Psilocybin dose-dependently causes delayed, transient headaches in healthy volunteers

[stuartroelke]

Having now read the paper, it appears tha headache occurred at least sometimes even at the lowest dose in the study (5mg, standardised for bodyweight), and there appeared to be a correlation between dose size and both frequency and duration of headaches.

How does this measure up in comparison to your microdose?

Unfortunate, but also perhaps understandable, that there was no mention of controlling for coffee/caffeine intake in the study, although I've only skimmed the article so far and certainly haven't read the fine print!

That's exactly why I'm fascinated. I started inconsistently with 100mg of dry material, eventually moving toward a consistent schedule as the cognitive benefits became apparent. This is where the random headaches started. Then they gradually diminished over the course of a month and stopped completely before titrating to 200mg.

I haven't noticed any side effects since. Just some minor oddness when I first began integrating Hericium erinaceus extract into my daily routine.

 

[Transform]

That's exactly why I'm fascinated. I started inconsistently with 100mg of dry material, eventually moving toward a consistent schedule as the cognitive benefits became apparent. This is where the random headaches started. Then they gradually diminished over the course of a month and stopped completely before titrating to 200mg.

I haven't noticed any side effects since. Just some minor oddness when I first began integrating Hericium erinaceus extract into my daily routine.

Well, I'm both glad and equally as intrigued as you to hear that the headaches have cleared up on having increased the dose!

 

[doubledog]

I also was having headaches after the end of each mushroom experience. It was not very strong, but quite annoying. Then I started to use extracted caapi alkaloids before ingesting mushroom tea (of course my intention was to enjoy a synergy between these compounds) and headaches dissapeared completely.

 

[murklan]

I also was having headaches after the end of each mushroom experience. It was not very strong, but quite annoying. Then I started to use extracted caapi alkaloids before ingesting mushroom tea (of course my intention was to enjoy a synergy between these compounds) and headaches dissapeared completely.

I'm curious, what other effects did the caapi alkaloids have? And how much did you take, and if you might compare that to a amount of Syrian Rue, what might it equal to? I've had Syrian Rue with mushroom tea several times. I felt that the experience was more turned/tuned inwards then with mushroom alone.

 

[ommani]

I’ve had some wicked headaches from psilocybin, mescaline, and LSD, but not every time. In my experience, these headaches are unpredictable and can come with the territory.

Conversely, I’ve found psilocybin to be extremely helpful for alleviating headaches, particularly since I don’t like to use otc pain medications, and don’t have any at home.

Since before the start of Covid, I’ve been working in various human services settings with vulnerable populations and have been more or less required to stay up to date with the Covid vaccines, which I’ve done.

Getting those vaccinations caused extreme/debilitating headaches for me, which were entirely/almost entirely alleviated by low doses of cubensis mushrooms in the 2-400mg range.

About a year ago, I got a serious headache from mescaline/SP cactus. Taking a low dose of psilocybin alleviated the headache and substantially intensified the trip.

 

[doubledog]

I'm curious, what other effects did the caapi alkaloids have? And how much did you take, and if you might compare that to a amount of Syrian Rue, what might it equal to? I've had Syrian Rue with mushroom tea several times. I felt that the experience was more turned/tuned inwards then with mushroom alone.

It greatly improved the experience overall - first unpleasant phase of tension, fear and all that stuff at the beginning is shortened for me, visions are more colourful and complex, insights are more clear and prominent, body high substantially increased, effects on mood and ability to go deep into your mind/spirit is also enhanced. It also adds some positive mood baseline, everything is more joyfull, and at the same time more serious. It also adds some funny crazyness.

When I took just shrooms, I felt somehow drained after the experience (headaches are part of that feeling), when combined with caapi alks, it is never the case - I feel much better when it ends. Afterglow is also significantly better.

Overall it changes mushroom experience so much that I came to the conclusion that psilocin does not work properly without it. DMT does not work orally at all without harmaloids, and psilocin works only partially without them.
Ime psilohuasca is quite similar to ayahuasca, by comparing them it is quite clear what is the effect of caapi itself in the combination.

I take 20-25 mg of alkaloids sublingually (it is much more bioactive that way, has almost no taste and works very quickly) 10 minutes before ingesting mushroom lemon tea. I also adjust dose of shrooms to 2/3 of my normal dose.

I can not comment on syrian rue, never used it in combination with shrooms. I would also not use caapi or rue brew itself due to risk of nausea. I got more than enough nausea and puking from ayahuasca.

 

[isntme]

I also suffer from quite strong and dosage dependent headaches from mushrooms and lsd.
I did a cautios psilohuasca test recently with 30mg harmals and only 1g of B+ (i thought to start low as i'm typically quite sensitive). The trip was not strong, BUT the headaches which typicatypically start 8-12 hours after intake have been almost unbearable without ibu. I needed two. However i dislike taking painkillers after the experience.

So the initial hint towards 5htp was from 2014 - is there some more experinence in the meantine?
- does it help consistently?
- how much
- when to take?

I'd be quite thankful for advice as I'I'd like to try harmals +2g, but if the headache scales as usual, so x2, I would not do it.

 

[Transform]

I also suffer from quite strong and dosage dependent headaches from mushrooms and lsd.
I did a cautios psilohuasca test recently with 30mg harmals and only 1g of B+ (i thought to start low as i'm typically quite sensitive). The trip was not strong, BUT the headaches which typicatypically start 8-12 hours after intake have been almost unbearable without ibu. I needed two. However i dislike taking painkillers after the experience.

So the initial hint towards 5htp was from 2014 - is there some more experinence in the meantine?
- does it help consistently?
- how much
- when to take?

I'd be quite thankful for advice as I'I'd like to try harmals +2g, but if the headache scales as usual, so x2, I would not do it.

30 mg harmala isn't so much - arguably insufficient, even. Do you have any other prior experience with harmalas? You might want to try a suitable dose of those (assuming you're not using any other incompatible medication) and see how that works out, prior to trying again with that same increased dose of harmala, plus the original amount of shrooms.

The 5-HTP + melatonin scheme seems worth a try also.

About a year ago, I got a serious headache from mescaline/SP cactus. Taking a low dose of psilocybin alleviated the headache and substantially intensified the trip.

I wish I'd remembered reading this since, about a month after you posted, I got a hellish headache after chewing raw SP. I'll have some shrooms (and 5-HTP + melatonin) ready on back-up next time.

It also raises the question of whether mescaline would alleviate or exacerbate a psilocin-induced headache (assuming it's the psilocin and not some other shroom component).

Some species of panaeolus contain significant amounts of 5-HTP, with or without psiloc(yb)in. This raises the question of whether the psilocin-positive ones can be used without fear of subsequent headache, and similarly whether the non-psychedelic ones have medicinal potential as a treatment or preventative for this.

 

[ommani]

I wish I'd remembered reading this since, about a month after you posted, I got a hellish headache after chewing raw SP. I'll have some shrooms (and 5-HTP + melatonin) ready on back-up next time.

It also raises the question of whether mescaline would alleviate or exacerbate a psilocin-induced headache (assuming it's the psilocin and not some other shroom component).

Yes, the one time I tried it (around 500mg cubensis mushrooms), took me from an experience of excruciating pain to psychedelic bliss (I think the pain relief contributed to this blissful state).

Somehow, I doubt that mescaline would relive a psilocybin induced headache, but maybe.

Recently, I’ve been experimenting, sporadically, with a white willow bark extract for pain relief, which seems to work well. My guess is that it might work for alleviating psilocybin and/or mescaline induced headaches.

 

[Jamie01]

I wouldn’t dare trip these days without a backup nsaid for the headache after. On acid and mescaline especially it’s nearly a guarantee. Shrooms and DMT it can go either way.

 

[Transform]

Recently, I’ve been experimenting, sporadically, with a white willow bark extract for pain relief, which seems to work well. My guess is that it might work for alleviating psilocybin and/or mescaline induced headaches.

Noted. Yeah, that's the OG COX inhibitor, the grandaddy of ibuprofen. Fortunately, I have a bundle of white willow bark from a garden clearance, so that's going in the cactus brew arsenal from now on.

 

[isntme]

30 mg harmala isn't so much - arguably insufficient, even. Do you have any other prior experience with harmalas? You might want to try a suitable dose of those (assuming you're not using any other incompatible medication) and see how that works out, prior to trying again with that same increased dose of harmala, plus the original amount of shrooms.

The 5-HTP + melatonin scheme seems worth a try also.

The range for sublingual harmala extract reported in the Sublingual harmala dosage for vaporhuasca thread is 20-50mg freebase. I use 30mg with good success so far (vaporhuasca).
At least for me, the harmalas improved the trip quality, but not so much the strength (along the lines doubledog reported above), but ~ trippled the headache -> it was like after 3g of mushrooms.

Someone stated to take 5-htp right before the trip, but I think 5-htp with MAOI might not be the best idea.
Is there any experience how fast 5-htp is resorbed?
Harmalas have a half life of 1-3 hours, so I think taking it after 8 hours or so, before the headache starts could be worth a try.

 

[Transform]

Ah, sublingual. OK, of course!

Is there any experience how fast 5-htp is resorbed?

Excellent question, that'll likely be a matter of some literature searches unless some (@Sabnock1990?) can provide the information up front.

 

[blig-blug]

5-HTP seems to reach peak plasma concentration between 1.5-2h, according to the attached paper.

 

[stuartroelke]

Personally, I still haven’t discovered an adequate solution for headaches related to microdosing. I’ll feel tension on and off when I start back up after a long break, but—always within a week or two—it completely stops.

My panacea for all headaches (even expected ones caused by dehydration and / or stress) seems to be any amount of cannabis, and that carries over to microdosing. Though, I prefer to space them out to avoid becoming noticeably spacey

 

[isntme]

For certain reasons I microdose 10mg 1D-Lsd 3×per week since several years now (very consistently). I personally have no headache related to it.
But i suffer from migraines (currently ~ twice a year), so i might be sensitive to vasoconstriction and release)

 

[Transform]

For certain reasons I microdose 10mg 1D-Lsd 3×per week since several years now (very consistently). I personally have no headache related to it.
But i suffer from migraines (currently ~ twice a year), so i might be sensitive to vasoconstriction and release)

Have you read John C. Lilly's "The Centre of the Cyclone"? There he describes (among other things, such as inventing the sensory deprivation tank) how he seemingly permanently cured his migraines with considerably more than a micodose of LSD.

 

[isntme]

interesting. so cured like no more migraines, or stop each event?
I once tried Dmt once the migraine visuals started ('aura'). But nomally a double aspirine sublingual works well (the aura takes its course, but the following headache is greatly diminished). The earlier I take it the better. So the worst is when it starts during sleep.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Ime if one is wanting to take some 5-HTP with Harmalas in the mix, taking the 5-HTP exactly two hours prior to consuming Harmalas has done alright for me. Giving 5-HTP (or even L-Dopa) two full hours to kick in before taking Harmalas seems to be the way to go. If 5-HTP (or L-Dopa) are taken at the same time as Harmalas or 30 minutes to an hour into Harmalas, it has the chance of being potentiated by the gut's MAO-A inhibition and ime that didn't turn out well at least with 5-HTP and it felt like i consumed too much 5-HTP (i usually consumed around 100mgs, which with the MAO-A inhibition's potentiation was at least 200mgs, so doubled in potency) and got some like chest pain and such and it freaked me out. But, if you take 5-HTP a couple hours before the Harmalas, it can go ahead and get in the system without any potentiation and does absolutely fine then, no weird interactions noticed, no Serotonin Syndrome, no chest pain, no negative side-effects. Definitely let the 5-HTP get in the system first, then take the Harmalas, and it'll work well, same goes for L-Dopa.

You can probably also consume it like maybe 8 to 10 hours after Harmalas, as well, if you wanna try it after, by that time the MAO-A inhibition in the brain/liver should be dying down and gut MAO-A inhibition only lasts like an hour and a half so it'll be long gone by then and won't potentiate the 5-HTP via the gut.

 

[isntme]

did it (5-htp) help with post-trip headaches or why did you take it?