psilocybin
Rising Star
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downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Cheesecat - can you describe the smell in any more detail? Indolic bases will smell fecal in higher concentrations so if it smells like shit, or melted plastic, or mothballs that could be a good sign.
Limonene itself is not entirely stable in contact with air and moisture. One of its oxidation products is carvone so you may be left with traces of a minty/dill scent from that, as well as some other funky notes from further traces of terpenoid decomposition products. Medium-chain aldehydes cant smell sweaty/vomity, for example. This is a major downside to using limonene IMO/IME.
Limonene itself is not entirely stable in contact with air and moisture. One of its oxidation products is carvone so you may be left with traces of a minty/dill scent from that, as well as some other funky notes from further traces of terpenoid decomposition products. Medium-chain aldehydes cant smell sweaty/vomity, for example. This is a major downside to using limonene IMO/IME.
CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Thanks downwardsfromzero 
The smell is really hard to pinpoint. It isn’t sweet smelling, definitely doesn’t smell like shit and also doesn’t smell like melted plastic. I guess it smells a bit musty? I’ve had it in the hot water cupboard the last few days and the smell is almost entirely gone now.
The smell is really hard to pinpoint. It isn’t sweet smelling, definitely doesn’t smell like shit and also doesn’t smell like melted plastic. I guess it smells a bit musty? I’ve had it in the hot water cupboard the last few days and the smell is almost entirely gone now.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
What colour was the limonene? If it was anything other than clear and colourless this could lead to odours.
There are three main ways of obtaining limonene from citrus peel - expression (pressing), solvent extraction, and steam distillation. Each has its merits and drawbacks; the first two will contain non-volatile components if they aren't subjected to secondary purification and tend to give a product with an orange to yellow coloration.
These possibilities are hinted at in the SDS, although the "<=100%" value is unhelpful in absence of a lower limit. It makes it look as though they can't be bothered to do a batch analysis on their product. (I mean, if it's only meant for wiping the floor why would they add that cost? :lol: ) They likely get hold of whatever limonene fractions they can and stick them together in a big tank prior to bottling. One would rather hope they at least keep track of the providence of their incoming deliveries.
Was there any further technical information, such as acidity, moisture content and colour?
What I would consider doing with limonene-based solvents is washing them with vinegar and then sodium carbonate solution immediately prior to use.
Of course, the musty odour may have come from the plant source material that you used.
There are three main ways of obtaining limonene from citrus peel - expression (pressing), solvent extraction, and steam distillation. Each has its merits and drawbacks; the first two will contain non-volatile components if they aren't subjected to secondary purification and tend to give a product with an orange to yellow coloration.
These possibilities are hinted at in the SDS, although the "<=100%" value is unhelpful in absence of a lower limit. It makes it look as though they can't be bothered to do a batch analysis on their product. (I mean, if it's only meant for wiping the floor why would they add that cost? :lol: ) They likely get hold of whatever limonene fractions they can and stick them together in a big tank prior to bottling. One would rather hope they at least keep track of the providence of their incoming deliveries.
Was there any further technical information, such as acidity, moisture content and colour?
What I would consider doing with limonene-based solvents is washing them with vinegar and then sodium carbonate solution immediately prior to use.
Of course, the musty odour may have come from the plant source material that you used.
CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Yeah, the SDS does seem pretty vague. I've attached some more info but there's still quite a bit of "No Data Available". The colour is completely clear (when pulling from the base mix it turns yellow). The limonene wasn't advertised as food grade but was advertised as 99% min pure D-Limonene (I'm a little sceptical of its purity now though). The SDS does indicates it's suitable as a flavour enhancer.
Good idea about washing the limonene. So the point of the washes is to catch any impurities that might be contained in the D-Limonene and by using an acidic wash followed by an alkaline wash will help catch impurities that are soluble at a range of pH levels?
It's interesting, I thought finding a DMT containing plant would be the hardest part of the extraction journey but the hardest part has been finding a reliable NPS. Unfortunately AR grade chemicals aren't available to the public where I am, hence why I've gone with limonene. Shellite and Zippo all leave behind a thin hazy layer after evap
Good idea about washing the limonene. So the point of the washes is to catch any impurities that might be contained in the D-Limonene and by using an acidic wash followed by an alkaline wash will help catch impurities that are soluble at a range of pH levels?
It's interesting, I thought finding a DMT containing plant would be the hardest part of the extraction journey but the hardest part has been finding a reliable NPS. Unfortunately AR grade chemicals aren't available to the public where I am, hence why I've gone with limonene. Shellite and Zippo all leave behind a thin hazy layer after evap
Attachments
notlost4ever
Rising Star
Hey there guys, I did an extraction using cybs salt tek and did a double extraction to purify. My extraction was a success and the crystals are great.
I only have one quarrel.
I used 14% vinnegar and was wondering if that is too much of a percentage or if it's dangerous to the outcome of the crystals
(I did try looking around for my answer, and this is my last resort)
thanks in advanced
I only have one quarrel.
I used 14% vinnegar and was wondering if that is too much of a percentage or if it's dangerous to the outcome of the crystals
(I did try looking around for my answer, and this is my last resort)
thanks in advanced
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Acetic acid (from the vinegar) is volatile so any excess of it should evaporate off, albeit slowly, if you've made solid DMT acetate. If you've converted back to freebase this is not an issue, since the excess vinegar forms sodium acetate which stays in the aqueous phase.notlost4ever said:
notlost4ever
Rising Star
downwardsfromzero said:
Forgive me, for pushing further. I did the whole caustic solution with salt and naptha, and then extracted just the naptha and put it into the freezer dishes and the crystals formed on the bottom, then removing the naptha and drying the dishes to scrape off the dmt. Does this mean I have a free base dmt or the Solid DMT acetate?
notlost4ever
Rising Star
downwardsfromzero said:
Forgive me, for pushing further. I did the whole caustic solution with salt and naptha, and then extracted just the naptha and put it into the freezer dishes and the crystals formed on the bottom, then removing the naptha and drying the dishes to scrape off the dmt. Does this mean I have a free base dmt or the Solid DMT acetate?
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
DMT Extraction Overview
Basic Chemistry
Have a read and a think - you should be able to work this one out; maybe you have an idea already?
Basic Chemistry
Have a read and a think - you should be able to work this one out; maybe you have an idea already?
Can someone rate this extraction procedure and lmk if it’s safe for a first timer?
Apparently using naphtha is harmful? Is drying it out like he did enough to safely vaporise the dmt and vape it?
Also if anyone knows , how do you vaporise the dmt in that crystallised turned powder form? Do u just dissolve it in a non nic vape base, put it in a cart and vaporise that?
Apparently using naphtha is harmful? Is drying it out like he did enough to safely vaporise the dmt and vape it?
Also if anyone knows , how do you vaporise the dmt in that crystallised turned powder form? Do u just dissolve it in a non nic vape base, put it in a cart and vaporise that?
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Nothing is ever truly safe, but his description of a STB extraction was clear and concise; the rest of your questions can be answered by browsing the forum.
One thing I'd maybe take issue with is shaking a gallon jar like that. You'd need to be careful to ensure the outside remains dry, and when it has naphtha added it may as well be rolled back and forth along a flat surface for a while.
When the bark powder is added, I'd suggest mixing it into some proportion of the water that gets used, before then combining it with the lye solution. Or at least do so if you don't fancy shaking a gallon jar of caustic soup for 5 minutes.
That guy seems to be producing tons of DMT n a hurry, which seems a bit shady...
As I've said, take a look through some of the basic guides in the forum Welcome Area since most of your questions will have been answered there already. There's also a wiki where you can find a huge amount of useful information to help you on the path towards your goals.
One thing I'd maybe take issue with is shaking a gallon jar like that. You'd need to be careful to ensure the outside remains dry, and when it has naphtha added it may as well be rolled back and forth along a flat surface for a while.
When the bark powder is added, I'd suggest mixing it into some proportion of the water that gets used, before then combining it with the lye solution. Or at least do so if you don't fancy shaking a gallon jar of caustic soup for 5 minutes.
That guy seems to be producing tons of DMT n a hurry, which seems a bit shady...
According to whom? It's best to avoid inhaling solvent vapours in general, and flammable solvents should be kept away from possible sources of ignition. There are many solvents which are far more toxic than aliphatic naphtha, and a good number that are more flammable. It's a matter of hazard awareress and the corresponding safety procedures. You ought to be at least as cautious with the caustic soda that's used in the extraction. Eye protection is a must and protective gloves are highly desirable.
As I've said, take a look through some of the basic guides in the forum Welcome Area since most of your questions will have been answered there already. There's also a wiki where you can find a huge amount of useful information to help you on the path towards your goals.
Hey! Thank you sm for your reply
I took my time to browse the wiki and forums, thank you for linking them, loads of my question have been answered already
However there still are a few that I have
Are you suggesting mixing the powder with the base just w a spoon instead of shaking it all around? And rolling around the jar to collect the DMT instead of flipping around the naphtha?
Also, I couldn’t find a clear answer to my question about how to get it into a DMT vape cart like this : https://psychedelicsforsalesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/3.jpg
I Only found alternative methods, could you lmk how to do this, or link somewhere that will? Pls
I intend to smoke / vaporise it like as if it’s an actual vape - without inhaling nic and all the other toxic chemicals - so how do I get the powdered dmt into a liquidised form, into a DMT vape like that? Do I mix it with a non nic e liquid? What ratios? Etc etc (I’ve read some liquids will deminish the effects of DMT, so I have 0 clue where to go after I’ve got it into a powder)
Sorry, thank you for your time
I took my time to browse the wiki and forums, thank you for linking them, loads of my question have been answered already
However there still are a few that I have
Are you suggesting mixing the powder with the base just w a spoon instead of shaking it all around? And rolling around the jar to collect the DMT instead of flipping around the naphtha?
Also, I couldn’t find a clear answer to my question about how to get it into a DMT vape cart like this : https://psychedelicsforsalesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/3.jpg
I Only found alternative methods, could you lmk how to do this, or link somewhere that will? Pls
I intend to smoke / vaporise it like as if it’s an actual vape - without inhaling nic and all the other toxic chemicals - so how do I get the powdered dmt into a liquidised form, into a DMT vape like that? Do I mix it with a non nic e liquid? What ratios? Etc etc (I’ve read some liquids will deminish the effects of DMT, so I have 0 clue where to go after I’ve got it into a powder)
Sorry, thank you for your time
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
scaredofthedark
Rising Star
downwardsfromzero said:
Hi downwards,
A few questions:
1. What do you mean by needing to ensure the outside remains dry? I figured shaking like that with a tightened lid would be an issue due to thermal expansion since it's still hot from the lye, but maybe the bark cooled it enough already? I can't tell what you mean by this. Dropping it? Sorry.
2. The guy in the video recommends heating the naphtha. Is that really still recommended? I feel like the NPS is such a small % of most recipes that it will reach thermal equilibrium immediately, no? Seems like an unnecessary step.
Gearing up for my first extraction soon.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Yes, basically you don't want a wet jar slipping out of your hands.
Heating the naphtha is indeed regarded as largely pointless these days. If you just look at the physics of it, using warm soup makes loads more sense on account of the far great heat capacity of water compared to naphtha. There's also much more water too.
There's an important caveat - take care with hot water baths or pre-heated base soup. The mixing jar will crack from thermal shock quite easily unless it's made of heat resistant glass. A gentle and even pre-warming process is advised, along with a secondary container of sufficient size to comfortably contain the entire contents of the mixing jar in case of catastrophic spillage.
Rather than rolling the jar, using a turkey baster or similar device to inject the naphtha down into the very bottom of the base soup is another option to consider. The key is to maximise contact area between the aqueous and non-polar phases but without breaking either of them up into tiny droplets. (Which, incidentally, is an important constraining factor when working on extractions outside the usual suggested range of scale.)
Heating the naphtha is indeed regarded as largely pointless these days. If you just look at the physics of it, using warm soup makes loads more sense on account of the far great heat capacity of water compared to naphtha. There's also much more water too.
There's an important caveat - take care with hot water baths or pre-heated base soup. The mixing jar will crack from thermal shock quite easily unless it's made of heat resistant glass. A gentle and even pre-warming process is advised, along with a secondary container of sufficient size to comfortably contain the entire contents of the mixing jar in case of catastrophic spillage.
Rather than rolling the jar, using a turkey baster or similar device to inject the naphtha down into the very bottom of the base soup is another option to consider. The key is to maximise contact area between the aqueous and non-polar phases but without breaking either of them up into tiny droplets. (Which, incidentally, is an important constraining factor when working on extractions outside the usual suggested range of scale.)
scaredofthedark
Rising Star
Thanks for the help. From working with Mason jars for mycology, I definitely understand the basics of avoiding thermal shock, rapid changes in temperature, no direct contact with heat sources, etc. I do have borosilicate vessels for this so I think I should be good. Always a good reminder, though, borosilicate or not.
Good suggestion on using the turkey baster instead of rolling. My plan was to swirl the jars by hand once the NPS is in, but will give the baster a shot, too. I'm assuming the bit about "tiny droplets" is referencing emulsion. If so, I've read a bit about it and know that avoiding vigorous shaking is a good way to prevent this. I believe the pickling salt I'm including also serves (secondarily) as a preventative measure, too.
One thing I'm curious about is the timing of adding certain things, especially related to gases. When gradually mixing the lye into cold water, it'll heat up from the exothermic reaction (and also produce gases). Due to this, I plan on swirling/stirring without capping the bottle (with proper PPE and venting, of course). Once mixed thoroughly, I figure I can pour in my bark + cold water mix into the lye.
1. At this point, if the lye is fully dissolved, is there much risk mixing with the cap on?
2. Should I still periodically loosen it to vent if I don't heat it up?
3. Do people utilize the exothermic reaction itself to be the "heat" for the bark? I'm reading a Tek that says it's necessary to wait for lye to hit room temperature, but others on here don't mention that.
4. As I understand it, the primary reason quoted for avoiding too high of temperatures was extracting plant lipids (not sure if this is correct or not). I'm using MHRB which has very little plant fats so this shouldn't be a concern. Is there an optimal temperature to heat the soup so the naphtha can pull as much as possible?
Edit: I see you touched on #4 a bit here. I've always seen yellow DMT treated as sub-optimal from white, but all recent research lead me to believe yellow is no different than white after GCMS analysis. It seems likely it's oxidation and the differences are due to DMT being polymorphic? Any evidence that oxidized DMT gives different experiences than non?
If any of this is wrong or problematic, I'd appreciate any corrections. I have searched plenty and believe I have a good handle on the process. I do find conflicting information (or very dated material) so I'm hoping for clarification (and any additional information). Also, I'm numbering stuff for clarity, not listing them like chores you're obligated to answer.
Thanks again for the help!
Good suggestion on using the turkey baster instead of rolling. My plan was to swirl the jars by hand once the NPS is in, but will give the baster a shot, too. I'm assuming the bit about "tiny droplets" is referencing emulsion. If so, I've read a bit about it and know that avoiding vigorous shaking is a good way to prevent this. I believe the pickling salt I'm including also serves (secondarily) as a preventative measure, too.
One thing I'm curious about is the timing of adding certain things, especially related to gases. When gradually mixing the lye into cold water, it'll heat up from the exothermic reaction (and also produce gases). Due to this, I plan on swirling/stirring without capping the bottle (with proper PPE and venting, of course). Once mixed thoroughly, I figure I can pour in my bark + cold water mix into the lye.
1. At this point, if the lye is fully dissolved, is there much risk mixing with the cap on?
2. Should I still periodically loosen it to vent if I don't heat it up?
3. Do people utilize the exothermic reaction itself to be the "heat" for the bark? I'm reading a Tek that says it's necessary to wait for lye to hit room temperature, but others on here don't mention that.
4. As I understand it, the primary reason quoted for avoiding too high of temperatures was extracting plant lipids (not sure if this is correct or not). I'm using MHRB which has very little plant fats so this shouldn't be a concern. Is there an optimal temperature to heat the soup so the naphtha can pull as much as possible?
Edit: I see you touched on #4 a bit here. I've always seen yellow DMT treated as sub-optimal from white, but all recent research lead me to believe yellow is no different than white after GCMS analysis. It seems likely it's oxidation and the differences are due to DMT being polymorphic? Any evidence that oxidized DMT gives different experiences than non?
If any of this is wrong or problematic, I'd appreciate any corrections. I have searched plenty and believe I have a good handle on the process. I do find conflicting information (or very dated material) so I'm hoping for clarification (and any additional information). Also, I'm numbering stuff for clarity, not listing them like chores you're obligated to answer.
Thanks again for the help!
Hey
Thank you for your help ; I’ve done my research on how to make the liquid and have a few doubts
From what I can tell, a higher PG to VG ratio means you can concentrate more DMT per ML and breakthrough easier but also means there’s a higher chance in leakage, and may be harsher on your lungs
What’s the recommended PG:VG and g:ml ratios for an about 2 hit breakthrough ? Is 50/50 and 1.5/2 concentrated enough for a two hit breakthrough using a sub ohm tank?
Also, is setting it on 45W good enough? I’m only aware of the fact it needs to be high enough to actually vaporise the dmt, which I saw you can get from 35W+. Above that, what’s the difference in increasing the watts?
Regarding the actual making of the liquid, do you buy ready mixed pg/vg liquid or is it really as simple as mixing pg and vg together in its required ratios
And then you just measure out the amount of pg/vg your tank can hold with a syringe, put it in a small glass bowl in a hot bowl of water and sprinkle on the right amount of DMT and it’ll dissolve with mixing? I’ve seen some people say the water needs to be exactly 60C, is that correct or can it just be boiling kettle water or anything hot
Thank you for your help ; I’ve done my research on how to make the liquid and have a few doubts
From what I can tell, a higher PG to VG ratio means you can concentrate more DMT per ML and breakthrough easier but also means there’s a higher chance in leakage, and may be harsher on your lungs
What’s the recommended PG:VG and g:ml ratios for an about 2 hit breakthrough ? Is 50/50 and 1.5/2 concentrated enough for a two hit breakthrough using a sub ohm tank?
Also, is setting it on 45W good enough? I’m only aware of the fact it needs to be high enough to actually vaporise the dmt, which I saw you can get from 35W+. Above that, what’s the difference in increasing the watts?
Regarding the actual making of the liquid, do you buy ready mixed pg/vg liquid or is it really as simple as mixing pg and vg together in its required ratios
And then you just measure out the amount of pg/vg your tank can hold with a syringe, put it in a small glass bowl in a hot bowl of water and sprinkle on the right amount of DMT and it’ll dissolve with mixing? I’ve seen some people say the water needs to be exactly 60C, is that correct or can it just be boiling kettle water or anything hot
Hungary
*<___/=/___>*
Hello !
Im newbie on extraction!
I have sodium hydroxide, sodium carbonnate,isopropyl 97%,d limonene ,vinegar,
half kilo of acacia catecha....
... and I would like to extract the simplest way first,as I never did.
After that max out the yield with these materials i have!
Need some good advise
Im newbie on extraction!
I have sodium hydroxide, sodium carbonnate,isopropyl 97%,d limonene ,vinegar,
half kilo of acacia catecha....
... and I would like to extract the simplest way first,as I never did.
After that max out the yield with these materials i have!
Need some good advise
