psilocybin
Rising Star
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official extraction help thread
- Thread starter psilocybin
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Nice crystals - care to add any more info to that? Yield? Extraction method? Starting material? How many pulls did you use, and did you combine them?
And... have you tried it yet?
This is the method and materials: official extraction help thread
I've gotten 1.2 grams out of it. Not more... I followed the video, but my jar turned out to be bigger than it claims. So I gotten air in there. So I added some water, some naptha. And didn't add lye, because I was little bit skeptical it would stuck in my naptha, and I'll ruin everything. So likely my PH is lower than it's supposed to be.
I still have this mix sitting and waiting for the weekend. There is a little bit of naptha in the jar, thin layer. I'm planning to remove it, I don't know how, so there is no naptha at all at the top. What I want is to pour a little bit more lye in there, and maybe add half-cup of bark powder. The idea is to increase PH without adding water... I don't know if it's a good idea to increase PH with the bark powder in there and with naptha in there... I'm scared lye can stuck in naptha and I won't be able to get rid of it, and it will get crystalized.
In other words, I kinda mixed it up, I don't know if it's fixable. My yield is very low, 1.2grams from 3 cups of powder. And I am recrystalizing it now, cleand up with heptane, got rid of some goo in there. Gonna be less.
Lesson number 1: check if your jar is what it claims to be. Some of them are bigger than they are!!!
I haven't tried yet. I wanted to make changa initially. I haven't dried DMT at all, except once 5MeoDMT.
Ah, yes - you did include the video link in your post, I just didn't watch it. Reading between the lines, it seems to be a standard STB with MHRB, lye and naphtha, maybe with a vinegar pre-treatment of the bark? Easier than baking a cake if you ask me (that's why I leave the cake-making to my wife
).1.2 g seems respectable enough an amount to be starting with, but I'm not sure how that relates to "3 cups" of bark, percentage-wise. It's a good idea to keep your units of measurement consistent, so it would be helpful for you to convert the measurement in cups (which is a volume measurement) into grams (which is a mass measurement). 0.4 g yield per cup only makes sense if we definitely know the mass of bark contained in one cup; if it's anything less than 50 g per cup you're starting to move into the range of acceptable yield percentage. Should it turn out to be less than 25 g per cup you would be well into the range of satisfactory. So, to that end, it would be good to ensure that you have a digital scale capable of measuring grams up to the range of 500 g or more. 3 cups is around 720 mL though, which gives me the feeling that your yield up to this point is indeed on the low side.
A couple of things you didn't appear to mention is how many pulls you've dome so far, and how much naphtha there was in each pull. With this kind of quantitative data it becomes easier to tell whether you might have some more goods to pull from the soup, or if your bark is simply of poor quality.
Experience has shown that it's not really worth wasting any time trying to remove that last thin layer of naphtha - if more pulls are planned any remaining goodies will get diluted into the fresh naphtha. If it's the last pull and you're determined to get every last drop of naphtha, find yourself a funnel that, upside-down, will fit snugly into your extraction jar. If you then slowly lower the funnel into the soup, it will gather the surface layer into the neck of the funnel where you can remove it using a pipette - so make sure you have a Pasteur pipette or a similar thin dropper available too! This makes it much easier to remove the naphtha without picking up droplets of base soup.
An alternative would be to scoop off the top layer crudely with a ladle and transfer it into a suitably-sized bottle with a long , narrow neck. You can then top up the bottle with sodium carbonate solution until the naphtha layer becomes accessible in the neck of the bottle. Again, a pipette or dropper comes in very handy here, as would a funnel. The main thing is that attempting to pipette or pour off a thin naphtha layer from a large extraction container always leads to some base soup being picked up with it.
Naphtha simply won't dissolve lye. A few fine lye particles may become suspended in the naphtha but these will either be absorbed by stirring the naphtha with the base soup, or can be removed afterwards by washing the naphtha pulls with sodium carbonate solution.
Another approach would be to draw off some of the base soup from as near the bottom of the vessel as is practicable and placing it in a container where you can mix the extra lye into it. I would advise against adding any more bark at this point since this will confuse your yield calculations. The "lye-boosted" soup can be poured (carefully - this is highly caustic sludge now!) back into the main extracting vessel. It doesn't matter about the naphtha layer - if it did, the extraction process simply wouldn't work.
Yeah, the nominal volume of a jar is usually a bit less than the absolute volume, so that it can be filled safely without overflowing.
Hope this helps, what exactly are your plans for the changa?
it was my 1st. I have to say I'm excited I was able to pull crystals at all, I was a bit skeptical. The jar is waiting there for the weekend. Gonna try to pull some more
Smoking with some kind of device, pipe... I am not quite there yet. Next step is to find out how to infuse. Since it's a very first attempt, I want to make it with herbs without too much alkaloids. Some folks recommend to "try infusing on chamomile , which greatly reduces the unpleasant coming up mentioned in the main post , and experience with plants like ginko biloba , gotu-kola and sinicuichi." (from here)
I have a very little understanding on infusing on chamomile. Also don't know what DMT proportion should be. This is something I have to find out. Would appreciate any pointers and advice. Especially on how long do I infuse, and exact steps pretty much... I'm absorbing the forum currently.
Some folks also mentioned they washed produced DMT in everclear alcohol 190. So my steps currently are:
1. DMT from naptha
2. Washed with heptane <-- I'M HERE, currently drying, will post pic tomorrow
3. Wash with alcohol by letting it evaporate
Just one pull.
So the initial formula was 3 cups of naptha, 3 cups of bark powder, 12 cups of water, 1 cup of lye powder.
I mixed up and added a bit more water, like 1/2 extra cup or more. And 1/2 extra cup of naptha. When I did all of that, naptha wasn't very yellow. I think one person mentioned the same thing above, for exactly the same method. In the future I'll be trying methods with boiling the powder for a few hours, and separating the bark (and refreezing it for later use). I don't know if it's a well-known tek or not. Would appreciate any pointers to a tek that would work. I tried to follow the most simple I found, but aiming towards achieving economical results without too much waste.
Oh, sounds like you're golden then. There's plenty more spice left in that soup.
Glad to see you've found the changa-making thread. One important matter of note though:
Changa, by definition, will include some content of harmala alkaloids, either extracted (usually from the seeds of Peganum harmala, Syrian rue), or harmala-containing plant material, often caapi leaves (i.e., from the ayahuasca vine) but sometimes shredded vine, or (rarely) ground rue seeds. This gives for a more relaxed entry to the DMT space by slowing it down, and extends the duration of the trip through the MAOI/RIMA action of the harmala alkaloids.
By contrast, what you've been describing so far is known as enhanced leaf:
Solvent free DMT enhanced leaf - warm water bath TEK
LINK TO WIKI ARTICLE This post has been given it's own entry in the DMT-Nexus wiki. Please refer to the wiki for the most up-to-date version of this TEK. Original post below ===================================== This isn't my discovery / invention but something that came along in the chat and...
forum.dmt-nexus.me
A Guide to DMT Enhanced Leaf (Changa)
Enhanced Leaf I love DMT Enhanced Leaf! Like Coschi so wisely once mentioned: My personal preference is to make DMT enhanced leaf. The reason I like this method so much is that it is convenient, effective, easy to dose, and allows for a lot of experimentation with different blends of leaf...
forum.dmt-nexus.me
Just dissolve your spice in everclear - DMT is ridiculously soluble in ethanol, one drop will liquefy quite a sizeable little pile, so you only really need to use enough alcohol to nearly cover your herbs of choice. You can estimate that volume by noting the height your changa herbs reach in the bowl you'll be mixing it in, then pouring alcohol into the empty bowl to just under that depth. Or you could do something like using a kitchen measuring spoon for the herbs, and the same spoon for the alcohol- but!:
it is rather important to weigh both your herbs and your DMT accurately so you can keep track of your dosage. This also applies if you're adding extracted harmalas, of course.
You can then dissolve the (carefully weighed amount of!) DMT in the alcohol and mix it thoroughly into the herbs. Airflow is more important than heat when evaporating off the solvent - stretch a piece of panty hose over the top of the bowl to keep out dust while setting a small fan to blow across the top of the bowl.
[One further noteworthy point: harmala alkaloids can be quite difficult to dissolve in alcohol.]
The colour of the naphtha is not entirely reliable as an indicator of the amount of alkaloids pulled - the more intense the yellow or orange coloration that develops, the more polymeric DMT has formed - but even then, because the colour of that material is so intense it's still only a tiny quantity and nothing to be overly concerned about. Because of what's now essentially a historical misunderstanding , this still often gets referred to as "fats and oils" because the polymer tends to give an oily, sticky texture to the finished product. This is all a long-winded way of say that you lucked in on the first pull and got some nice, pure, monomeric (not polymerised) DMT crystals, if I'm remembering your posts correctly. Now that your soup has stood for a week, expect the next pulls, and the subsequent precipitation, to come significantly more yellow.
This "wash" you're referring to is more of a clean-up, and it occurs by dissolving the DMT and getting it to recrystallise. In the case of heptane, this can be achieved by freeze precipitation, possibly after decanting the clear, hot heptane away from any dark, oily-looking polymers. Besides the polymers, this recrystallisation (re-x) is intended to remove any less volatile hydrocarbon remnants from the initial use of naphtha. With alcohol, this is performed to release any heptane (or other naphtha hydrocarbons) which may have been trapped in the crystals. These will all evaporate along with the ethanol, but initially you'll be left with a gooey material which may crystallise a bit over the following days.
When it comes to your next planned extraction, that sounds like you want to try an A/B method. This is straightforward enough but of course we'll be here if you have any specific questions while you're getting started. Of course, there's a whole sub-forum for A/B too:
As initially stated, you seem to be doing pretty well - it's mostly a matter of confidence, which comes best with a foundation of understanding.
What would be the tek of washing with alcohol? Some say "it would be hard to precipitate the deems from it again. Alcohols are polar". Reading up on what polar vs non-polar means. Meanwhile, trying to understand what do you mean by "left with a gooey material which may crystalise"...
I read somewhere (can't tell for sure, I've just consumed lots of pages here) that somebody says cleaning up with alcohol. I thought it's a pretty straighforward process, no? From practical standpoint, how to cleanup with alcohol? Say I have 1 gram of spice, do I add 1 gram of alcohol? Or more and wait to evaporate?
You wouldn't need to precipitate the deems again. The alcohol would evaporate along with any other solvent, and then you'd have your DMT.
Goo is a gooey consistency and another format for DMT to show up in. It's a little harder to work with.
I'd say start with 20-30ml and then move up from there.
One love
Goo is a gooey consistency and another format for DMT to show up in. It's a little harder to work with.
I'd say start with 20-30ml and then move up from there.
One love
Another question from this thread:
> PROPERLY wash the Non-Polar-Solvent in the end with a sodium (bi)carb-wash or something comparable and freeze-precipitate it afterwards you can already get practically 100 % pure Spice
Anyone familiar with this method or has links to it? I checked wherever I could. Still can't find any info. Curious how to do sodium-carb wash to get rid of non-polar-solvent. I'm planning to use heptane the next time as a solvent. While my equipment is on the way, trying to get some knowledge by reading the forum
UPD: I got it here Washing Spice - DMT-Nexus Wiki - but still a bit confusing.
> PROPERLY wash the Non-Polar-Solvent in the end with a sodium (bi)carb-wash or something comparable and freeze-precipitate it afterwards you can already get practically 100 % pure Spice
Anyone familiar with this method or has links to it? I checked wherever I could. Still can't find any info. Curious how to do sodium-carb wash to get rid of non-polar-solvent. I'm planning to use heptane the next time as a solvent. While my equipment is on the way, trying to get some knowledge by reading the forum
UPD: I got it here Washing Spice - DMT-Nexus Wiki - but still a bit confusing.
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It's the NPS that gets washed with the SC solution, ideally before freeze precipitation, ostensibly to remove traces of base soup contamination. Food grade sodium bicarbonate can be used to produce the SC by one of several thermal processes.Another question from this thread:
> PROPERLY wash the Non-Polar-Solvent in the end with a sodium (bi)carb-wash or something comparable and freeze-precipitate it afterwards you can already get practically 100 % pure Spice
Anyone familiar with this method or has links to it? I checked wherever I could. Still can't find any info. Curious how to do sodium-carb wash to get rid of non-polar-solvent. I'm planning to use heptane the next time as a solvent. While my equipment is on the way, trying to get some knowledge by reading the forum
UPD: I got it here Washing Spice - DMT-Nexus Wiki - but still a bit confusing.
I think the bit about impurities being soluble in both the alkaline water and the NPS may be misleading and possibly inaccurate.
If you want to get rid of NPS contamination from crystals, dissolve them in ethanol and leave to evaporate if this is residue from clean-evaporating naphtha. Simple patience also achieves this, usually - it can take a day or two for naphtha odour to completely disappear.
If you have residue of lower volatility you'll need to recrystallise from a clean-evaporating aliphatic hydrocarbon solvent like light naphtha or heptane. Once the crystals are dissolved, that is another point where you can perform the SC wash, prior to retrieving the crystals by cooling the NPS solution.
Right, it should be about as simple as baking a cake.
You may need to evaporate your naphtha down a bit, or return it to the base soup for more, and more vigorous, pulls.
If all that fails, you simply had poor bark to start with.
Ozzy_Chronik
Esteemed member
I'm having/had the same issue. Evap your solvent down to under half, if that doesn't work evap it down to quarter or even less
Mini A/B might provide an alternative to evaporating down a load of solvent as well.I'm having/had the same issue. Evap your solvent down to under half, if that doesn't work evap it down to quarter or even less
Ozzy_Chronik
Esteemed member
G'day mate
Since your around.
Precipitation at the edges on-top of the solvent, is that normal? I'll be pulling tomorrow Arvo for better information but inevitably have noticed this through opening the freezer today.
And yes I've done a fair bit of reading through the nexus but unfortunately most the reference photos on the subject are unavailable anymore.
Any info much appreciated cheers man
The crystals will form wherever nucleation points are present. Your particular set of conditions will have favoured the observed outcome.G'day mate
Since your around.
Precipitation at the edges on-top of the solvent, is that normal? I'll be pulling tomorrow Arvo for better information but inevitably have noticed this through opening the freezer today.
And yes I've done a fair bit of reading through the nexus but unfortunately most the reference photos on the subject are unavailable anymore.
Any info much appreciated cheers man
Sorry about the disappearing pics, third-party hosting has turned out to work against us! What particular threads/posts/pictures were you most concerned about? It may be possible to compile a set of alternative images in the wiki. Volunteers for this would be most welcome.
Ozzy_Chronik
Esteemed member
Mmm ok, make sense as its a brand new shiny dish. Regarding what you have said in another thread I believe surface evaporation of the solvent into the atmosphere of the sealed dish will cause a slight concentration at the top which is a contributing factor to localisation of crystal precip too. That coupled with a brand new dish is probably the main cause of the mentioned formation Is that correct?
Ozzy_Chronik
Esteemed member
Don't feel although I'm expecting you to provide me with an exact answer either dude. Just a valued opinion
This confirms what I was suspecting, that it was a shiny new dish. [Wouldn't I have looked super-clever if I'd have asked that beforehand
] If you want the crystals to form at the bottom of a brand new dish, lightly scratching it with a hard object before use will suffice. Doesn't have to be visible, even - no gouges necessary! And if you scratch in a specific shape, this should demonstrate that it does in fact work as stated.
In summary, your hypothesis appears sound.