's technique was pretty much the same throughout, it would appear to have nothing to do with that, or with the vinegar; looks more like the limo just pulled out all that stuff with the mescaline. SWIM did mess up the proportions for the initial stages, and a large clump of dry CaOH was stuck at the bottom of the measuring cylinder SWIM foolishly decided to mix in. Although the ph seemed high [12ish], the cactus material hadn't really broken down after 36hrs, not until he got the second limo pull under way did it show any sign of getting mushier. If the incorrect amount of CaOH was present, could it be possible that the mescaline was not optimally titrated [?] and some other stuff was pulled out instead because the ph wasn't right? Does that make sense?
It was common practise of old housewives to use vinegar for cleaning the kitchen area and other surfaces off lipids. SWIM's grandmother still uses vinegar as a very mild all-around and cheap degreaser. She claims that vinegar can dissolve lipids and fats.
It is not far-fetched to speculate that vinegar can "help" some cactus lipids to dissolve frm the limonene to the water. This may be responsible for pulling much more crap out of limonene other than mescaline and other alkaloids.
It would help to use more dilute vinegar in the future.
It is not far-fetched to speculate that vinegar can "help" some cactus lipids to dissolve frm the limonene to the water. This may be responsible for pulling much more crap out of limonene other than mescaline and other alkaloids.
It would help to use more dilute vinegar in the future.
kaos.underwave
Rising Star
you reckon? but people are having great results following the tek to the letter...
I didn't say that they do not have great results. Even though the bioassay is most people's only indicator to know whether they actually got great result or not. SWIY got "great results" that were not so great in the end of the day.kaos.underwave said:
I am not arguing whether the tek is good or bad. I'm confident that it is good and that it works fine. I am just saying that too much vinegar (or more correctly too concentrated vinegar) can pull fats and soaps out of limonene thus giving the impression of a yield bigger than it actually is.
After all, vinegar is an organic acid and it can dissolve (or help solubilize) to some extend other organic acids and organic salts such as fatty acids and soaps. Fatty acids and soaps are by definition present in the limonene that has been used to pull basified cactus.
kaos.underwave
Rising Star
ok sure, maybe, but my vinegar is standard cheap, 5% distilled vinegar. My point was merely that unless the particular brand of vinegar I'm using has unique properties amongst vinegars, surely someone else would have experienced what I have.
Thanks for the advice, and it does make sense, I just think that messing with the volumes and concentrations that have been laid out here, tried and tested, would probably cause more problems than it would solve; and I cant see a different brand of vinegar suddenly making everything work. You understand why I dont want to deviate from the tek; this batch was such a botched job, next time I'd rather stick as closely as possible to the tek rather than depart even further than I did with this failure...
I mean I need more vinegar anyway, so I can get a different bottle, but I cant do more than wildy hope that this will fix the problem. I think a better source of cactus [still desperate for recommendations btw people] and being less of a moron will probably help the most.
Thanks for the advice, and it does make sense, I just think that messing with the volumes and concentrations that have been laid out here, tried and tested, would probably cause more problems than it would solve; and I cant see a different brand of vinegar suddenly making everything work. You understand why I dont want to deviate from the tek; this batch was such a botched job, next time I'd rather stick as closely as possible to the tek rather than depart even further than I did with this failure...
I mean I need more vinegar anyway, so I can get a different bottle, but I cant do more than wildy hope that this will fix the problem. I think a better source of cactus [still desperate for recommendations btw people] and being less of a moron will probably help the most.
SWIM sent me a telegram today about his extraction status, so I thought I'd share his info with you.
1) This tek, followed exactly, 3 seperate 100g extractions -> yields black/brown goo.
SWIM and others tried various doses up to 400mg to NO effect
2) HCL tek yielded off-white powder, also inactive
SWIM is convinced that his cactus was of the inactive "PC pachanoi" variety: SEE HERE
69ron, SWIM would like to thank you again - even through this failure, he's equipped and excited for the next attempt.
1) This tek, followed exactly, 3 seperate 100g extractions -> yields black/brown goo.
SWIM and others tried various doses up to 400mg to NO effect
2) HCL tek yielded off-white powder, also inactive
SWIM is convinced that his cactus was of the inactive "PC pachanoi" variety: SEE HERE
69ron, SWIM would like to thank you again - even through this failure, he's equipped and excited for the next attempt.
ncsponger
Rising Star
Results from extraction of 100g peruvian torch powder: SWIM wouldn't say he followed this TEK to a "T", but very closely. Varied a little from the limonene and vinegar volumes and also filtered the vinegar through one coffee filter. This attempt was very "ghetto". SWIM had no digital scale so a sloppy fulcrum balance was rigged utilising nickels in copy paper sacks.:? Two vinegar washes from two D-limonene pulls(currently washing the third pull). It took about 6 hours in an oven set to "warm" to evaporate the vinegar. The oven temp. was measured with a voltmeter/temperature meter, and read about 159 degrees farenheit at max. on "warm" setting.
As the vinegar was almost gone small crystalline masses began to form, but mostly a dark amber oily substance surrounded the crystalline structures. As evaporation continued it became evident that SWIM would be left with a dark amber/nearly black goo. The substance reminded SWIM of his attempt at obtaining opium from dried poppy pods(failure!).
The final substance after ~6 hours drying was a brown/amber semi-dry goop streaked around the pyrex evaporation pan.
It appeared oily for a while until it was scraped and stirred around with a spoon. After scraping it around, it seemed to appear more dry; however upon touching the amber substance with ones finger, it would instantly regain this wet look.
SWIM scraped up a ball that looked like it would fit in a number 5 capsule. A wild guess really. SWIM dissolved the small pellet in a strong cup of Folgers coffee, and headed to work. Within 20 minutes 'something' changed. SWIM felt jittery and slightly relaxed at the same time. Through the next few hours the jittery feeling subsided and left SWIM with a pleasant mental sensation that lasted maybe 5 hours. Occasionaly SWIM got this sensual tingling feeling around his member that almost felt like a proper BJ.
At times SWIM felt what SHULGIN described in his description of mescaline. The blades of grass in someones yard were just sitting there living, doing there thing, and it would have been upsetting to walk on them.
SWIM will try to end this post before he rambles on anymore. This extract WAS active. It let a cactus virgin know where it will take him. The initial jitters were not very pleasant, almost made it hard to talk to fellow employees at the shop.:shock: SWIM doesn't own a milligram scale so the dose is unknow. If one took two BBs and put them together it would probably equal the size roughly.
SWIM is currently scraping the rest of the material from the pyres dish and will report back later with a higher dose. Thanks 69ron.
As the vinegar was almost gone small crystalline masses began to form, but mostly a dark amber oily substance surrounded the crystalline structures. As evaporation continued it became evident that SWIM would be left with a dark amber/nearly black goo. The substance reminded SWIM of his attempt at obtaining opium from dried poppy pods(failure!).
The final substance after ~6 hours drying was a brown/amber semi-dry goop streaked around the pyrex evaporation pan.
It appeared oily for a while until it was scraped and stirred around with a spoon. After scraping it around, it seemed to appear more dry; however upon touching the amber substance with ones finger, it would instantly regain this wet look.
SWIM scraped up a ball that looked like it would fit in a number 5 capsule. A wild guess really. SWIM dissolved the small pellet in a strong cup of Folgers coffee, and headed to work. Within 20 minutes 'something' changed. SWIM felt jittery and slightly relaxed at the same time. Through the next few hours the jittery feeling subsided and left SWIM with a pleasant mental sensation that lasted maybe 5 hours. Occasionaly SWIM got this sensual tingling feeling around his member that almost felt like a proper BJ.
At times SWIM felt what SHULGIN described in his description of mescaline. The blades of grass in someones yard were just sitting there living, doing there thing, and it would have been upsetting to walk on them.
SWIM will try to end this post before he rambles on anymore. This extract WAS active. It let a cactus virgin know where it will take him. The initial jitters were not very pleasant, almost made it hard to talk to fellow employees at the shop.:shock: SWIM doesn't own a milligram scale so the dose is unknow. If one took two BBs and put them together it would probably equal the size roughly.
SWIM is currently scraping the rest of the material from the pyres dish and will report back later with a higher dose. Thanks 69ron.
ncsponger
Rising Star
Finally got an accurate scale. First pull= 540mg. The material left after evaporating the vinegar is weird. It's oily for a couple days but as it sits, circular crystalline patterns begin to form in random areas in the pyrex pan. It looks like the circle crystal patterns that DMT forms from freeze precipitation. But when you try to scrape it up, it returns to a waxy dough-like substance. SWIM will try 175mg and report back.
lonederanger
Rising Star
SWIM didnt get around to trying a desiccant but is now dehydrating in a small room, like a bathroom for example, using a small mini-frige sized dehumidifier placed in the same room with the door closed. the dehumidifier is set to continuous and the bathroom gets bone dry as the rockies in humid swamp weather.
SWIM told me this significantly accelerates the drying process and has evaped approx 40ml of their 100 ml pull in under 12 hours whereas previous ambient evaps took them over 4 days to completion.
SWIM believes that a pyrex dish placed in a thick garbage bag with desiccant would work similarly. SWIM will try when they move to a location w/o dehumidifier, but as of now that probably works better.
SWIM told me this significantly accelerates the drying process and has evaped approx 40ml of their 100 ml pull in under 12 hours whereas previous ambient evaps took them over 4 days to completion.
SWIM believes that a pyrex dish placed in a thick garbage bag with desiccant would work similarly. SWIM will try when they move to a location w/o dehumidifier, but as of now that probably works better.
69ron
Rising Star
Acetates in general take a very long time to dry.
The drying in this tech is a pain in the ass. Even with a good food dehydrator it takes a long time. Sometimes 2 days to completely dry depending on the amount you're drying. Once it looks sort of solid, scrape it up and dry some more. It should dry to a waxy texture and should not feel wet at all.
You can clean mescaline hydrochloride with acetone and then 99% IPA to get pure white powder, but that doesn't work with mescaline acetate because it's soluble in both solvents.
Has anyone tried doing any new clean up procedures with mescaline acetate that I haven't heard of before with solvents like MEK or DMSO or ice cold acetone, etc.?
Maybe it's possible to freeze precipitate it in acetone or 99% IPA? Any idea folks?
The drying in this tech is a pain in the ass. Even with a good food dehydrator it takes a long time. Sometimes 2 days to completely dry depending on the amount you're drying. Once it looks sort of solid, scrape it up and dry some more. It should dry to a waxy texture and should not feel wet at all.
You can clean mescaline hydrochloride with acetone and then 99% IPA to get pure white powder, but that doesn't work with mescaline acetate because it's soluble in both solvents.
Has anyone tried doing any new clean up procedures with mescaline acetate that I haven't heard of before with solvents like MEK or DMSO or ice cold acetone, etc.?
Maybe it's possible to freeze precipitate it in acetone or 99% IPA? Any idea folks?
Could mescaline acetate possibly be more hydroscopic hence why it takes so long to dry? Also maybe why people say its inactive because it accumulates a lot of water and then it seems less active because the weight is skewed?
69ron
Rising Star
Mescaline acetate is more active than mescaline HCl. Even though mescaline acetate is slightly heavier than mescaline HCl, it absorbs faster and so it’s slightly stronger.
I think that false rumor about mescaline acetate being inactive comes from people’s failed extraction attempts using vinegar.
Mescaline acetate isn’t hygroscopic. Mescaline HCl is actually more polar than mescaline acetate that’s why mescaline HCl is insoluble in IPA while mescaline acetate is soluble in IPA. I’m not quite sure why mescaline acetate takes so long to dry. It’s very slightly melted at room temperature and that might have something to do with why it takes so long to dry. It’s like freebase DMT, very waxy and not totally solid at room temperature.
I think that false rumor about mescaline acetate being inactive comes from people’s failed extraction attempts using vinegar.
Mescaline acetate isn’t hygroscopic. Mescaline HCl is actually more polar than mescaline acetate that’s why mescaline HCl is insoluble in IPA while mescaline acetate is soluble in IPA. I’m not quite sure why mescaline acetate takes so long to dry. It’s very slightly melted at room temperature and that might have something to do with why it takes so long to dry. It’s like freebase DMT, very waxy and not totally solid at room temperature.
narmz
Rising Star
I've read some other tek's in other places where they salt mescaline out of water using citric acid to make mescaline citrate, and the results looked like white crystals/powder. Is mescaline citrate any less potent than acetate? Is there a reason not to go for the citrate?
69ron
Rising Star
narmz said:
Mescaline citrate is less potent, but you just take more for the same effect, so what difference does it make? If the citrate tech works for you why not go for it?
SWIM could never get the citrate techs to precipitate anything out of the water. He tried many times and it never worked. I don’t know why. He ended up with a bunch of citric acid with a tiny bit of mescaline citrate in it and couldn’t get out the excess citric acid. It was a real bummer. He tried a dozen times and it never worked.
If you can get it to work then you can do it with this tech’s results because citric acid is a stronger acid than acetic acid (vinegar) and so if you mix mescaline acetate with water and citric acid, it will form mescaline citrate and theoretically mescaline citrate should precipitate out. But unfortunately, SWIM has never been able to get mescaline citrate to precipitate out of water ever so he’s not even going to mention that in this tech because it didn’t work for SWIM ever. If SWIM could get that to work, he’d change the vinegar in this tech to citric acid water.
