Psychic Abilities

[hrtsongmeditation]

I hate to quote McKenna, but his riff on Thomas the Doubter is an eloquent case for holding your own and not allowing your reason to sway in the wake of fantastical happenings.

I'm not aware of the quote to which you're referring. I'd love to hear it.

When weird shit happens, I always find it most useful to try and reasonable and somewhat objective about it. That's not to say that it's too easy to remain critical and reasonable while electrical devices are flicking on an off to the flux of my emotions, when I get up to retrieve my phone moments before a call comes in, or when my thoughts echo the words coming out of another's mouth seconds before they say them... but it's certainly an antidote for the mania that comes with over-analyzing these things

Agreed. I have never been shy about admitting the possibility that I am hallucinating and that certain events may be coincidence and only interpreted as psychic. Given the frequency of events and some with tangible outcomes I still believe in the validity of the experiences for the most part. And, fortunately, I've found enough other people over the years with similar experiences that I don't feel completely alone in the world.

But making outlandish claims or publicly attempting fantastical acts will make you the focus potentially unwanted or negative attention. If there's validity to your experience, then why bother proving yourself? Just go your way and do what you want to, and what you can...

Again, I agree. The counterpoint is by choosing to hide away I also miss out on this conversation with you. If I choose to give in to fear, no matter how rational that fear may be, I cut myself off from good and from bad both. If I choose fear I am, in effect, choosing loneliness. If I choose fear, I am prejudging people and not giving the chance to accept.

I have met plenty of people over the years who have felt a bit isolated due to having weird experiences and not really having anyone to talk about. I actually make it fairly obvious in my appearance that I am a "New Age" type person and that makes me safe for people who have had weirdness to come up and talk to me. There are some people that are just desperate for someone who they can share their experiences with and I help them out by just being myself out in the open. I help them and deal with my own loneliness at the same time.

That's part of why I use the analogy of a gay rights advocate, it fits well for me and my mindset.

To me it's worth the occasional judgmental person for all the good that I see. I get a lot more good conversations and polite curiosity than I do negativity. And every positive experience helps me to deal with the fear and doubt and push forward.

However you take it, there's no reason to feel alone because the way you experience the world seems so alien from those around you... Just interact with others according to what you have in common, and everything shakes out fine.

Sound advice. I agree that I should probably put less emphasis on this a lot of the time. What does it matter if random strangers believe? What does it matter if my family believes? There are plenty of other things to talk about and their inability to really accept one aspect of my life is not really as important as I have been making it.

 

[ajscent]

Yes I did mean Androcles... He's got such great words , really captivates me, great writer.

Yes that was the guy I thought would have been a good one to ask , but I guess he hasn't seen the post.

Right ! Fight ! Fight

No , first off I am massive true blood fan , and having magic powers reminds me of Sooki! She can read minds and stuff but cor her life is tricky :?:
You must be a sci fi fan like me ?

I read all your response and its always really hard to read something and fully understand it. You sound very smart person. And man it's so true about getting other people's opinions and bouncing yours off theirs. As you say perhaps you do have psychic abilities, I've never had any demonstrated to me , and I have tried to do it before , with no results. I think loads of people at some point or another have thought right I know this is possible, if I believe in it enough I will make the box move etc. I tried it and believed if I tried it hard enough it would work, but er nope ! I don't know what to believe about your crystal moment , your going to have to politely allow me to think it didn't really happen quite like that and it only appeared that way ( allow me that dude as otherwise I will lose my sanity :want: )

I don't think your schizo man but I do think your putting a lot of thought and energy into believes which lay on the fringes of society, ie I can see this stuff matters to you a lot and because it is unusual stuff it will perhaps make you feel a bit seperate from people. I guess the being guided by diff voices is going to make you question am I ok with this ? Is it genuine ? I think reading the accounts of the dmt journey with accounts of entities seems so fascinating and plausible , it's when in our everyday life's this experience continues it does make me wonder how much is made up by a persons mind. The mind is absolutely capable of dividing itself and making play friends. Again take me as just suggesting thisas I don't have the experience to be critical.

That's why I suggested Androcles , he was been around the block and seems like a nice guy.

Hey can I just pull you up on the first bit of your post as it struck me when I first read this bit " I need to connect with God and with the angels so that I can learn and grow; but, I'm not entirely sure I really want to learn and grow. "

Man it's such a big deal to do that , I really think it is. I'm fascinated by the people who take this on their life's. it's like "er I really dunno what to say" to someone who is genuine about something like that. It's a really big deal and don't feel like your being a coward for not doing it, ha maybe I'm a complete twit and actually it's the most natural connection and normality a person can ever do, still it does seem like kind of a big deal.

Right , I'm not sure what else to say really , my concern reading you was I trod a little along your lines , not exactly , I was looking for connection to something bigger until I realised I'm really not genuine , I'm ok with that , I know that it's questionable whether I ever will be able to ask myself the big deep questions , I just hope if I do I'm coming from a good place cause I know it's a big deal. Right I'm completely rambling , I hope you have managed to move a box or can swing a chandelier with thought since our last message ( I am joking ! But seriously it would be awesome ! But you have to allow me my skeptism - a while back I began thinking I wonder if the pyramids in Egypt used some magic mind power to lift those heavy blocks ! )

Ok over and out bruv

 

[hrtsongmeditation]

You must be a sci fi fan like me ?

Very much so, I love Sci-Fi and fantasy novels. I've actually tried a couple of times to write one of my own, but I keep getting stuck and have never finished one.

As you say perhaps you do have psychic abilities, I've never had any demonstrated to me , and I have tried to do it before , with no results. I think loads of people at some point or another have thought right I know this is possible, if I believe in it enough I will make the box move etc. I tried it and believed if I tried it hard enough it would work, but er nope ! I don't know what to believe about your crystal moment , your going to have to politely allow me to think it didn't really happen quite like that and it only appeared that way ( allow me that dude as otherwise I will lose my sanity :want: )

Not a problem, believe what you want to believe man. I actually realized a while ago that even if I do succeed there are always going to be people who just refuse to believe that it's real.

I could let scientists do an MRI on me while I'm doing it and get experts to swear it's real and there is always going to be someone claiming it's a hoax.

I don't think your schizo man but I do think your putting a lot of thought and energy into believes which lay on the fringes of society.

Unfortunately schizophrenia is pretty much defined as being unable to tell the difference between reality and imagination. It's real or I'm schizo. Perhaps harmlessly so, aside from the time and energy "wasted," but my options are reality and delusion.

I can see this stuff matters to you a lot and because it is unusual stuff it will perhaps make you feel a bit seperate from people.

Only if I let it. That's why I'm here talking.

Hey can I just pull you up on the first bit of your post as it struck me when I first read this bit " I need to connect with God and with the angels so that I can learn and grow; but, I'm not entirely sure I really want to learn and grow. "

Man it's such a big deal to do that , I really think it is. I'm fascinated by the people who take this on their life's. it's like "er I really dunno what to say" to someone who is genuine about something like that. It's a really big deal and don't feel like your being a coward for not doing it, ha maybe I'm a complete twit and actually it's the most natural connection and normality a person can ever do, still it does seem like kind of a big deal.

It's actually pretty simple logic to me. I don't really trust science all that much. Science does it's best, but we are inherently limited in our ability to see and understand the world. It is super easy to get sucked in by illusions and swear that you know the truth. Mostly I mean like "A flying machine is impossible" or "The world is flat." Who knows how much of what I think I know is complete and utter BS?

So, I need to connect to sources of knowledge greater than human. The only real obstacle is fear, since "hyperspace" is basically home for the soul. We all exist there connected to the infinite. It's just a question of letting go of your hold on "reality" which is a pretty terrifying thing to do, even if you do believe that "reality" is mostly a collection of illusions that your mind is holding on to.

Right , I'm not sure what else to say really , my concern reading you was I trod a little along your lines , not exactly , I was looking for connection to something bigger until I realised I'm really not genuine , I'm ok with that , I know that it's questionable whether I ever will be able to ask myself the big deep questions , I just hope if I do I'm coming from a good place cause I know it's a big deal. Right I'm completely rambling , I hope you have managed to move a box or can swing a chandelier with thought since our last message ( I am joking ! But seriously it would be awesome ! But you have to allow me my skeptism - a while back I began thinking I wonder if the pyramids in Egypt used some magic mind power to lift those heavy blocks ! ).

To me one of the big questions is how many people would have succeeded if they hadn't given up and become convinced that TK is impossible. Here's the thing, I don't really think I'm particularly special. I've met lots of people with some degree of ability.

Really, the only thing that sets me apart from them is sheer stubbornness and unwillingness to let a little thing like perfectly rational fears and common sense get in the way of what I know is true.

I may be afraid, but I will not bow to fear. Screw fear. I will never give up.

 

[ajscent]

Yes big sci fi fan here also , man you name it i have seen it.

Just quicky from me , dude do you exercise much ? I've gotta say as a non exerciser I am mega converted , like five to six days a week in the gym , keeps you very grounded. Been doing it for a year now , before I often felt down , now life is just so much easier , I swear I would've had anti deps if I hadn't taken up exercise as a daily routine . One day weighs, one day cardio rotated , very yin yang thing. Makes you very grounded , sweat is great thing and I hand on heart promise you it really does elevate depression massively , it can be raining outside and the amount of endorphins you feel are really so good for you. Very random thing I know but just thought it may really help you bruv , may even super charge your efforts with the telekanisis , who knows. I'm such a late in life convert to exercise. I'm self employed so am able to go everyday , even if its only 30mins ot running or light weights its massive thing to do for your endorphins and gland systems, really regulates your balance of hormones.

Ok mad one from me , and just a random thought , what sci fi are you into ? World war z was such a flop ! Big walking dead fan. Babylon 5 ?

 

[hrtsongmeditation]

Yeah, I do exercise every day, at least an hour. A lot of the time I'll do my affirmations in time with my breathing as I exercise. I know exactly what you mean about the endorphins from exercise helping to balance emotions.

Actually, I tend to avoid watching TV as I exercise to focus more on my body and there have been times when I manage to fit in 2 or 3 hrs of exercise and the runners high goes deep enough that I actually start to get visuals. I wish I had the time to do that every day, it'd be really great to set up a dark room to exercise in and get a strobe light that goes in time with music; I'm pretty sure that would make the visuals more frequent.

And I agree that the exercise probably helps. Not only does it help with focus and concentration and help balance emotions, exercise and meditation both promote the growth of new brain cells.

*

I do tend to enjoy most sci-fi. Did you ever see The Dresden Files when it came out on the Sci-Fi Channel? The book series of that is awesome and is probably my favorite.

 

[ajscent]

Cool man , I'm so new to exercise , my entire life I haven't bothered , now I love it . Was hard at first , lost two stone from 13 to 11 , my diet was so rubbish but within a year it's been fun and find it so good for me, wish I had gone to gym always , still it's good that I've discovered it now. Good diet now and loads of gym. Dude strobe light whilst exercising ? are you serious ? Ha ! I would have to work up to that. I havnt seen Dresden files , will check it out . Just watching wolverine at mo. pretty cool film. And .... No doubt a lotta telekanisis ! Well not sure cause wolverine doesn't have that only the blades , but sure some of his nemesis will

 

[hrtsongmeditation]

One thing I have had to do, that I consider essential to my long-term goal is letting go of all the ego-centered reasons that I wanted TK and replacing them with selfless reasons.

I have actually done a pretty thorough overhaul of my personality.

I bring this up because you mentioned earlier that your previous attempts hadn't been sincere. I recommend that you not view that as something static. There is no aspect of your personality that cannot be changed. In fact, your mind is constantly in flux and is really a bad place to focus your sense of identity. It could be said that every day when you fall asleep you "die" and are reborn, new and slightly different every morning. That's a big part of why so many people teach that ego is illusion.

The body is also continually in flux. At no 2 moments in your life is your biochemical make-up exactly the same. Again, it's a bad idea to over-identify with your body.

Once you accept that you are not your thoughts, that patterns of thought and feeling have very little to do with you, they become much easier to modify into more constructive and beneficial patterns of thought and feeling. This is what I believe to be "ego death." It's not really a thing to be afraid of. Fear is just clinging to an illusion.

I think enlightenment is largely shifting your sense of identity to The Eternal Light within. I think "enlightenment" is when your sense of identity merges with The Creator, The Source, God and you recognize that way down deep that who you are, who you have always been, and that that's who everyone is (whether they realize it or not), and then integrate that reality into your day to day life.

And, since in a very real way God is Love, you become the living embodiment of Divine Love; or, perhaps recognize that's what you have always been and only imagined that you were your body or mind.

Ultimately, I think this transition in self perception is essential to my goal of mastering TK.

But, I find myself wondering why you (or anybody really) wouldn't want that? Do you perhaps have a different mental picture of what enlightenment is? What exactly did you mean by "not sincere"?

 

[ajscent]

Interesting thoughts there but they are just a bit too "big" for me. I mean just kind of complex and I get what your saying but I'm couldn't hold on to those thoughts as a way of thinking. I totally get its very intelligent stuff though.
About being sincere , I guess I just mean if I was sincere , it really isn't hard to contact all that stuff your talking about , and things aren't so complex , you don't have to meditate , tell yourself off etc but u know things do come at a price. For me I'm not looking for enlightenment. I feel like it would be a burden to be honest . I do have an interest in it all but I do know that if I am really not keen on it then there is no point in trying something like that. Do love the dmt experience stories here as they are so amazing , but it's not something I've done.
I can't explain what enlightenment is to you as I'm in no way enlightened, not even the slightest bit dude , I've read various cryptic things about it all , all shrouded in poetic licence which makes me v suspicious. I do really like the accounts here as I like the , omg I can't believe this , omg ... It does feel very authentic rather than the tedious yoga master or tedious zen searcher who in my eyes anyway just ain't doing it.

I'm gonna throw a spanner in your works ... So if you were to become enlightened , which presumably would enolve the death of your ego , a connection to a deeper awareness which would take life direction from the source which would no longer choose whats right or wrong according to your background , it would be like taking direction from a special source regardless of your own wants or needs. Ie a very main component would be that your mind would often be emersed in silence. Not all the time but for some periods your mind would be without thought.

So if you maintained this kind of state of mind how are you going to fit in these telekanisis powers ? Being engulfed by the source m timelessness or whatever simply will have absolutely no interest in you moving a cardboard box up and down. The majesty of being contacted by silence i promise you would be so mind shatteringly intense if you were to maintain that state on a day to day basis telekanisis would not be of interest to that state of mind. You've seen on here how affected people are by a moment of contact with silence , it feels endless and just a revelation. Imagine living with that for 2/3 hours a day , which is prob what a so called enlightened person does, it must be v extreme , I really think those people just don't get a chance to consider what telekanisis is , it's just not relevant at that point . That's my thoughts on it , but seriously I don't know much on it all man.

By way wolverine is good ! Deffo a cool sci fi

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

Assuming that the enlightened mind is at all "immersed in silence" is about as absurd as thinking that death is an endless darkness and emptiness that must be endured. There is no burden and no sacrifice of will, but rather a relief from burden and the primacy of will. The only profound special source (other than what imaginary constructs one chooses to create and entertain) is the world around us and our relation to it. The idea that the ego must "die" is a myth spread by people who choose seek endlessly rather than look the truth in the face. The ego must be understood and cooperated with, and taught to cooperate with the rest of the world. It is nothing more than a necessary tool with the potential to cause harm, like any part of ourselves.

 

[ajscent]

I know dude , I really havnt got clue what I am talking about to be honest. It's so funny as whilst its great to try and talk about this deep stuff I have to put my hand on heart and say I really don't know much , it's really futile for me to try and talk over these big subjects , as I just don't have the experience first hand .

 

[hrtsongmeditation]

I know dude , I really havnt got clue what I am talking about to be honest. It's so funny as whilst its great to try and talk about this deep stuff I have to put my hand on heart and say I really don't know much , it's really futile for me to try and talk over these big subjects , as I just don't have the experience first hand .

Like I said, I'm pretty sure "ego death" is just recognizing that ego is itself an illusion because mind and body are continually changing. Accepting this truth makes it a whole heck of a lot easier to break bad habits and instill good ones. It makes you more flexible and adaptable.

It's an important step when you no longer identify with your own emotions. No more "I am angry" and more "I am experiencing anger" by detaching you don't get swept up in it and can just let it fade without giving into it.

It's always important that we define our terms carefully to prevent misunderstandings. For most people the most useful definition of enlightenment is growing in love and learning to live a balanced, harmonious life. If you grow in love you will have greater peace and joy in your life. With this definition enlightenment is a lot like health. You do a lot of things to maintain health, but there's not "Aha. I have achieved health."

So, we seek enlightenment the same way we seek strength, health, knowledge or any other thing.

Hopefully nothing too abstract there

And I think you've confirmed the point I was making, which is that you don't understand what enlightenment actually is well enough and so shy away from what you imagine it to be.

What I was saying is that a highly enlightened person is the living embodiment of divine love. Now, as I grow in love and light my priorities may well shift; but, I seek TK for loving reasons so the power of divine love may well assist me. At least that's what the voices in my head tell me and I'm pretty sure that the voices are my own God Self and guardian angels, so I tend to trust them.

 

[ajscent]

No nothing to abstract there. All wise words and good stuff.

I'm still going to need to see this telekanisis though before I become a believer ;-)

I'm not sure I'm on a path , got a massive interest in it all , but I'm kind of ok to be a dickhead too , not really into shaping myself into love and light over time. I think if by some miracle it comes knocking at my door then sure I will bowled over but there's just such a danger following a process where an outcome is hoped for.

For me personally I know for my state of mind it would cause me to be delusional. And full of anxiety. I have tried to "open up" before and it wasn't successful period , I know your gonna say try harder , give it time , but I'm gonna answer look I'm just not sincere. And I'm totally cool with that cause I know that if I was sincere then tonight or last night I would warmly go to that place. No difficult path , no head fk stuff I would do it, but I just really do feel there's a very real cost to it all. And not one I'm willing to trade, not presently anyway. I prob never will. I like the whole dmt saga story because even if your unwilling like me it's very likely to push down that wall. Amazing.

Gonna check out that Dresden files tommo man , wolverine was pretty cool , u may like it.

Have good eve man

 

[hrtsongmeditation]

I get it man. And no, I'm not going to push you. There's no upside for either of us.

And I don't blame you for wanting to see TK before you believe. I wouldn't trust some random guy I just started talking to on the internet either.

If you'd like I'll try and explain my picture of enlightenment a little better and why it's a desirable thing; but, it has you be your choice. If I try to shove my view of the world down your throat it's ego, which is what I'm working pretty hard to beat.

Now, since you're here on this forum, I think it's safe to assume that if nothing else you're curious about other people's systems of belief and how they view the world; so, I'm going to assume a "yes" unless you say otherwise.

***For me personally I know for my state of mind it would cause me to be delusional. And full of anxiety. ***

Enlightenment is, among other things, freedom from illusion and delusion. Now, that said, some of the truths that get revealed can be a bit difficult to integrate. For example, I have no idea how much of what I believe to be true is complete and utter BS. No one does.

The difficulty doesn't really come from the truth itself, it comes from the ego fighting the truth. The ego gets off on feeling superior; but, this feeling of superiority gets in the way of truth and wisdom. Let's use me as an example. If TK is not real and I am in reality deluded, then my best course of action is to walk away and abandon my quest.

If I was more in the thrall of ego, I would have gotten upset at the idea that TK is impossible. I wouldn't be able to take criticism and that you really were coming from a place of sincere concern would have been irrelevant. Ego keeps us from being objective and thinking things through. Ego puts emotion above rationality, above truth and wisdom, and this is just a bad idea. Ego would have said "Oh no! Someone doesn't respect me!" and started freaking out; where the truth is that you being honest and sincere actually is more respectful, even if you don't agree.

So, in this case, freedom from ego means that I don't buy into the delusion that I need people to believe me. If what I'm doing is based on truth, you're agreement is irrelevant. The truth is what it is regardless of who believes it.

I gain nothing by fighting the truth. People only gain suffering when they fight reality. That is a good chunk of the peace of enlightenment, no longer fighting to cling to your worldview when you come across evidence that you're wrong. No longer resisting change when you need to adapt to a new situation.

When you seek enlightenment what you give up is ego; which is a burden that brings only suffering into your life. Ego doesn't want you to believe that it's a burden, but it is. Ego is a liar and not to be trusted.

Now, regardless of whether TK is real or not, the thing in your mind that tells you "Don't make me believe. I can't handle that." is ego. If it turns out that TK is real all you lose is an old perception of reality. All it means is that you see more truth than that you have seen before. The lie that ego is telling you is that it's a big deal. It's not.

The lie is that you can't handle it. You can.

So what if I master TK? How much does that impact you? How much does that affect your life? What do you lose if it is true?

Let's pick a more "mundane" situation. For example, a cheating girlfriend. Ego may say "I can't handle being alone. I don't want to know." But, again, this is a lie. I don't care who you are, it is a figment of the imagination that you need another person to validate you. This is not love, not of them and not of yourself. It is better to be alone than with someone who doesn't really love you. If you listen to ego in this situation you will suffer for it. If you listen to ego you will be fighting the truth the whole time instead of dealing with the bad situation. And, by clinging to the cheating girlfriend, you deprive yourself of the freedom to find a new, more loving companion.

Enlightenment is letting go of all the anxiety that is holding you back. This is why I say that you're anxiety is based a false picture of enlightenment. Anxiety isn't part of enlightenment, anxiety is ego resisting enlightenment. Anxiety is what you are overcoming.

Enlightenment is calm and peaceful and able to act.

Truthfully, I suspect that you're underestimating how enlightened you already are.

 

[ajscent]

Hi dude , just read your reply , lots to think over in your post , I think I will have to read it a couple more times to fully take it in though

Lets not get to hung up on the TK point , as I know your thinking over loads of interesting vibrant concepts , and whilst I'm not a TK believer it's not cool for me to keep questioning it. I would as you point out be completely freaked out if someone did TK on me , as in I walked in my girlfriends lounge and she had a glass floating in the air , of course ! If its part of your journey then I really do hope you get some encouraging results , and if not then look at all the amazing stuff you've learnt along the way , but honesty would be v happy to see it work for you.

I'll have to read over your post again, lots of interesting stuff , it's always hard to take in someone else's viewpoint , and I am afraid I am a bit of a narrow minded person in some ways as I do sometimes struggle to fully understand where someone's coming from.

It's interesting talking about enlightenment , I'm not sure that I am searching for anything as such at the moment. Kind of just trying to be ok with things as they are, and I'm not to keen on separating my ego from my sense of self and giving it a battering. My ego does stop me walking out into a big busy road , yes it may get full of fanticiful ideas , mainly from media and stuff but it does feel somewhat needed. I'm not sure what to make of everything you say, it's all well thought out stuff , I'm pretty sure we are both sat on the same fence looking at the same place imagining we are coming from diff places when it's surprisingly similar.

Ok long day here , will have another read tommo , have good one

 

[hrtsongmeditation]

I'm busting up laughing right now.

***My ego does stop me walking out into a big busy road***

The loss of fear that comes with enlightenment does not mean you become careless. Just because I tend to self-identify with my soul doesn't mean I don't value my body. My body is a valuable tool that allows me to interact with the world. I love the world and I love my body. I just don't see any reason to get freaked out by the fact that that it's fragile, mortal and will eventually die.

In fact, the more I identify with my soul, the more I am able to love and appreciate my body. I no longer resent the weakness of my body because I don't view myself as mortal.

It'd be bloody inconvenient to lose my body and I will not deliberately do anything to endanger it. It'd be really tough on my wife and little boy if nothing else.

One of the illusions that you end up giving up as part of enlightenment is that you need fear to protect you. Do stress and worry actually do a thing to improve your life? They're good at convincing people that they're needed; but, worrying about a thing has never prevented it.

Fear and worry cut people off from the joy of living.

Fear is an emotion. My rational mind does a perfectly fine job of keeping my body safe without fear getting involved.

***I'm not to keen on separating my ego from my sense of self and giving it a battering***

Ego and sense of self are synonymous.

And I'm not suggesting that anyone should give up their sense of self. Maybe loosen their grip on it a little, but not give it up completely. I view myself as part of the universe and not separate from it; but, that's just reality. If I didn't continually get food, water and air my body would die. I am part of nature, not apart from it. Everyone is whether they choose to acknowledge the Oneness of all things or not.

I am also suggesting that it's wise to self identify with your soul instead of your body or your mind. There's a lot of peace that comes with that.

Also, I believe that the fundamental energy of the universe that all matter arises from is love. So, I will sometimes shift my sense of self to that level and recognize that I am love. E=MC2. If E=Love then all matter is composed of love. If all matter is love, then I am composed of love. I am the living embodiment of love and light; and you are too. Everyone is.

It's a really awesome feeling if you can accept and believe that. And, with practice you can tune into that feeling any time. You learn to just relax and enjoy the sensation that comes with the deep intuitive knowledge that you are love.

That is enlightenment.

 

[ajscent]

Dude that's all very complex stuff , I think for now my feeling right now is I'm not on a quest for enlightenment , and really have no clue what enlightenment is. Sure I've read descriptions similar to what our saying and also cryptic eastern ones. I really feel like it doesn't hold any weight for me chasing after these things. There are these big experiences to be had , many of them documented on here , a sense of wholeness being the one that's often recounted. The more I think of it , I think it's a red herring , this chasing after cosmic oneness, and these descriptions of oneness. It's possibly just a side effect and it's relevance has little bearing on things, of course it's over whelming and ecstatic , but my thoughts are its a secondary experience and if it happens that's cool but it's not something I'm keen to chase.

We are going to have to disagree on this separating "ego" from your sense of self and this imaginary higher self you are imaging. I wish you luck with it but from where I'm standing it sounds like a classic case of the very thing your trying to avoid , the ego, has made a division in itself with an imaginary higher self which is persecuting the ego. It's something that will exhaust you but I think maybe it's necessary to do till you see that god that's a waste of time and all these cryptic analysis of the self are also.

The imagined idea that there's somehow a complex war with an ego which doesn't want to merge with oneness is a just a way of avoiding the much more simple fact you don't want oneness. There's no need to do meditation and all this stuff , it's a complex system of avoiding the bigger issue of actually not wanting any of it even though constantly telling yourself your on this road to enlightenment.

A great saying is truth is a path less land. I really think you imagine your going to get some big reward from trying to become enlightened. After reading your post it's still no clearer in my mind what enlightenment is. It sounds like some jumbled up reasoning which sounds like many other people searching.

I really have no idea what enlightenment is and the idea of bright lights and ecstasy sounds like a massive red herring to me. The end of suffering also sounds massively wrong , if anything it would be more likely you would carry the entire weight of the worlds suffering on your shoulders

 

[hrtsongmeditation]

A great saying is truth is a path less land. I really think you imagine your going to get some big reward from trying to become enlightened. After reading your post it's still no clearer in my mind what enlightenment is. It sounds like some jumbled up reasoning which sounds like many other people searching.

I really have no idea what enlightenment is and the idea of bright lights and ecstasy sounds like a massive red herring to me. The end of suffering also sounds massively wrong , if anything it would be more likely you would carry the entire weight of the worlds suffering on your shoulders

I'm not sure whether my description is poor or whether you are still holding on to ideas that you've seen elsewhere.

As far as I'm concerned (which is not always the consensus opinion) emotional maturity and enlightenment are often synonymous. (That said, I tend to use enlightenment in several related ways, which is probably part of the confusion.) If I'm talking an end of suffering I mostly mean "Get over it, things are what they are." I mean "Why worry about things that you can't control?"

A good example is our discussion right here, I'm not emotionally invested in convincing you one way or another. I actually just enjoy the debate and care very little about the outcome. Because I don't care about the outcome (which involves your will and is therefore something I cannot control) I am at peace regardless and just able to enjoy the discussion.

I think for now my feeling right now is I'm not on a quest for enlightenment , and really have no clue what enlightenment is

You have made it clear that you have no interest in pursuing enlightenment at the moment and I respect that. I'm not going to try and push you. I don't think it would do any good even if I did, because it's something you have to be sincere about and really care about.

But, I promise you that there are at least aspects of it that are real and of immense value to people. As I go deeper and connect to my soul, as I have out of body experiences and integrate past life memories, I no longer fear death the way that I used to. I used to get really depressed every time I left for work because of the reality that any day could be the last time I see my wife. I don't know that I won't die in an accident and I don't know that she won't either. I'm not good at pretending things away.

It's not super complex when I say that we are all a part of the world, that we are all a part of society and that things break down when people are too selfish. When people focus their time and energy on themselves and ignore their responsibility to the world it creates imbalances. Everyone suffers when people choose selfishness.

You're right that enlightenment carries with it a sense of personal responsibility to make the world a better place; but, it also brings the humility to know that you can't fix everything on your own and the wisdom not to beat yourself up over the fact that you can't always solve everybody's problems.

And I say this from personal experience, not from dogma. My time meditating has made me a better, more mature, more kind, compassionate and loving individual; and, it has helped me to find peace in situations that I used to find intolerable.

I have learned that there is no peace to be found in running away from Truth and running away from responsibility. The problems continue to exist and often get worse. I am so much happier since I quit the "somebody should do something about that" BS and just got up and started doing things myself.

 

[ajscent]

Hi man , thanks for your post. This is an epic convo ;-) thanks for all the stuff you have spoke about. I really think it's one of these posts where I really will have to read it all again at some point. I am just finding my feet with all this stuff , it's really interesting for us to speak, and to find one day I think one way and another day another way. Pretty clear I don't have a clear direction , however it's nice to talk on this important topic, sorry if my last post was insulting in any way. Sometimes I speak thinking I'm correct and clearly I am not. Going back a couple of posts I said there's no point trying for enlightenment. Very typical me , a very final assessment of the concept of enlightenment, and I don't have the weight of experience to say things with finality.

Thanks for posting with me as its given me lots to think about. I've enjoyed reasoning out my own opinions , and sometimes writting them down like this gives me a clearer idea of where my heads at with all this stuff.

Hope life is going well today and you have good day, cheers dude.

 

[hrtsongmeditation]

Pretty clear I don't have a clear direction , however it's nice to talk on this important topic, sorry if my last post was insulting in any way. Sometimes I speak thinking I'm correct and clearly I am not. Going back a couple of posts I said there's no point trying for enlightenment. Very typical me , a very final assessment of the concept of enlightenment, and I don't have the weight of experience to say things with finality.

I can't tell you how glad I am that you figured that out on your own and I didn't have to say it.

Here's how I look at things and why I'm still talking: I can't tell you what to do with your life and won't try; but, since you have admitted ignorance as to what enlightenment is I'm going to do my best to help you make an informed decision. I'll share my thoughts and feelings and personal experiences so that you can make a choice to pursue it or not with eyes wide open. Also, it helps me to deal with my own fear and doubt to go over my reasons again. By sharing my reasoning with you I re-affirm my own commitment and it helps me to go forward.

I totally get where you're coming from. Like I said when I started the thread, one of the biggest issues that any of us have to deal with is our own fear getting in our way. Is it real or am I going crazy? The thing is that the part of the mind that experiences fear isn't really trying to get in the way, it's trying to protect you; which can make it one heck of an obstacle. Just remember that the fear parts of the brain are ancient, animalistic and not terribly wise. They do their best, but they're not always the best at handling the intricacies of modern life. They are designed to jump to conclusions and make snap decisions, which is important in the wild, it can literally save your life in dealing with a predator; but, they often get in the way of higher judgment and rational thought.

Psychological defense mechanisms, particularly denial, are a pain in the butt to deal with. The ability people have to lie to themselves and run away from what they know deep down to be true is an obstacle all of us have to deal with. Maybe when your hear someone say "transcending ego" think "overcoming their own psychological defense mechanisms." It's a pretty good definition.

Let me give a more "normal" example of what I mean. Say someone is a talented musician and wants to try and go pro. There are an awful lot of people competing for relatively few jobs. It can be a really hard path to follow and there is literally no one who isn't going to run into failure of some kind or another and wonder if they should just give up. Holding on to a dream in the face of reason (or what seems to be reason anyway) is not an easy thing to do.

Part of the answer is that reason isn't always truth. One failure, or even a hundred failures, do not mean that you should give up. You can fail 100 times and succeed on the next. Just because things aren't easy doesn't mean that they're impossible.

Now, if nothing else, I promise that meditation can help with that kind of thing. You can train yourself to effectively deal with negative emotions. You can train yourself to focus on your goal and put the other thoughts and feelings out of your head.

Also, it's worth mentioning here that meditation is a lot like exercise in that the benefits are cumulative and that the sooner you start the farther you will go.

From what you've said I really would recommend that you think of meditation just like exercise, at least for the moment. Let go of all your thoughts and feelings about pursuing enlightenment. If there is such a thing as enlightenment, that's great; but there is no need to chase it. It's actually counterproductive to chase it. It's best to just focus on personal growth and development, the progressive insights and realizations that meditation brings. It's about growing in love and wisdom. It's learning to love life regardless and not getting hung up on the things that you want and cannot have. It's about cultivating a more positive attitude and finding the joy that comes along with it.

 

[ajscent]

Great post man ! touché to you

Spot on stuff and actually I can relate to everything you say, great sentences

You intuitavily gave a good reference with the music analogy as that has been my career for a long time.

I didn't give up when I am pretty sure people said I was nuts and now do it for lots of TV shows which is cool , but
means absolutely nothing , but keeps me out of having to do a 9-5.

I agree that meditation maybe useful , I'm not sure. Perhaps it's something I will gradually do. I had a great feeling after
Cardio at gym today , just a proper let go of wanting anything , domt wanna become anyone special , nor impress people ,
Happy with the little I got. Was nice and for me maybe better than meditation , I can't help but feel with a regular meditation
That at the end of each sitting I would always go 'well that was pleasant but it didn't show me timelessness".

Which is ultimately what I would be seeking . I think for me , it's the whole issue of a movement seperate , distinctly seperate from thought is something to ponder over at the moment. I think it's cool to try and think things through as I get all this info about being a silent observer , which is a huge thing , but it's not something I am capable of , at least not today anyway.

Your right saying not to seek enlightenment, I can't help but feel I am very lucky to have running water and a loo and central heating , lots of people have mega poverty, I am not sure what draws a person towards timelessness other than the idea of its
Going to be amazing . There are tons of alluring accounts here , but the problem to me with it is it may begin as a very genuine thing then just turn into a convenient buzz to top up my life and for me that's just asking for problems.

Ok waffling now . Hope all good ! It's weekend , raining outside , I'm in the UK , whereabouts are you ?