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russian olive status ?
- Thread starter Felnik
- Start date
kerelsk
Rising Star
It's very promising to see a few bioassays with this plant- and hearing reports of only typical harmala effects.
I've become worried that 2-methylated harmalas could be neurotoxic similar to MPP+ since reading a paper titled Mitochondrial respiratory inhibition by N-methylated beta-carboline derivatives structurally resembling N-methyl-4-phenylpyridine.
I suppose we still don't know the role of 2-methyltetrahydrobetacarboline (2-MTHBC) found in spice extracts and the cyclization product of dmt, except that it doesn't seem harmful in small doses.
I suppose if people are taking Elaeagnus and not getting Alzheimer's the likes of MPP+ that says something.
I've become worried that 2-methylated harmalas could be neurotoxic similar to MPP+ since reading a paper titled Mitochondrial respiratory inhibition by N-methylated beta-carboline derivatives structurally resembling N-methyl-4-phenylpyridine.
I suppose we still don't know the role of 2-methyltetrahydrobetacarboline (2-MTHBC) found in spice extracts and the cyclization product of dmt, except that it doesn't seem harmful in small doses.
I suppose if people are taking Elaeagnus and not getting Alzheimer's the likes of MPP+ that says something.
yeah fantastic report dreamer042!
kerelsk, the various not very well understood betacarbolines in smaller amounts in a number of species (phalaris, acacia etc), and which are often tryptamine cyclisation products, have been speculated on as having the possibility of quite potent effects, and yes so far the anecdotal bio assay evidence shows no sign of harm..
the parkinsons symptom studies are counter balanced or contradicted by studies of various betacarbolines from raisins and tobacco smoke condensate, which indicate potential positive health effects - see RAISIN Extracts as MAOIs... - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus and elsewhere..
this is great research..autumn olive is a quiet mysterious rising achiever of a power plant, i'd like to know what it's 'shamanic' or traditional name(s) are..
.
kerelsk, the various not very well understood betacarbolines in smaller amounts in a number of species (phalaris, acacia etc), and which are often tryptamine cyclisation products, have been speculated on as having the possibility of quite potent effects, and yes so far the anecdotal bio assay evidence shows no sign of harm..
the parkinsons symptom studies are counter balanced or contradicted by studies of various betacarbolines from raisins and tobacco smoke condensate, which indicate potential positive health effects - see RAISIN Extracts as MAOIs... - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus and elsewhere..
this is great research..autumn olive is a quiet mysterious rising achiever of a power plant, i'd like to know what it's 'shamanic' or traditional name(s) are..
.
Experiment #1
Prep: 400 mg of Russian Olive extract jelly was dissolved in 4 ml of spring water and put into an oral syringe for easy dosing. Later on in the evening 20 mg of DMT fumarate extract from Acacia confusa (fairly well separated from goo/NMT) was dissolved into around 2 ml of spring water. A light dinner of kitchari was consumed a couple hours prior to beginning the experiment. It should be noted the subject is on the sensitive end of the harmine/harmaline dosing spectrum with 150 mg full spectrum rue extract being a strong fully inhibiting dose.
T + 0:00 - Ingested 1 ml(100 mg) of Russian Olive extract solution with a bit of water to help it down. Taste is bitter but not unpalatable, tastes very much like the cooking bark smells, very earthy and similar to caapi but also distinctive and unique.
T + 0:15 - First alert, distinctive harmala effects noticed and begin building rapidly.
T + 0:30 - Effects are readily apparent but fairly mild on par with ~50 mg syrian rue freebase extract. Light body load, dreamy meditative headspace, lucid flowing thought processes. Another 1 ml (100 mg) Russian Olive extract is ingested with a water chaser.
T + 0:45 - Effects are slightly moar pronounced than previously, second dose is beginning to first alert. Effects on par with ~ 75 mg of freebase rue extract and building rapidly. Another 1 ml (100 mg) Russian Olive extract is ingested with a water chaser.
T + 1:15 - Harmala effects very pronounced. Strong body load and feeling very dreamy and relaxed. "Mentally lubricated" with thoughts flowing smoothly and rapidly unfolding into multiple streams. Notice myself returning to lucidity from time to time having been off on various thought streams. Slightest hints of cev effects beginning behind closed eyelids. Effects on par with 100+ mg freebase rue extract. Another .5 ml (50 mg) Russian Olive extract ingested with 1 ml (10 mg) Acacia confusa extract with water chaser.
T + 1:20 - Another .5 ml (50 mg) Russian Olive extract ingested with 1 ml (10 mg) Acacia confusa extract with water chaser.
T + 1:45 - Harmala effects are at full strength and very pleasant, quite euphoric. Looking for DMT effects but nothing beyond some tummy rumbling and slightly increased euphoria is noted.
T + 2:00 - Harmala effects going strong, no tryptamine effects to speak of were noted. Eat a dragonfruit to see if kickstarting the digestion may kick in effects.
T + 2:45 - Harmala effects still going, but mostly levelled off and quickly winding down. No DMT effects were noted.
Next experiment Russian Olive extract will be dosed all at once together with the Acacia extract.
Stay tuned.
Prep: 400 mg of Russian Olive extract jelly was dissolved in 4 ml of spring water and put into an oral syringe for easy dosing. Later on in the evening 20 mg of DMT fumarate extract from Acacia confusa (fairly well separated from goo/NMT) was dissolved into around 2 ml of spring water. A light dinner of kitchari was consumed a couple hours prior to beginning the experiment. It should be noted the subject is on the sensitive end of the harmine/harmaline dosing spectrum with 150 mg full spectrum rue extract being a strong fully inhibiting dose.
T + 0:00 - Ingested 1 ml(100 mg) of Russian Olive extract solution with a bit of water to help it down. Taste is bitter but not unpalatable, tastes very much like the cooking bark smells, very earthy and similar to caapi but also distinctive and unique.
T + 0:15 - First alert, distinctive harmala effects noticed and begin building rapidly.
T + 0:30 - Effects are readily apparent but fairly mild on par with ~50 mg syrian rue freebase extract. Light body load, dreamy meditative headspace, lucid flowing thought processes. Another 1 ml (100 mg) Russian Olive extract is ingested with a water chaser.
T + 0:45 - Effects are slightly moar pronounced than previously, second dose is beginning to first alert. Effects on par with ~ 75 mg of freebase rue extract and building rapidly. Another 1 ml (100 mg) Russian Olive extract is ingested with a water chaser.
T + 1:15 - Harmala effects very pronounced. Strong body load and feeling very dreamy and relaxed. "Mentally lubricated" with thoughts flowing smoothly and rapidly unfolding into multiple streams. Notice myself returning to lucidity from time to time having been off on various thought streams. Slightest hints of cev effects beginning behind closed eyelids. Effects on par with 100+ mg freebase rue extract. Another .5 ml (50 mg) Russian Olive extract ingested with 1 ml (10 mg) Acacia confusa extract with water chaser.
T + 1:20 - Another .5 ml (50 mg) Russian Olive extract ingested with 1 ml (10 mg) Acacia confusa extract with water chaser.
T + 1:45 - Harmala effects are at full strength and very pleasant, quite euphoric. Looking for DMT effects but nothing beyond some tummy rumbling and slightly increased euphoria is noted.
T + 2:00 - Harmala effects going strong, no tryptamine effects to speak of were noted. Eat a dragonfruit to see if kickstarting the digestion may kick in effects.
T + 2:45 - Harmala effects still going, but mostly levelled off and quickly winding down. No DMT effects were noted.
Next experiment Russian Olive extract will be dosed all at once together with the Acacia extract.
Stay tuned.
kerelsk
Rising Star
Awesome, awesome, dreamoar 
Investigating, I find more credence for the safety profile of Elaeagnus spp.
Here's three papers that support the traditional medicine usage of these bushes.
A comprehensive review on phytochemical and pharmacological aspects of Elaeagnus angustifolia L.
"Elaeagnus angustifolia L., commonly known as oleaster or Russian olive, is used worldwide as a traditional natural remedy or nutritional agent for the management of a wide range of illnesses. [...] Modern scientific investigations suggest that the plant possesses a broad spectrum of pharmacological and therapeutic effects, including antimicrobial, insecticidal, antioxidant, anti-arthritic, wound healing, cardioprotective, hypolipidemic, antinociceptive, anti-inflammatory, antimutagenic, antitumour and gastroprotective activity. [...] E. angustifolia possesses a wide variety of indications in traditional and folklore medicine of different nations. In addition, a wide range of pharmacological and biological activity has been reported for this species."
Phytochemical study of the bark of some plants of the Elaeagnaceae family as a natural source of β-carboline indole alkaloids
"Bark of seabuckthorn (Hippophaë rhamnoides L.) and Elaeagnus spp. is used in folk medicine of Central and Southeastern Asia as tinctures, decoctions, and powders to relieve depression and improve temperament [1]."
This paper also includes a table that shows E. angustifolia to contain 0.021% 2-Me-THBC and 0.005% 2-Me-tetrahydroharmol, while E. umbellata has no reported 2-Me-THBC and trace amounts of 2-Me-tetrahydroharmol.
Antibacterial activity of Elaeagnus umbellata (Thunb.) a medicinal plant from Pakistan.
"Most of the extracts displayed broad-spectrum activity, since gram positive bacteria including S. aureus, B. subtilis and gram-negative bacteria including E. coli and P. aeruginosa were inhibited. These preliminary findings may provide the basis for traditional use of this plant in the treatment of infectious diseases."
Investigating, I find more credence for the safety profile of Elaeagnus spp.
Here's three papers that support the traditional medicine usage of these bushes.
A comprehensive review on phytochemical and pharmacological aspects of Elaeagnus angustifolia L.
"Elaeagnus angustifolia L., commonly known as oleaster or Russian olive, is used worldwide as a traditional natural remedy or nutritional agent for the management of a wide range of illnesses. [...] Modern scientific investigations suggest that the plant possesses a broad spectrum of pharmacological and therapeutic effects, including antimicrobial, insecticidal, antioxidant, anti-arthritic, wound healing, cardioprotective, hypolipidemic, antinociceptive, anti-inflammatory, antimutagenic, antitumour and gastroprotective activity. [...] E. angustifolia possesses a wide variety of indications in traditional and folklore medicine of different nations. In addition, a wide range of pharmacological and biological activity has been reported for this species."
Phytochemical study of the bark of some plants of the Elaeagnaceae family as a natural source of β-carboline indole alkaloids
"Bark of seabuckthorn (Hippophaë rhamnoides L.) and Elaeagnus spp. is used in folk medicine of Central and Southeastern Asia as tinctures, decoctions, and powders to relieve depression and improve temperament [1]."
This paper also includes a table that shows E. angustifolia to contain 0.021% 2-Me-THBC and 0.005% 2-Me-tetrahydroharmol, while E. umbellata has no reported 2-Me-THBC and trace amounts of 2-Me-tetrahydroharmol.
Antibacterial activity of Elaeagnus umbellata (Thunb.) a medicinal plant from Pakistan.
"Most of the extracts displayed broad-spectrum activity, since gram positive bacteria including S. aureus, B. subtilis and gram-negative bacteria including E. coli and P. aeruginosa were inhibited. These preliminary findings may provide the basis for traditional use of this plant in the treatment of infectious diseases."
Just some follow up:
After taking my melatonin and going to bed, sleep came easy. Dreaming was significantly enhanced and storylines were detailed and highly vivid. Upon waking I was very groggy and had a pretty strong harmala hangover for a few hours. There was a nice afterglow and a lovely centered "zen" feeling as I was going about my day. Meditation came easy and was deeper than normal. After yoga practice, during Savasana there was deep ego detachment and drifting into harmalaesque dreamstates.
It may just be the fact it's been a while since I've had a good strong harmala dose, but this medicine seems to really stay with you in a rather unique way.
After taking my melatonin and going to bed, sleep came easy. Dreaming was significantly enhanced and storylines were detailed and highly vivid. Upon waking I was very groggy and had a pretty strong harmala hangover for a few hours. There was a nice afterglow and a lovely centered "zen" feeling as I was going about my day. Meditation came easy and was deeper than normal. After yoga practice, during Savasana there was deep ego detachment and drifting into harmalaesque dreamstates.
It may just be the fact it's been a while since I've had a good strong harmala dose, but this medicine seems to really stay with you in a rather unique way.
Experiment #2
400 mg of russian olive jelly was taken with 20 mg freebase mimosa extracted DMT dissolved in a small amount of water to which ascorbic acid was added to dissolve the DMT.
Harmala effects began within a half hour and slowly tapered up over the next hour at which point they moar or less seemed to level off. Harmala effect was significantly weaker than the previous experiment 4 days ago, perhaps some longer lasting tolerance with the compounds is present?
No effects were felt from the DMT leaving me to conclude that the mainly MAO-B inhibiting compounds in russian olive are not suitable for orally activating DMT.
There is still some potential here to try experimenting with mixing russian olive extract into ayahuasca/anahuasca mixtures for inhibition of both MAO-A and MAO-B to see what effect that has on the overall experience.
Since MAO-B tends to act moar on phenethylamines there is also the potential to explore the effects of this extract on mescaline and other phens. This is fairly unexplored territory though so extensive research and safety precautions are called for before considering investigating that line of reasoning.
It looks like Elaeagnus is not the invasive North American ayahuasca alternative we were hoping for, but it is a still a great source of novel beta-carbolines and a worthy teacher plant in it's own right.
exquisitus
Rising Star
wow.
did you know that in the russian speaking world tea from the leaves is considered a common health product?
for example here (djiddha (?) starts at 2:20, try to disregard the sexy voice i dare you
)
and of course, how could we miss that russian olive moonshine (in russia this is a health drink, i kid ya not)
just imagine putin sipping russian olive tea, while taking over the world with a grin on his face, because nobody in the west has a clue as to where his power comes from
boggles the mind, what is this not better known outside the russian speaking world?
did you know that in the russian speaking world tea from the leaves is considered a common health product?
for example here (djiddha (?) starts at 2:20, try to disregard the sexy voice i dare you
)and of course, how could we miss that
russian olive moonshine (in russia this is a health drink, i kid ya not)just imagine putin sipping russian olive tea, while taking over the world with a grin on his face, because nobody in the west has a clue as to where his power comes from
boggles the mind, what is this not better known outside the russian speaking world?
exquisitus
Rising Star
requesting id confirmation.
it's a shrub, not a tree, with thorns, buds are yellow inside.
collected 419g leaves. unnoticeable amount to the shrub itself.
full moon, after a witches sabbat, with drums, fires, naked people, pitch black grove on a lake's sandy beach. went to meet a yoga pants fashion model. she was 2+ hrs late, so i said, f*ck it, i'll go collect some russian olive instead. ah, almost forgot, met a spirit animal and that was freaking awesome experience in the pitch black of the night. had to take pictures on the phone, it/he/she(?) agreed to pose, which in itself was freaking weird all things considering, so next morning i'd have proof i wasn't hallucinating... i kid you not.
you can't get more potent plant material than that, to the extent potency is determined by the circumstances surrounding the act of collecting it
any recommendations for a tek?
for now i am soaking it in vinegar to kill a zillion disgusting green bugs (aphids?) infesting the material... ewww...
actually the jar contents smell very yummy in a fine salaty way to the point that i am tempted to start eating it with a spoon from the jar itself... is that the chlorophyll or what...
it's a shrub, not a tree, with thorns, buds are yellow inside.
collected 419g leaves. unnoticeable amount to the shrub itself.
full moon, after a witches sabbat, with drums, fires, naked people, pitch black grove on a lake's sandy beach. went to meet a yoga pants fashion model. she was 2+ hrs late, so i said, f*ck it, i'll go collect some russian olive instead. ah, almost forgot, met a spirit animal and that was freaking awesome experience in the pitch black of the night. had to take pictures on the phone, it/he/she(?) agreed to pose, which in itself was freaking weird all things considering, so next morning i'd have proof i wasn't hallucinating... i kid you not.
you can't get more potent plant material than that, to the extent potency is determined by the circumstances surrounding the act of collecting it
any recommendations for a tek?
for now i am soaking it in vinegar to kill a zillion disgusting green bugs (aphids?) infesting the material... ewww...
actually the jar contents smell very yummy in a fine salaty way to the point that i am tempted to start eating it with a spoon from the jar itself... is that the chlorophyll or what...
Attachments
Did you happen to snap a photo of the whole plant? Based on the description and photo, I suspect you may have some species of Shepherdia, which itself is quite promising, as it appears to contain novel harmala and tryptamine alkaloids. Starting with a fairly crude extraction is probably best as the harmalas in these botanicals seem to be a bit moar finicky than harmine/harmaline.
Attaching the pdf linked above for easy reference.
Ayer, W. A., and L. M. Browne. "Alkaloids of Shepherdia argentea and Shepherdia canadensis." Canadian Journal of Chemistry 48.13 (1970): 1980-1984.
Attaching the pdf linked above for easy reference.
Ayer, W. A., and L. M. Browne. "Alkaloids of Shepherdia argentea and Shepherdia canadensis." Canadian Journal of Chemistry 48.13 (1970): 1980-1984.
exquisitus
Rising Star
whole plant? i think i have some.
on my way to witches' sabbat before midnight.
and on my way back after midnight.
yeah soapberry is another plant on my very long list of potential cool plants to investigate, nowhere anytime soon though.....
on my way to witches' sabbat before midnight.
and on my way back after midnight.
yeah soapberry is another plant on my very long list of potential cool plants to investigate, nowhere anytime soon though.....
Attachments
exquisitus
Rising Star
uv test looks pretty bad
on the left russian olive leaves in vinegar, on the right, spent rue water, extracted innumerable times, looks like dirty water in normal light, i keep it as a benchmarking tool, and yet it still glows, olive vinegar does not. the olive vinegar smells and tastes awesome though.
on the left russian olive leaves in vinegar, on the right, spent rue water, extracted innumerable times, looks like dirty water in normal light, i keep it as a benchmarking tool, and yet it still glows, olive vinegar does not. the olive vinegar smells and tastes awesome though.
Attachments
Okay that does indeed appear to be Elaeagnus angustifolia.
Don't be too concerned about the UV test, the harmala alkaloids present in Russian Olive are not UV reactive. My experiments have led me conclude they are not suitable for activating DMT either. They are psychoactive on their own however and they do make a nice addition to changa mixes. I expect the most value with these ones is going to be discovered in the phenethylamine realms.
Don't be too concerned about the UV test, the harmala alkaloids present in Russian Olive are not UV reactive. My experiments have led me conclude they are not suitable for activating DMT either. They are psychoactive on their own however and they do make a nice addition to changa mixes. I expect the most value with these ones is going to be discovered in the phenethylamine realms.
exquisitus
Rising Star
what are the chances that manske will work? supposedly manske works in the case of autumn olive, so chances are high it will work with russian olives? alcohol is pretty expensive for me to try...
exquisitus
Rising Star
btw the above quote clearly states that tea and extracts from russian olive rootbark exhibit anxiolytic properties. no instructiions as to how to prepare said extract...
I'm not quite sure how well the standard methods really work. I've seen a lot moar failures than success with manske and just basing out the tea, but this may be do in large part to inflated expectations from rue and caapi. Russian Olive has a very low alkaloid content, .7% and 7% are worlds apart when your trying to filter alkaloids out of a solution.
Drinking the tea works fine, making a simple 10x with the leaves to smoke works great as well, if your end goal is just to experience the effects of the plant. The method I used to extract only required a minimal amount of alcohol and so far has given the best yields I've encountered, but it is a rather lengthy route and probably not worth the effort for a couple doses.
I guess it all depends on your intentions, but in most cases I'd just recommend making tea at a couple hundred grams per dose.
Drinking the tea works fine, making a simple 10x with the leaves to smoke works great as well, if your end goal is just to experience the effects of the plant. The method I used to extract only required a minimal amount of alcohol and so far has given the best yields I've encountered, but it is a rather lengthy route and probably not worth the effort for a couple doses.
I guess it all depends on your intentions, but in most cases I'd just recommend making tea at a couple hundred grams per dose.
exquisitus
Rising Star
your comments sound quite reasonable to me.
i will try manske and post here when it's done.
considering that i have specialized in extracting miniscule amounts, just got 220mg rue hcl salts from stains alone (yes, stains) and i am in the process of getting what looks now like a quite measurable amount from 3l spent rue water i might have a chance, so the experiment is already in progress.
as for intention, r&d x 3
i will try manske and post here when it's done.
considering that i have specialized in extracting miniscule amounts, just got 220mg rue hcl salts from stains alone (yes, stains) and i am in the process of getting what looks now like a quite measurable amount from 3l spent rue water i might have a chance, so the experiment is already in progress.
as for intention, r&d x 3
exquisitus
Rising Star
a book with good info about russian olive
Wonders of the Earth as Solutions for Vibrant Health
Our body is a machine that we need to lubricate and maintain; otherwise, it can sustain problems without regular maintenance. It’s quite clear that the human body is one of nature’s greatest accomplishments. The simple things that we take for granted every day are simply part of the smooth...
books.google.ca
exquisitus
Rising Star
according to the attached paper (in russian) the most potent source of tetrahydroharman is see buckthorn bark.
tested Hippophaë rhamnoides L., Elaeagnus angustifolia L., E. orientalis
L., E. umbellata Thunb., E. multiflora Thunb. è Å. argentea Pursh.
authors claim that they discovered why bark preparations are active and conclude that there are enough actives in the bark for industrial production of pharmaceuticals.
tested Hippophaë rhamnoides L., Elaeagnus angustifolia L., E. orientalis
L., E. umbellata Thunb., E. multiflora Thunb. è Å. argentea Pursh.
authors claim that they discovered why bark preparations are active and conclude that there are enough actives in the bark for industrial production of pharmaceuticals.