Psilocin extraction help

[downwardsfromzero]

Given the marvellous mushroom season some have been having, it seemed like a good idea for a wee bump over here.

So has this matter been dropped entirely? Having lost track over the busy summer, I'd none the less like to point out that enzymes don't cause proteins and polysaccharides to disappear entirely. Proteases will leave amino acids and oligopeptides knocking around and the polysaccharides will get broken down into smaller carbohydrates. This underlines what benzyme has said (repeatedly!) - separation chemistry is required for pure crystals.

On that note, here is a little attachment.

 

[nen888]

nifty attachment downwardsfromzero..thanks

on the still lingering matter of this thread's topic...it's still unclear to me whether pure crystals are entirely required (although this would obviously be advantageous), at least for some noticeable (vaporised) effects, as what i experienced years ago wasn't totally pure (was semi-crystal), and if in fact its the removal of either specifically protein or polysaccharide..

but also, i'm interested (based on a few factors i mentioned earlier) by what the bountifully knowledgable benzyme mentioned in another thread:

anionic psilocin (which is what you'll get if you basify to pH 10-12, net charge of -1)

this was in Recrystallizing Psilocybin

also, in that thread hermes111 mentioned some effect from a not completely purified extract:

"The smoked effects were most interesting. The bodyhigh was very similar to mushrooms. But the visual effects were something else entirely. Much closer to DMT than mushrooms, but still very different. Hard to describe, but the visuals were not in the usual symmetric & proportionally even grid pattern like mushrooms, but completely erratic. Much more chaotic, but still nice. Slow buildup after smoking, very constant effects with no discernible peak. Last everywhere from 20 to up to 30 minutes."

i haven't personally dropped this matter for many years, hoping a few more people will get to the holy grail...thanks for bump

 

[downwardsfromzero]

nifty attachment downwardsfromzero..thanks

Oh, I found it pretty easily when doing a search to work out what benz meant by "IEX"...

Thanks for the link, I always miss stuff during the summer while away on multiple jaunts.

The short duration in hermes' report sounds appealing, I don't have much time for the longer lasting stuff nowadays (nor even the short acting stuff, come to think of it) even though it genuinely does me good. One day, perhaps - like so many of the things here...

 

[1ce]

in the fungal body, it's likely zwitterionic...in this form, it will be bound to ribosomal proteins. yes, a change in pH will dislodge it from said proteins.. of course, proteins are large molecules, so separation against a stationary phase (chromatography) is suggested. small molecules, such as alkaloids, will elute first.

dcm has some miscibility with water, so it can pull a small amount of charged species. chloroform will pull less

I've often considered using dilute hcl to remove the proteins and maybe try separating them out in a fuge with zeolites, or zeolites and sand in a vac column.

Pretty much just grind in meoh/tartaric acid the dried fruit bodies with a rotorstator, 30mm aggregate. Then finish processing with cell disruptor. Filter, rotovap, and try for protein removal.

What are your thoughts?

 

[benzyme]

yes, sounds good.

grind in alcoholic tartaric acid, sonicate, filter, and process with basification, or run through strong cation exchange resin.
size exclusion resin may also work, just go gentle on the pH... elute with no lower than pH 2.

now that I think about it, centrifugation (if one has a centrifuge) would be a good way separate the structural proteins, after acidifying. they're large molecules that would pill at the bottom of the tube, and alks are small molecules that would be in solution.

 

[nen888]

^ hola benzyme..

and good to be reminded of centrifugal options..centrifuge was used to break emulations at ph11 (+/- 0.5,which was optimum) of acacia samples sixteen odd years ago when doing really careful analysis and multi alkaloid class/multi tryptamine crystallisation, in careful effort to not alter anything in the extraction through process, that i mentioned in research elsewhere..
keep on with the good chemistry and new frontierspeople...

 

[nen888]

..PS. i count about 10-12 positive vaporised reports, including own, i'm aware of..and yes duration 20-40 mins..stay well

 

[sbc1]

Hope this thread stays alive some great information, hopefully someone nails this and does a write up

 

[1ce]

I've got some 50ml centrifugal separatory funnels that might become useful. I've used them in the past for emulsions.

 

[staresatwalls]

hello everyone! i just finished catching up on this thread and otherwise looking into this some. i'm excited to earn a new respect for this molecule with a new ROA!!! I also have quite a few questions about solvents mostly as i'd like to try the hoffman method to the tee. so pardon me while i ask them all at once :want:

consider this one.
soak fruits a week in methanol.
filter.
evap do dust dry.
transfer the dust/ crust to a beaker with pure ice cold lighter fluid. ( 100 Ml)
mag stir and let settle. the fluid will pick up alot of fats and oils,
but lighter fluid wont really dissolve psil at all.
decant and evap.........

i'm hoping regular stirring and not mag stirring will suffice. i also loathe the idea of smoking something naphtha has evaporated onto. any suggestions for re-xing? i'm considering this and the hoffman method.

as far as securing chloroform, i found this link on how to make it from acetone and bleach. it would be affordable and i have a 1L glass sep funnel i've been dying to use.

How do I prepare chloroform at home?

Answer (1 of 13): I’m sorry, but I have to ask if perhaps the correct question back should be, sir, why would you want to prepare chloroform at home? If you mean to use it yourself as a sedative-hypnotic, you’re likely to kill yourself and even if you properly dose yourself, the hangover will be...

www.quora.com

do you think this quality of chloroform would work?

also, is heet brand gas antifreeze a good source of methanol?


oh and downardsfromzero, what is this fabled photocybin you speak of?

 

[sauSage]

also, is heet brand gas antifreeze a good source of methanol?

Don't use Heet. Lab grade methanol can be purchased very inexpensively.

 

[1ce]

also, is heet brand gas antifreeze a good source of methanol?

Don't use Heet. Lab grade methanol can be purchased very inexpensively.

Why not? I get my MeOH from washer fluid concentrate. There's really no simpler way for ,e to obtain it atm.

As long as you can clean jt up that's all thst matters.

 

[1ce]

hello everyone! i just finished catching up on this thread and otherwise looking into this some. i'm excited to earn a new respect for this molecule with a new ROA!!! I also have quite a few questions about solvents mostly as i'd like to try the hoffman method to the tee. so pardon me while i ask them all at once :want:

consider this one.
soak fruits a week in methanol.
filter.
evap do dust dry.
transfer the dust/ crust to a beaker with pure ice cold lighter fluid. ( 100 Ml)
mag stir and let settle. the fluid will pick up alot of fats and oils,
but lighter fluid wont really dissolve psil at all.
decant and evap.........

i'm hoping regular stirring and not mag stirring will suffice. i also loathe the idea of smoking something naphtha has evaporated onto. any suggestions for re-xing? i'm considering this and the hoffman method.

as far as securing chloroform, i found this link on how to make it from acetone and bleach. it would be affordable and i have a 1L glass sep funnel i've been dying to use.

How do I prepare chloroform at home?

Answer (1 of 13): I’m sorry, but I have to ask if perhaps the correct question back should be, sir, why would you want to prepare chloroform at home? If you mean to use it yourself as a sedative-hypnotic, you’re likely to kill yourself and even if you properly dose yourself, the hangover will be...

www.quora.com

do you think this quality of chloroform would work?

also, is heet brand gas antifreeze a good source of methanol?


oh and downardsfromzero, what is this fabled photocybin you speak of?

That reaction works well, but is exothermic. I usually make quite a bit of chloro in the winter because I can use my climate to keep it cool.

Else just pour the acetone into the bleach jug overnight, pour most of it off and collect the rest, you'll have a little bleach blob. Once you'vd obtained enough, wash and distill it.

I prefer hypochlorite powder over bleach (better stochiometry) but bleach has s;ways been there for me.

 

[staresatwalls]

..PS. i count about 10-12 positive vaporised reports, including own, i'm aware of..and yes duration 20-40 mins..stay well

From the Hoffman tek I'm assuming nen? Or did u say u don't remember?

I would distill my own clean chloroform but I have no still. I guess I'll try not to over pay online

 

[downwardsfromzero]

oh and downardsfromzero, what is this fabled photocybin you speak of?

Ummm... it was a joke (mostly) at the shroomery


Speaking of photodegradation, however, do bear in mind that commercial chloroform is stabilised (with 200 ppm of ethanol, IIRC) in order to prevent the accumulation of highly toxic phosgene (carbonyl chloride). Phosgene would theoretically screw with your psilocin, too - although that would be the least of your worries.

 

[staresatwalls]

So seeing as chloroform and naphtha are both non polar does anyone suspect that replacing chloroform with naphtha in the Hoffman tek will have the same results?

 

[benzyme]

probably not.
chloroform has a dipole moment, and thus will result in a qualitatively different product.
it was probably used due to the polar side group (OH/PO3H). I'd imagine naphtha would give lower yield, because it is more nonpolar.

 

[staresatwalls]

Thanks again for the info benzyme. Can you or anyone else think of a different possible solvent other than chloroform for the first step(s) of the hoffman tek? Chloroform isn't the cheapest thing in the world nor is it the easiest to acquire

 

[benzyme]

methylene chloride aka dichloromethane should be easier to acquire.

 

[Orion]

So much information in this thread. It's clear a lot of us have a strong desire to isolate the goodies from mushrooms. I can't shake the feeling that it should somehow be easier than it seems.

What about honey? It's well known that the goodies will migrate into honey after being immersed in it for some time. Could this not be used as part of a preparation for extraction? Perhaps using honey as a form of pre-filter for later cleanup of psilocin/psilocybin?
What about fatty acid oils like sunflower, walnut, linseed, etc ?

I once saw someone mention they experience less nausea from mushrooms by discarding the caps and only ingesting the stems. Could it be that most of the undesirable molecules are in the caps? Perhaps this is also worth a try in extractions ?