Response to another thread that was removed by the mods

[69ron]

This is a response to those in another thread I was banned from. Apparent the mods did not like my point of view about psychedelic use being for everyone. That's fine, but I had this to say about some of the things others posted in that thread and was about to post it before getting banned. I've removed the section called "PSYCHEDELICS ARE FOR EVERYONE" from this post. I believe that's what got me banned. That's fine. Leary got similar heat for saying the same thing. I won't repeat that on the forum if that is a taboo topic for the forum. Anyway, this is my last post for that thread:

THE SUBJECT OF AGE
I have three children. I am one of the oldest members of this forum. I think there are just a few older than I am here, judging by the poll taken a while ago.

Age means little though. You can’t judge someone based on their age. My neighbor is older than I am and he’s not the smartest guy. A small 11 year old can be extremely intelligent, but lack wisdom. A 90 year old can have a lot of wisdom, but use it unintelligently.

As you age your mind and body slowly deteriorates. I can already feel the effects of age setting in. I can’t hear as good as I used to and my body is not as agile as it once was. Getting older is not what it’s cracked up to be. You gain experience in life, but lose your ability to experience it from your eyes, nose, ears, taste bugs, all aging.

As you age you get more set in your ways. I can feel this happening to me, especially in certain areas.

While I'm older than about 90% of the users on this forum, that means little in regards to this argument. I felt the same about this subject at the age 16 as I do now. My views on this subject are backed with more experience, but are essentially the same. As with Timothy Leary, his views on the matter never swayed, and nor will my own, unless there is new information available that I have not seen yet.

While I'm old on the outside, I don't feel old on the inside. On the inside I still feel like a child. I feel youthful. I still feel excited about life.

What I dislike about all forums is when people say things like, "he must be younger than me, and that's why he thinks what he does". This is a character attack. It is itself childish. You have no idea how old I am. I have posted it anyway on any forum. If you think I'm an 11 year old, then fine. If you think I'm 99 then fine. I don't care either way. But to use age to insult a person or attempt to undermine their argument, is in poor taste. I think most people would agree with that.

You will never hear me say something like, "You don't know what you're talking about. I think you're just a kid pretending to be an adult." I never use that to strengthen an argument. It is just inflammatory, and that's all. It's in poor taste.

To his dying day, Timothy Leary said the same things I am saying now. So age has nothing to do with this argument.

 

[endlessness]

I dont think you were banned from a thread ron, it seems the thread was removed for everyone because it was an unnecessary flame fight.. The mods are not on a cruzade after you ron

 

[Infundibulum]

69ron yes, as endlessness said you were not banned the whole topic was moved.

As for this thread - 69ron gave a response re his age argument, so case closed. Things seem fairly much sorted now and I expect the nexus not to give tempered responses onto this thread.

 

[q21q21]

Not sure which thread you're talking about. I'd like to read it though.

It is funny that someone would claim you are a young kid, haha

 

[The Traveler]

69ron,

Your were not banned from that thread but I moved it to another (secure) place. At the moment I moved that thread, you were probably typing up a reply, then when you hit the post button you got an "access denied" message (since it has been moved to an restricted area).

I moved that topic since it derailed into a fight on many fronts, it also had not much more in common with the original question.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[maxzar100]

yeah it needed to be done, it was getting kind of ridiculous. The nexus seems to be having a lot of problems with this kind of junk lately.

 

[joebono]

69ron, I enjoyed reading your posts in the other thread and your words about Timothy Leary pushed me to finally go and read some of his work. I spent a large portion of the day reading his psychedelic experience manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead. That's deep stuff in there. So as ugly as that thread was getting, there was a positive aspect to the controversy and that pointed me in a new direction that will ultimately facilitate my growth. Thanks.

 

[clouds]

Well I couldn't read past maybe what Ice House Shaman was saying about the age factor?

It seemed that the thread which began with simple questions and experiences transformed overnight into a soup of misunderstandings, amazing assumptions, and name-calling mixed with psy-rage and maybe personal differences that translated into direct offenses.

I'm sure many people here have different opinions about different subjects on different contexts.
It can get really difficult to fully understand complex messages about such sensitive topics through a forum.
I mean, even when talking sometimes people have real big problems of communication.

If the mods made the decision to close the topic it should be respected.

 

[jamie]

Just checked that other thread and i did find that age related responce slightly judgemental..

Age means nothing...some of the most naive and ignorant people I have ever met are well over 50...Ive met stupid people old and young alike..

I dont think its really fair to judge peopel based on age like that..to me thats like forming an opinion about someone based on skin color and cultural background...I can see how its alot easier to judge someone based on age, but really its never good to make assumptions like that..like they say, never judge a book by its cover.

 

[idtravlr]

I don't think I saw the thread... I will say however, that generally when someone tries to use age, orientation, or background as an argument for a debate, it's more often than not a snide way at taking a jab at the person and disguising it as a defense. It's a cheap cop out, and we see it all too often, be it in politics or on the cyberwebs. I respect 69's position on this as well as the mod's decision to put extinguish the fire.

Peace and good vibes!
-idt

 

[Bill Cipher]

Oh, for the love of Pete...

The thread's been pulled, so the threat to Ron's fragile feelings has been extinguished, don't worry. But the persecution wasn't quite as egregious as some sensitive petunias would suggest, and if you didn't see it, well I guess you really wouldn't know, now would you?

Truth is, he made some extremely dictatorial remarks that not everyone agreed with, then got his panties all in a bunch at the first sign of opposing viewpoints. His whole stance was juvenile, so someone (not me) assumed he was younger than he was. It wasn't a jab, it wasn't snide, and 69Ron is not Psychedelic Jesus.

Why is there such an outpouring to protect him? He's capable of fighting his own fights.

 

[jamie]

haha well your probly right this topic had bean beat to death

 

[lonewolf123]

Because we all love Ron?

 

[idtravlr]

and if you didn't see it, well I guess you really wouldn't know, now would you?

Why is there such an outpouring to protect him? He's capable of fighting his own fights.

With regard to me, I was referring to flaming posts in general, and ron's, and the mod's positions on that. Like I said, I didn't even see the post, so I'm not defending anyone, or even discussing the original thread. I'm just stating my general disdain for web forums for many of the reasons that were discussed on THIS thread. The lack of this kind of thing on the Nexus is one of the things that's so refreshing about it to me.

Maybe you weren't referring to me, but if you were, I wasn't trying to get anyone all fired up again. The above is all my comment meant. It had zip, zero, zilch reference to the original thread.

Peace,
-idt

 

[69ron]

I thought I was banned. It seemed like it. As soon as I tried to post it said "access denied". So I assumed I was banned. Which I have no problem with. If a subject is taboo, fine.

I tend to get highly opinionated sometimes and I do support some ideas that are way out of the norm.

I support Leary’s view on LSD 100%, and feel strongly about it. (However, I would support the use of purified LSH over LSD, because it’s a natural product, and in pure form it is capable of the same mind expanding effects that a small dose of LSD produces.)

My posts about psychedelic use obviously inflamed a few people, and then attracted some nut cases. So I thought for sure I was banned from that thread.

Even though I wasn’t banned, I don’t think I’m going to bring up that subject here again, especially in an area of the forum that includes all members. It attracts way too many nut cases. It’s not taken seriously by all, and I mean it to be taken seriously.

I’m sorry I inflamed a few minds, but my point of view on this is not some overnight decision. I’ve formulated this way of thinking over several decades of life experiences. I got interested in Timothy Leary when I was a young teenager. I read a lot of his work. I was fascinated. I didn’t realize until much later on in life that he was a genius and he took fantastic risks to open people up to the opportunity to enhance their own minds by proper use of psychedelics, namely LSD. Most of his work is amazing. He helped a lot of people. He saw it as his place in life to spread the news about what LSD is capable of. He did this against all odds. He was very courageous. The thing is, he knew he was right. I know he was right too. In LSD, Leary found the most powerful mind altering drug known to man that had great potential to cure mankind of all sorts of mental ills. This wasn’t an idea. He was working on people and actually helping them, and getting real solid results. So were other psychologists. When used right, LSD is an amazing compound.

I feel sorry for Leary. He took such heat for his stand on LSD. But I’m proud that he never caved in. He knew he was right. He knew from actual lab studies on human beings the great potential LSD showed to help people.

LSD was seen by many psychologists as one of the most important psychological tools discovered in the history of mankind. Some people still view it this way. I surely do.

The discovery of LSD set off a movement in the human race that changed the world for the better. Many things changed because LSD was released to the public. The mass amount of change in the 60’s was for the most part fueled by LSD.

I know Leary was proud of what he’d accomplished. He single handedly changed the world by pushing LSD onto the public.

At some point in the future Leary will be viewed in history as a hero of the mind and soul. A person who started a cascade of events that forever changed mankind for the better.

Wherever Leary’s soul is right now, if there is such a thing, I want to say THANK YOU. God bless you. You were a fantastic human being and you did what no one else had the balls to do. You confronted the opposition head on with a smile and good will, and brought about marvelous changes to us all. The world is a better place because you took the risks you did.

For rest of the people out there who didn’t realize Leary was a courageous genius, all I have to say is read his books. He knew LSD better than anyone. He knew what great power hid inside it if used right. He wanted to unleash that power onto the entire world. He wanted to empower us all to be better people. That is a very noble thing and he took great risks to attempt to get it accomplished, but never reached his goal completely, but nevertheless, he did change the world. He got the attention of enough people to make a difference, and for that, I am forever grateful.





Age has nothing to do with my support of Leary. I supported his views when I was a teenager and I support his views now as a parent. To trying to knock me down by saying I’m “close minded” or “immature” or I must be “younger” is not constructive criticism. This is one of the problems with forums. People are too quick to bring things down to a childish fight. I hate it. Why can’t people argue their points and not use this type of demeaning language?

Leary held onto his views about LSD until he died, and was proud of it. I will also die holding onto the same views. Why? Because they are right. For me, it’s as clear as day. This has nothing to do with being “open minded”, “close minded”, “mature” or “immature”. I think we all know that, even those people who choose to use such demeaning language. If you’re going to use that kind of language, you might as well start cursing.

I’m not going to bring myself down to that level. I’m going to argue the facts, or what I believe to be the facts, and not use that kind of language.

If you really want to inflame me, that’s not going to do it anyway. It only serves to make you look bad, not me. Other people reading it see it as demeaning language intended to inflame, and it shows that the person posting such demeaning language is obviously taking things way too emotionally and getting all heated up.

If I post something you disagree with, just state that you disagree with it, or don’t believe it, or you think it’s wrong, and give your reasons why. That’s how to carry out a constructive conversation. If I am wrong, then surely you can point it out using facts or opinions without using inflammatory comments. I’m sure I am sometimes guilty of using inflammatory language. I think we all do this occasionally. But we should all try our best not to succumb to that kind of thing. It only makes you look bad to other people.

 

[69ron]

Oh, for the love of Pete...

The thread's been pulled, so the threat to Ron's fragile feelings has been extinguished, don't worry. But the persecution wasn't quite as egregious as some sensitive petunias would suggest, and if you didn't see it, well I guess you really wouldn't know, now would you?

Truth is, he made some extremely dictatorial remarks that not everyone agreed with, then got his panties all in a bunch at the first sign of opposing viewpoints. His whole stance was juvenile, so someone (not me) assumed he was younger than he was. It wasn't a jab, it wasn't snide, and 69Ron is not Psychedelic Jesus.

Why is there such an outpouring to protect him? He's capable of fighting his own fights.

Now see how demeaning this whole post is?

Several attempts to insult me are made rather than to argue the facts. This is exactly the type of thing I’m talking about.

This user is obviously upset, and using words like “Ron's fragile feelings”, as if I actually care. That’s funny. Then we have “he made some extremely dictatorial remarks”, and then, “got his panties all in a bunch”, and then, “His whole stance was juvenile”, and then, “69Ron is not Psychedelic Jesus“.

This is hilarious and shows extremely poor taste when it comes to the choice of words the user had made. This is exactly the kind of post that is embarrassing I think, not for me but for Uncle Knucles.

Art, read what you posted and put your name in place of mine here and see how it looks to you:

Oh, for the love of Pete...

The thread's been pulled, so the threat to Uncle Knucles 's fragile feelings has been extinguished, don't worry. But the persecution wasn't quite as egregious as some sensitive petunias would suggest, and if you didn't see it, well I guess you really wouldn't know, now would you?

Truth is, he made some extremely dictatorial remarks that not everyone agreed with, then got his panties all in a bunch at the first sign of opposing viewpoints. His whole stance was juvenile, so someone (not me) assumed he was younger than he was. It wasn't a jab, it wasn't snide, and Uncle Knucles is not Psychedelic Jesus.

Why is there such an outpouring to protect him? He's capable of fighting his own fights.

I think most people find that distasteful.

I think your choice of words make you look very bad Art. I don’t think other people enjoy reading that kind of trashy talk. You should read that a few times and think why you picked that kind of language. I don't care what you write personally. You are not at all an important figure to me. But I think you can learn how to better construct your arguments.

 

[dankh]

I'M not projecting; YOU'RE projecting!

 

[Bill Cipher]

Puh-leeeze...

It's very easy for you to take the revisionist high road when the thread's already been deleted, so that no one can see just how it is that you actually conducted yourself. Do you really think that what people objected to was your praise of Timothy Leary??? Don't be coy, you ridiculous fool. It's really quite beneath you. Have the balls to stand by your convictions. Ask your friends to repost the thread.

You stated - not once, not twice, but repeatedly and in an ugly fashion that a life without psychedelic initiation - anyone's life - is sad, stupid and devoid of meaning. You didn't give the "psychedelics are for everyone" speech - you presented it as somehow mandatory to all human fulfillment. It was your colossal arrogance and juvenile ideology that others were responding to, and instead of entertaining an honest dialog, you dismissed each response VERY rudely. I jumped in - and respectfully, I believe - offered my take on the issue. You responded like a spoiled child, and things went downhill from there.

If it’s somehow escaped anyone’s attention, our culture stands at a crossroads. Will we be afforded what I personally believe is a birthright to explore our own minds, or will we continue to be deprived of our basic civil liberties? There are many here working very hard to try and turn the tide, but if we want respect, we need to present ourselves to the world as deserving of respect. Fanatical and dictatorial viewpoints will only hold us back, as will nutty and dangerous, self-professed “healers” (who, interestingly, share Ron's views in this instance).

Yes, I’m pissed off at the lunatic fringe that would dogmatize psychedelics. You blather on about personal rights and the liberation of the community - and yet I am telling you as clearly as I can that your lack of perspective and narrow viewpoint is damaging to our culture. You don’t know shit about what is best for anyone other than yourself. You present your bloated opinions as fact and tactlessly impose your narrow beliefs on all those who enter into your orbit.

If I haven’t been clear with you up until now, this is what I believe: If someone tells you “I am the way”, they are clearly not the way. What I have learned through psychedelics is that the way is infinite - and in the same way I would take offence to having Jesus rammed down my throat, I find your acid nazi ideology to be ignorant and patently offensive.

I love this site, but there is certainly no shortage of this kind of backwards thinking going on here. Don’t sell me Jesus. Don't sell me acid. Don’t tell me I’m sad or that my life will be lacking if I don’t walk your chosen path. Because if you do, you’re a jackass. And I’m telling you, Ron - in as unapologetic (and unpopular) a way as I can possibly tell you – YOU ARE A JACKASS AND YOU’RE FUCKING UP MY CULTURE.

Repost the thread and let everyone else decide for themselves, you crybaby.

 

[idtravlr]

This is by NO means directed at any one individual on this thread, and I'm not trying to act as though I'm a mod or something. It's just a good-natured gesture:

Welcome to the DMT-Nexus.

Below are some sincere ideas that represent the perspectives of most of our members about what the nexus means to us:

• We EMBRACE those who have curiosity about or experience of voyaging in the worlds of spice (DMT) .
• Spice takes us to worlds BEYOND egos and personalities.
• Spice journeys can be harrowing. Those undergoing them need SUPPORT from travelers who have gone before them.

If you’ve cruised the forum you have surely seen that the nexus is different from any other forum.

• We respect each other and support each other, because we know that anyone willing to make these journeys automatically deserves respect and support.
• We mostly avoid the petty types of forum fights and cliques seen on many forums because our topic is anything but petty.
• We understand that members have a variety of experiences and opinions because the universe is infinite—and no one can really carve a piece off for himself and declare it the “only truth.”
• Most of us are generous in giving love and support because we know how much love and support we need ourselves.

Since most of our members agree about the above, we don’t really have much need for rules. We aren’t school children here; and most people here have long ago determined to reach beyond the rules that culture and society are so eager to set. Be that as it may, below we list some points that can serve well as a guide to the types of posts that work best in the community:

• It’s easy to be humble: There are many professional chemists and scientists here; and there are also many who have travelled extensively in the world of spice.
• Being aggressive or contentious won’t do anything for you here. You’ll quickly find that people won’t respond to you if they feel your intentions are aggressive or petty.
• It follows from the above: If someone unthinkingly treats you in an aggressive or petty manner it’s best to just ignore them.

 

[dankh]

Puh-leeeze...

It's very easy for you to take the revisionist high road when the thread's already been deleted, so that no one can see just how it is that you actually conducted yourself. Do you really think that what people objected to was your praise of Timothy Leary??? Don't be coy, you ridiculous fool. It's really quite beneath you. Have the balls to stand by your convictions. Ask your friends to repost the thread.

You stated - not once, not twice, but repeatedly and in an ugly fashion that a life without psychedelic initiation - anyone's life - is sad, stupid and devoid of meaning. You didn't give the "psychedelics are for everyone" speech - you presented it as somehow mandatory to all human fulfillment. It was your colossal arrogance and juvenile ideology that others were responding to, and instead of entertaining an honest dialog, you dismissed each response VERY rudely. I jumped in - and respectfully, I believe - offered my take on the issue. You responded like a spoiled child, and things went downhill from there.

If it’s somehow escaped anyone’s attention, our culture stands at a crossroads. Will we be afforded what I personally believe is a birthright to explore our own minds, or will we continue to be deprived of our basic civil liberties? There are many here working very hard to try and turn the tide, but if we want respect, we need to present ourselves to the world at large as deserving of respect. Fanatical and dictatorial viewpoints will only hold us back, as will nutty and dangerous, self-professed “healers” (who, interestingly, share Ron's views).

Yes, I’m pissed off at the lunatic fringe that would dogmatize psychedelics. Ron, you love to blather on about effecting change to the benefit of the community, and yet I am telling you as clearly as I can that your lack of perspective and narrow viewpoint is damaging to our culture. You don’t know shit about what is best for anyone other than yourself. You present your bloated opinions as fact and tactlessly impose your narrow beliefs on all those who enter into your orbit.

If I haven’t been clear with you up until now, this is what I believe: If someone tells you “I am the way”, they are clearly not the way. What I have learned through psychedelics is that the way is infinite - and in the same way I would take offence to having Jesus rammed down my throat, I find your acid nazi ideology to be ignorant and patently offensive.

I love this site, but there is certainly no shortage of this kind of backwards thinking going on here. Don’t sell me Jesus. Don't sell me acid. Don’t tell me I’m sad or that my life will be lacking if I don’t walk your chosen path. If you do, you’re a jackass, and I’m telling you, Ron - in as unapologetic (and unpopular) a way as I can possibly tell you – YOU ARE A JACKASS AND YOU’RE FUCKING UP MY CULTURE.

Repost the thread and let everyone else decide for themselves, you crybaby.

He's also just a guy on a forum that doesn't serve any real impact to you, yours, and your others lives.

Jussayin.