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Post SWIM's Yeilds !

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As a noob, I was doing my extractions following Cyb's Max Ion Tek, 100g MHRB, with heptane (heating up when pulling). I was only getting 1% yields, and I thought it maybe was related to the bark or to using heptane. Far from the truth! Turns out a 1L vessel was way too small for 100g, and when extracting only 50g (from the same batch) I have gotten a 2.3% yield. So I got not only higher yield, but actually more total spice by using half the bark. I feel stupid now 🥴
 
blig-blug said:
As a noob, I was doing my extractions following Cyb's Max Ion Tek, 100g MHRB, with heptane (heating up when pulling). I was only getting 1% yields, and I thought it maybe was related to the bark or to using heptane. Far from the truth! Turns out a 1L vessel was way too small for 100g, and when extracting only 50g (from the same batch) I have gotten a 2.3% yield. So I got not only higher yield, but actually more total spice by using half the bark. I feel stupid now 🥴
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That's very interesting, any thoughts how the volume affects yield? Is it that things don't mix well or that it becmoes too concentrated the dmt doesn't migrate as easily into lye solution?
 
I think another factor contributing to it is that with too much MHRB the solution becomes much thicker, and it's likely that it mixes worse with the NPS. I have also observed that with 50g in 1L emulsions didn't happen, while they always happened to some extent with 100g, and the layers took much longer to settle.
 
As I understood, emulsions are more likely when the solution is not alkaline enough? I use 1L boro silicate flasks usually with 100g mhrb. I've experimented with 2L flask and 200g but found the yield did not justify the extra effort of working with a heavy and more dangerous amount of soup.

I'll try a 50g run next time with the same bark to see what happens
 
Voidmatrix said:
It's likely that there's less break down of the bark material allowing DMT to enter rhe aqueous solution. These processes aren't about weight but volume because a certain amount of volume is needed for everything to have the space to have the same reaction, in this case, break down of bark material.

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yes I think you're right the most likely culprit is inefficient break down of the bark, but It's probably more of a surface area/contact problem rather than volume, and yes a bigger volume would mean a larger surface area. for instance in a dry tek the volume is basically that of the bark material but there the concentrated strong base is well mixed with the bark powder so the whole mass is equally and efficiently broken down.

I can imagine 100g of bark powder sitting at the bottom of the a relatively narrow 1L bottle, the base attacks the top surface but the bottom part once reacted with the base present there it is not easily penetrated by more base to further brake down the material, and as it sits and settles and compacts, the problem becomes worse. so unless one is frequently mixing over a long period, the bottom part won't break down efficiently. and both frequent mixing and long periods can contribute to emulsions.
 
Sakkadelic said:
yes I think you're right the most likely culprit is inefficient break down of the bark, but It's probably more of a surface area/contact problem rather than volume, and yes a bigger volume would mean a larger surface area. for instance in a dry tek the volume is basically that of the bark material but there the concentrated strong base is well mixed with the bark powder so the whole mass is equally and efficiently broken down.

I can imagine 100g of bark powder sitting at the bottom of the a relatively narrow 1L bottle, the base attacks the top surface but the bottom part once reacted with the base present there it is not easily penetrated by more base to further brake down the material, and as it sits and settles and compacts, the problem becomes worse. so unless one is frequently mixing over a long period, the bottom part won't break down efficiently. and both frequent mixing and long periods can contribute to emulsions.
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Yep. Spot on. And when I mentioned volume it was for teks that usually use jars. Dry teks have some different parameters to get around some of what we're discussing, but I actually find dry teks to be less efficacious overall.

But the consideration is the same with volume and surface area. Kinda like a chemistry version of De Morgan's law.

Sakkadelic said:
Totally! and the potential for an emulsion is always there, once you agitate things hard enough it manifests and it's very hard to eliminate, but it can be worked around
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Heat heat and more heat lmfao

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blig-blug said:
Based on what I saw when emptying the bottle, there was no significant bark at the bottom, other than a few minor clumps. It seemed to be completely mixed with the base soup, but the soup was very very thick.
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yes I don't think there's a portion that is clumped and not receiving base, but when it's sitting, the bark falls to the bottom and the lower parts won't be attacked by the base efficiently. in your case it does seem the thick soup may also be preventing good mixing with NPS.

A 100%+ yield improvement by simply using less bark is hugely significant and I think it is important to try and understand what is going on, imo poor bark is the least likely cause of low yields, bark is a very precious resource and we need to make sure we are getting the most out of it.

For now it seems that the attractiveness of working with low volumes may significantly diminish yield
 
Sakkadelic said:
A 100%+ yield improvement by simply using less bark is hugely significant
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I agree! That's the positive way of looking at it. But taking into account that my original yield was poor, it would be more accurate to say that using too much bark reduced the yield by 50%.
Sakkadelic said:
bark is a very precious resource and we need to make sure we are getting the most out of it
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Yes, from now on if I want to do 100g I'm going to just use two 1L bottles. Lye and salt are much more expendable than bark.
 
Voidmatrix said:
That's why I use those 1.5L Ball jars

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Evening! i'm about to start an extraction and i've been using the same 1.5L ball jars as well. i've only done 100g extractions at a time until now and i was hoping to go up to 150g of bark this time around. any experience on that quantity still working in that size jar?
 
IceKoldpp said:
Evening! i'm about to start an extraction and i've been using the same 1.5L ball jars as well. i've only done 100g extractions at a time until now and i was hoping to go up to 150g of bark this time around. any experience on that quantity still working in that size jar?
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I can't imagine an extra 50g changing things too much, but as a general rule, the more plant matter you're working with, the less efficacious the extraction.

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So let me get this straight I’m a little confused , they did the pulls on the acidified purple liquid before adding lye then did more pulls
 
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