Passifloras of Interest..(& MAOI plant Flavonoids)

[fred green]

I bought an incarnata at lowes, in ontario 2 weeks ago. It was in a hanging planter with a price tag of 35 bucks. I asked for a discount,and the lady gave it to me for $7.91 HST in.I repotted right away,and its coming back because it knows I love it. I always drink passionflower ginger honey tea with my mimosa rue aya. I feel it adds calm and euphoria.
I made a mistaken ID as incarnata. The give away was that the petiole is on the leaf stem
not at the base of the leaf.
What I have is a passiflora amythest,a cross between a caerulea and a kermisina.
It is looking a little rough ,but it will come around.

 

[exquisitus]

I bought an incarnata at lowes, in ontario 2 weeks ago. It was in a hanging planter with a price tag of 35 bucks. I asked for a discount,and the lady gave it to me for $7.91 HST in.I repotted right away,and its coming back because it knows I love it. I always drink passionflower ginger honey tea with my mimosa rue aya. I feel it adds calm and euphoria.

Thanx for the tip

 

[Dan]

Can someone give me a little help here?

I have wild p. incarnata cinn growing in my yard. its invaded so badly that all my bushes and plants are pretty much smothered by them. They seem to be towards the end of their flowering season. I collected roughly 50 flowers day for a few months. there was much more but i just didnt have the time or space to pick and dry them all.

So now i have probably upwards of 1000 flowers.

I cut my bushes in my yard back today, and couldnt help but to notice half the pile of yard waste was p. incarnata vine. I seperated and bagged the vine seperate from my yard waste. I have more yard work to do tomorrow which means even more vine to take out.

I cut my bushes way back and also cut back the passionflowers about 2" from the ground. I do this yearly and it comes back without question. Its here to stay.

So what im wanting to do is an extract on it for possible maoi content. Should it be dried first? Used fresh? Any teks recommended? Would the simple caapi vine extract potentially extract what i want?

I have a 36 gallon garbage bag stuffed with vine, just need some guidance.

Thanks.

Edit: I was looking at some pics i snapped of what i thought to be p. incarnata x cin and looking at the picture nen posted on page two of this thread and im not entirely convinced i have what i think i have. looks very similar but some key things i noticed.

nen would you please take a look at my pics of the species i have in my yard? It looks very similar to what you posted but some key things ive noticed is the petals on the back of the flower are more of a pink than purple. Also, not sure what you call them, but the center part of the flowers seems to be mostly yellow, doesnt have that kinda coloration like in your pic. Basically what im saying is the colors are off. Is it that it could be crossed with something else or is there just slight variances in color/etc in the same species?

Thanks again.

Looking at them again i wish i would have got closer pics. It's towards the end of its flower but im sure ill find a fresh one tomorrow to get some macros of.

 

[nen888]

..hey dan, nice pictures thanks..
if you carefully go through this thread (especially p1-2) you'll find plenty of p. incarnata/maoi info or links to further info..just quickly now, i recommend the Eskil Hultin technique (not a Manske) on p. inaranata..or just brew a very strong tea..enjoy...

 

[nen888]

..so dan, having had time to study your photos, i think you have a predominantly P. edulis plant, with a little bit of P. incarnata..it's the leaves in particular which differ from the two strains of confirmed incarnata i have growing.also true incarnata is usually more predominantly purple (except, of course, variety 'alba')..but, not to worry..it seems that a few varieties of P. edulis (common passionfruit) have similar alkaloid levels to incarnata (though some forms are much lower) ..there was at least one finding of a very high alkaloid level in P. edulis fruit rind..

 

[nen888]

^..to demonstrate the differences, some key photos of Passiflora incarnata below, showing both 5 or 3 lobed leaves, plant, and then flower..the final photo is of P. edulis leaf, more serrated and slightly different shape..

 

[imPsimon]

Excellent thread!

I have a 15cm "edulis" growing in the window.
When I read this thread it got me inspired to try and grow some more passiflora in my
windows.
The ones I'm interested in are Jorullensis, foetida and murucuja.

I have ordered the foetida seeds and they are on the way. I did this without
realising that they where called stinking passiflora. I hope it's not to overwhelming since I
live in a one room apartment. Information is conflicting in that some people
say the y stink while others say they don't.

I haven't found any vendor that carries the Jorullensis kind at the moment. They apparently smell awful.
One pesron described it as smelling like a pigsty while most accounts describe
it as smelling like "mothballs" (maybe that's a good sign?) and/or turpentine.
I dont know if my apartement can bear smelling like a pigsty.
Dmt is often described as smelling like "mothballs" though. I like the smell of dmt. Does dmt smell
like mothballs? What is a mothball?
They look crazy beatuiful though. There is a jorullensis hybrid called "passiflora sunburst" which apparently
smells even worse then the original.

I have found a vendor that ships Murucuja seeds within the EU. I'm gonna see if he can
send it in an ordinary letter with me taking full responsibility if it gets lost.

The page xantho posted called http://www.passionflow.co.uk is a vary good resource for
information and store links etc.
Here's some very beautifully made passiflora magazines in hi-res pdf:

http://www.passionflow.co.uk/passiflora-online-journal.htm

 

[SKA]

Passiflora Incarnata is grown all around my neighborhood ornamentally.

I feel like collecting about 1 kg of leaves & stems, dry them & boil them in water.
Reduce it down to about 1 cup/glass& filter out all solids.
I am curious if drinking that Tea, followed by swallowing some quite pure MHRB extract
could yield an experience as glowing as Voogelbreinder's.

I would like to duplicate Voogelbreinder's experience exactly, with P.Incarnata Tea
followed by swallowing an A.Obtusifolia extract, but Acacia Obtusifolia is a bit out of
reach to me. The flourist in my street once had a young Acacia tree for sale. It was quite expensive
& had only stems & leaves so it was hard to identify. I decided not to buy it.

In the Netherlands Acacias are quite hard to find. But I hope to obtain one, preferably
A.Simplicifolia, A.Confusa, A.Podaliriifolia and/or A.Obtusifolia and grow it in a green-
house with low humidity, protection from cold & growing lights. ( would series of powerfull LEDs cut it?)
Just to make sure it survives through the dark, cold & long winters here.

I'll have to check the local gardening stores to see if any of them sell any spicy Acacias.
If anyone here knows where to obtain a spicey Acacia seedling or bush in the Netherlands, let me know.

 

[nen888]

ImPsimon wrote:

I haven't found any vendor that carries the Jorullensis kind at the moment. They apparently smell awful.
One pesron described it as smelling like a pigsty while most accounts describe
it as smelling like "mothballs" (maybe that's a good sign?) and/or turpentine.
I dont know if my apartement can bear smelling like a pigsty.
Dmt is often described as smelling like "mothballs" though. I like the smell of dmt. Does dmt smell
like mothballs? What is a mothball?

..mothballs are mainly Camphor..
T. McKenna used to describe dmt as 'smelling of camphor', though i would say very old mothballs rather than new..
glad you got some Passiflora action on the way ImPsimon..

SKA wrote:

would like to duplicate Voogelbreinder's experience exactly, with P.Incarnata Tea
followed by swallowing an A.Obtusifolia extract, but Acacia Obtusifolia is a bit out of
reach to me. The flourist in my street once had a young Acacia tree for sale. It was quite expensive
& had only stems & leaves so it was hard to identify. I decided not to buy it.

In the Netherlands Acacias are quite hard to find. But I hope to obtain one, preferably
A.Simplicifolia, A.Confusa, A.Podaliriifolia and/or A.Obtusifolia and grow it in a green-
house with low humidity, protection from cold & growing lights.

..
actually that was this (& two friends) avatar who orally activated the ob extract with incarnata..
333grams incarnata dried per person..
the experiment reported in Voogelbreinder was the vaporising of P. incarnata freebase extract, resulting in 'dot matrix' visuals for 20 minutes..and pleasant sedation for 45..
there may be differences in strength between P. incarnata varieties..certainly, as mentioned earlier in thread the flavonoids vary..
..as far as Acacias go, the most recommended really would be either A. acuminata (1.5% DMT) or A. confusa (already easy to source plantation material used in chinese medicine) which, like obtusifolia, often has NMT..the fastest growing DMT plant would be Phalaris aquatica AQ1..
see Vosdel's indoor growing guide for the best tips on methods..
.

 

[jamie]

"the experiment reported in Voogelbreinder was the vaporising of P. incarnata freebase extract, resulting in 'dot matrix' visuals for 20 minutes..and pleasant sedation for 45.."

Wait..just the passiflora alkaloids without any DMT?

 

[nen888]

"the experiment reported in Voogelbreinder was the vaporising of P. incarnata freebase extract, resulting in 'dot matrix' visuals for 20 minutes..and pleasant sedation for 45.."

Wait..just the passiflora alkaloids without any DMT?

..affirmative..
.

 

[nen888]

^..i should give a little more info on the above mentioned P. incarnata extract (as Voogelbreinder is a friend of mine)..

it was extracted with NaOH/dichloromethane from an alcohol tincture of P. incarnata, and was a red 'soft' crystal..this suggests that ethanol may be the optimum medium for initial passionflower alkaloid extraction..Eskil Hultin (1965) found that methanol and dichloromethane extracted considerably more alkaloids than phosphoric acid/ether (naphtha)
..paper attached for members below (which also has methods for separating various harmalas from eachother)
..

 

[wira]

Nen understands this, but just to be clear for others, Voogelbreinder was reporting on Passiflora bioassays related to him by a friend credited as 'E'; the friend is the one who did those bioassays, and it's referenced as such in the book.
A small matter but credit where credit's due - not to the wrong person :lol:

 

[nen888]

^..aye wira and thanks for the comment..

so, any updates thread contributors?

now..those in Europe, the northern parts of the USA and Canada..i'm really wondering why there's such a slow uptake of Passiflora research..?
i saw a few very healthy Passiflora caerulea growing in England..and of course P. incarnata thrives in colder climates..
when people say 'yeah, but you need a lot of material'..i say first, once you're growing it a lot of material arrives each year for free..and second, how much b. caapi or p. harmala will you see growing in colder climates? (none, outside of hothouses)
the only other cold climate MAOI option i know of is Autmn Olive [see Autumn Olive (E. umbellata) Workspace] , and it's less researched than P. incarnata..

so really, it's worth the relatively minor effort and time..and they are just beautiful vines to behold in one's presence..

plenty of info in this thread..and, of course, a lot more work needed..
below, again, the Blue Passionflower, Passiflora caerulea

 

[jamie]

I have a lot of caerulea and atropurpurea that I grow and I use it in place of caapi leaf. Works fine I just never really posted much about it I guess because everyone keeps saying you either need like 500g of it to get one dose or they say that passiflora has flavonoids and not harmalas and never believe otherwise. I never used it orally in large doses though because I have not been using oral harmalas much at all. The leaf works fine in place of caapi leaf for changa.

You don't really even need a lot of material for this..but passiflora caerulea grows fine outdoors at least in my temperate zone 8..so you can easily grow kilos of it if you want to. I have passiflora at the back of my garden with colonies of phalaris all around the base of them. Pretty low maintenance.

Russian Olive btw I have also tested by smoking the leaves and to me it seemed pretty much the same effect as smoking caapi leaf. No idea why more people are not at least looking for the trees in they're own area instead of ordering caapi leaf. There is not many of them here where I am..but they are around I just have to search a bit to find them and they are often on private property. A few hours away they are invasive. I will probly just take a little cutting from a couple of them I found nearby on the side of the road just off someones property and grow it out. I collected seeds last year but I think I got them immature.

 

[nen888]

^..Passiflora & Phalaris..what a great combo! thanks for that jamie..

there are tests which show harmalas in P. incarnata/caeulea..and tests which show only flavonoids..earlier in the thread, and in a linked P. caerulea thread, i argued that the extraction methodology which only found small amounts of harmalas was flawed (45 minutes cold soak, or something like that, from memory) ..it was qualitative rather than quantitative..
also, the kind of technique to look for flavonoids (water soluble) is different to alkaloids..
so the phytochemical angle is unclear and limited..

while it may vary, based on Hultin's 0.2-3% harmalas (and Gracie & Zarkov's 0.5) i tried the P. incarnata experiment years ago..and it worked..
the worst thing i could imagine from drinking a large amount of P. incarnata/caerulea would be strong flavonoid sedation..often quite pleasant..
and if it's the right time of year/ strain or whatever..well..it's a very nice substitute for the usual aya candidates..

 

[nen888]

ps..very interesting news indeed about the Autumn Olive..!

 

[kiang]

Not sure if this has being covered.. but, i have a Passiflora caerulea and it is a garden variety (it doesn't give fruit, just sometimes a little tiny one), and i'm wondering if it might has the normal quantity of alkaloids as the fruiting variety has.

Sometimes i do a tea (flowers most of the time) and it does give me a little sedation. Good as a sleeping aid.

 

[nen888]

..interesting point kiang..i hadn't pondered the difference between fruiting vs. non-fruiting varieties..and i don't think this has been looked at chemically..
in fact, variety isn't stipulated in the 1 or 2 alkaloid tests..
that's a good start differentiating..

 

[imPsimon]

Is there a place/person where we can send in some passiflora for testing?
How could we standardise this testing?
For example on one plant several different tests could be sampled.

Ex:

Passiflora. Edulis
-Cut of a live twig
-Collect living leaves
-Collect dead leaves (if possible)
-Cut of live flowers
-Collect dead, wilted flowers

-Fruits?
-Roots?

Maybe live collection could even be done in different times of day.
Fruit and roots might be tested as well but personally they don't seem as interesting because
collecting leaves, flowers and twigs are more or less abundant when
the plants have grown for only a short while


Currently my plants aren't large enough for sampling but they will be next year.

What I have so far is:

P. Edulis
P. Caerulea
P. "Eynsford Gem" (Caerulea x Racemosa) (Only some cuttings in a glass that I hope will root)

I also have a package of five live plants that will be sent to me next week:

P. Murucuja
P. Jorullensis
P. Actinia
P. Biflora
P. Aurantia var Samoensis

I made some tea of my edulis twice now and last time I used 1.5g dried leaves with very nice
sleepy, euphoric effects.
There is a buzzing in my head/jaw/ears that I recognise from my harmaline experiments.
Is this the flavinoids maybe?

Do anyone have any experience with using Passiflora tea with mushrooms?
How will my normal mushroom dose be altered with a cup of passiflora tea?

I also wonder if it's possible to vaporise passiflora?
How effective is it?
Will the cyanide that weren't destroyed by drying (if there is any?) be destroyed by vaporising
or will i inhale a lungful of cyanide vapour...ouch!