permanent effects? your thoughts please..

[c0ma]

not really new here, been lurking around this place for a few years, just never had anything interesting to say or something to contribute.

It's been over a year since any spice was consumed by a friend, but he noticed that whenever he smokes THC it throws him into a mini trip. The only impact that the quality of THC (ditch or kind) has is the intensity of the trip. Ditch has great visuals with eyes closed (even in the dark). Good Kind will grant full blown on visuals, and weird sensations normally associated with spice that require him to stay put in fear of falling or misinterpreting the environment around him. He's still aware of the world around him, just no longer trusts what he thinks or feels. Really good Kind warps him to another reality. The real world, no longer exists and will be hours later before he can interact with the real world. This is the only reason he doesn't need to ingest any spice, despite it being readily available. It's not quite like the real thing, he equates it to a diet version of spice.

My friend wonders, is this a type of cross intolerance or expected effect? He insists that smoking before spice was completely different than it is now. He never experienced visuals, or warped out of this reality from smoking THC until after smoking spice. He does admit to making some big no no's during his initial exploration by not measuring the proper amounts to be used for 2 years.

He's not worried that's gone crazy or anything, that this is probably a temporarily side effect of the incorrect (and careless) dosages used. It will most likely eventually go away and enjoy it while it lasts.

The only real negative thing is that he can't smoke with friends anymore, as it's no fun to be trapped on a friends couch in a c0ma. He has also noticed prescribed painkillers which used to make him fall asleep in 30 minutes, now actually keeps him up for hours on end. Congestion medication such as sudafed, or dayquil actually make him go to sleep (so he uses those at night time now instead of sleep aids).

anyone else have this experience or advice for my friend?

c0ma

 

[anrchy]

Marijuana and alcohol are both slightly psychedelic now after having used dmt. No idea why or how. Although I don't experience such severe effects as you are but I have heard others proclaim the same things.

I do not know if it goes away or not. As far as I'm concerned it is not due to "improper" dosing of dmt. If the doses you took were what you were looking for it doesn't really matter that you didn't use a scale and would make no difference even if you were consistently blowing your face off from not measuring.

 

[universecannon]

This isn't uncommon really IMO. Exploring different expression of consciousness can re-arrange the architecture of your awareness in ways that alter how other plants or substances effect you, often resulting in more sensitivity overall. Just look at all the threads on how LSD can become significantly more hyperspatial after DMT use, or how meditation becomes completely different, etc.

There is also the fact that marijuana already is a powerful psychedelic...Most people just don't use it that way, for the most part, and it's incredibly underrated. But in high doses, in the right context, especially without much tolerance, it can take you pretty far.

Cannabis can be a bit nerve racking for people who experience it's intense psychedelic side, to say the least. I'm more prone to anxiety with weed than even psychedelics, but it's still a useful ally if used carefully. One way to avoid paranoia or anxiousness for me is to just do yoga beforehand, and then only smoke small hits every 10 minutes or so. This almost always bypasses uncomfortable effects. Taking some harmalas beforehand helps me and others too.

As for whether or not it is a 'permanent' change...stuff like that is very complex and so it's hard to say. Relationships with cannabis tend to change a lot over time though. But ones sensitivity to these other states depends a lot on the person and whether they try to engage with it or block it out. But you never really know I guess.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

But ones sensitivity to these other states depends a lot on the person and whether they try to engage with it or block it out.

Agreed. With intelligent use, psychoactives can be allies. Long term effects are always important factors. Learn from the experience to the best of your ability with care, patience, guidance(if necessary) and respect.

As for your friend, balance.

 

[Yoho]

I have experienced this to a milder degree. A smoke induced panic attack during a trip (not DMT) definitely left its mark on me. Whenever I smoked after that I would wind up right back in a state of psychedelic anxiety. I ended up taking a 2-year break from the ganja, and when I finally tried it again I found that the enjoyment had returned. The psychedelic aspect of the high was definitely still there but it had been reduced.

I can't guarantee that it will work for you like it did for me, but if you concerned about it consider taking a long break from mind expansion.

 

[universecannon]

Yeah some time off of it can definitely help break those cycles too when it comes to cannabis

 

[Ryusaki]

Smoking a blunt a few days after some Aya-ceremonies brought back the whole trip feeling, i could even hear the icaros in my head.

Smoking strong bud after some weeks of abstinence left me with a full blown panic attack.
Another time i smoked half a blunt and drunk half a beer and felt like i had ingested 3gr shrooms.

Even LSD turned into Ayahuasca when i tried it.

Yeah there is some strange things going on when you ingest DMT, it opens doors which might stay open for a while.

 

[c0ma]

Yeah some time off of it can definitely help break those cycles too when it comes to cannabis

Agreed, timing time off from anything is always a Good Thing(tm).

 

[c0ma]

Smoking a blunt a few days after some Aya-ceremonies brought back the whole trip feeling, i could even hear the icaros in my head.

Smoking strong bud after some weeks of abstinence left me with a full blown panic attack.
Another time i smoked half a blunt and drunk half a beer and felt like i had ingested 3gr shrooms.

Even LSD turned into Ayahuasca when i tried it.

Yeah there is some strange things going on when you ingest DMT, it opens doors which might stay open for a while.

This makes him feel better that he isn't the only one that has experienced this. He prefers the mindset of freebies than rather go digging around in search of a problem. Here's to freebies sticking around (as long as they don't interfere normal daily living, which it hasn't).

 

[c0ma]

I can't guarantee that it will work for you like it did for me, but if you concerned about it consider taking a long break from mind expansion.

Agreed, he has laid down the spice for over a year now to allow himself to integrate a couple of negative trips (but greatly appreciates now). Seems he has upset the dude in the white room and the council of 12. Nobody is kidding when they say respect the stuff. If you don't, you will...

He's not terribly worried about the effects, to him it's a freebie and last longer this way, but less intense. Cursory search didn't seem to turn any similar experiences up (but could be that i'm just not smart enough to use the search engine here).

 

[c0ma]

T
As for whether or not it is a 'permanent' change...stuff like that is very complex and so it's hard to say. Relationships with cannabis tend to change a lot over time though. But ones sensitivity to these other states depends a lot on the person and whether they try to engage with it or block it out. But you never really know I guess.

He was bothered by the anxiety building up when smoking THC, but has come to realize that the bet way to deal with it is head on. He'll have to try the yoga, see if that allows him more control.

 

[Hjortron]

There is also the fact that marijuana already is a powerful psychedelic...Most people just don't use it that way, for the most part, and it's incredibly underrated. But in high doses, in the right context, especially without much tolerance, it can take you pretty far.

Cannabis can be a bit nerve racking for people who experience it's intense psychedelic side, to say the least. I'm more prone to anxiety with weed than even psychedelics, but it's still a useful ally if used carefully.

/Signed

Cannabis, as I see it, is as strong as any psychedelic in the right doses. I've actually had extremely psychedelic journeys on it, even bad trips where I thought I was dying because I couldn't tell whether I was breathing too fast or not and had a real hard time holding on to reality.

If you have strong stuff and smoke a reasonable dose with a Gravity bong, you're going to go places you may not be prepared for. Add eating the same amount prior to that, and I don't even want to know where it will take you.

But if you only smoke joints (an extremely inefficient method of consumption), you're probably never going to discover its psychedelic properties.

BTW, cannabis + laughing gas (N2O) is one of the craziest things in existence, and I highly recommend it for the adventurous.

 

[darklordsson]

A different point of view on how you see reality from a strong trip of dmt, could alter your way of thinking while smoking or ingesting anything else while not using dmt. Thought processes could become more complicated or simple. Ultimatly in my exp. of using dmt nothing really changed just the intensity every time i use dmt, which is random anyways. Just in how you look at it I guess. The question is, "How do you think its affecting you?"

Best wishes and good luck fellow traveler!

 

[AspiringExplorer]

Drugs do alter you neurologically from what i've heard. The same way SSRI's alter your inhibitors over a course of time,i'm pretty sure stronger psychedelics/hallucinogens can do so much faster, even in one dose i presume. I think this is where a lot of our positive/negative lasting effects come from. I think this is why Albert Hoffman referred to LSD as the "smart drug", because it can restructure you neurologically into making better connections between unrelated things, more open minded, etc. If what i said is true, which it could easily not be, then maybe this would explain a bit as to why you are having such adverse effects from marijuana?

 

[c0ma]

Drugs do alter you neurologically from what i've heard. The same way SSRI's alter your inhibitors over a course of time,i'm pretty sure stronger psychedelics/hallucinogens can do so much faster, even in one dose i presume. I think this is where a lot of our positive/negative lasting effects come from. I think this is why Albert Hoffman referred to LSD as the "smart drug", because it can restructure you neurologically into making better connections between unrelated things, more open minded, etc. If what i said is true, which it could easily not be, then maybe this would explain a bit as to why you are having such adverse effects from marijuana?

Since the experiences are so similar, just a diet version makes him think it's a side effect of the spice. He appreciates the diet version, because blasting his face off before sometimes left him in a hung over state that took a day or two to get over. Lower the dosage, the less of the hangover effect.

 

[Shanghigher]

BTW, cannabis + laughing gas (N2O) is one of the craziest things in existence, and I highly recommend it for the adventurous.

Ever tried N20 on lucy? Now that's an experience!

Back to the OP, I've pretty much quit drinking after smoking DMT for the first time about a month ago, so can't speak for the booze. I had a bit of champagne at a conference recently, and all I can say is that I had a good time. Nothing psychedelic though. Same with weed, but then I've been off and on weed for years now, so I'm guessing there's some mild tolerance to it by now!

However, I have noticed a couple of lingering side effects. First of all, the first blast of DMT for me was like seeing all of reality crumble so I could see all the parts that make it up, and ever since, I've had this feeling that just behind everything I look at is this amazing world just out of view in the corner of my eye. Like when I look at a monitor. The monitor is there and its not moving and I'm not tripping, but then I can almost sense what it's made of, like if I looked hard enough, I'd see it for what it actually is. Weird, but pleasurable. Seems to be diminishing somewhat now though.

The second thing is, as another poster mentioned, meditation. I've given it a few goes in the past, but have been weirdly drawn to it since doing the DMT. Last night, I was restless when I went to bed, so I thought "sod it, I'll give it a go" and it was a very pleasurable experience. I'm going to have a bit more of a read into it today.

 

[captive]

The second thing is, as another poster mentioned, meditation. I've given it a few goes in the past, but have been weirdly drawn to it since doing the DMT. Last night, I was restless when I went to bed, so I thought "sod it, I'll give it a go" and it was a very pleasurable experience. I'm going to have a bit more of a read into it today.

I have had this with meditation post psychedelic trip lasting years. I was meditating before ever taking psychedelics (something i did naturally). But after it has been much deeper and more intense. I have felt that my third eye has opened (something that i am sort of still skeptical about). But what happens is that i can see my entire environment in my mind when meditating. i cant tell if my eyes are open or closed. but it does not matter because it would make no difference. i can see everything. then after not using psychedelics for a year or so, this slowly fades away...

this effect is generally applied to all psychedelics - the definitely potentiate each other. Weed or hash easily sends me into hyperspace after dmt!

further to this reality also changes. or to me more accurate my perception of reality. this includes both what i literally see with my eyes as well as what i perceive and make sense of on a consciousness level. its like opening pandora's box if you let it...

 

[el pato]

My first time smoking cannabis, I was shot into space. I had been drinking a bit earlier that night and after the smoke, I slumped over in my chair and became a satellite orbiting earth and talking to god. It was an incredibly vivid experience and this was before any use of a traditional psychedelic. Nearly every time I smoke or eat the plant, I have some degree of hallucinogenic activity.
This is probably because of my low tolerance of a mildly psychedelic plant, but I also agree with AspiringExplorer in that any psychoactive substance can leave a few fingerprints on the brain.

 

[Al-Wasi]

A series of bad LSD trips changed my relationship with cannabis for nearly 15 years.

I had always loved cannabis and smoked daily for years. After multiple very intense dark trips on LSD cannabis started provoking terrible anxiety and paranoia. I left it Aline for years maybe do I g it once a year hoping I'd enjoy it as I once did but never happened.

Since finding DMT I've began smoking the herb again and while it still causes some paranoia and some self conscious thoughts I find if I smoke at night before getting in bed to watch TV I can enjoy it now.

So like many others psychedelic s have changed my relationship with pot. You have to realize these are truly powerful molecules that will alter your perception of reality to the point of not being able to consider it a human experience any longer

Most that have enough experience have gotten to the point where they thought they'd never return to normal again.

Tread carefully