hexabot said:
Hello
I have a question...
salvinorin alpha. 300mcg on a tab like lsd. Is this possible? and why has no one done this yet?
Where did you get the idea that no one has done this yet? If you google "salvia blotter," there are plenty of relevant results.
I first remember reading about this at least five years ago. Among sphere's salvinorin extraction documents, there's one that details how to
infuse salvinorin A onto cigarette papers. While these were intended to help standardize doses for smoking, it's not much of a leap to think of taking this stuff bucally. With a little googling, I found
an old Shroomery thread that I remembered discussing this method.
Also, a minor quibble: There is no such thing as salvinorin alpha. The various salvinorin compounds are differentiated by the letters of the Latin alphabet, not the Greek alphabet. The only person who I've ever heard refer to it as "salvinorin alpha" was Terence McKenna, and every time I hear it I want to grind my teeth. I know it's probably not really that big of a deal, it's just a pet peeve of mine.
hexabot said:
When a chemical comes in contact with the mucous membrane beneath the tongue, or buccal mucosa, it diffuses through it.
That's a gross oversimplification that completely ignores the complexity of membrane mechanics. There are entire companies who do nothing but develop novel formulations of drugs that will allow them to effectively diffuse across particular biological membranes. The two key challenges are addressing poor solubility and poor permeability... and unfortunately salvinorin A is both poorly soluble and poorly permeable.
As AlbertKLloyd mentioned, people often have inconsistent effects from ethanol tinctures. One of the reasons is that as the alcohol comes in contact with the saliva, the salvinorin A starts coming out of solution rapidly. As house mentioned, one of the common ways to overcome the burn of high-proof ethanol is to dilute it with hot water... this is easier on the mouth, but the effects become even less consistent because the solubility of salvinorin A in ethanol drops drastically when you get below 180 proof. Other solvents (acetone, DMSO) have been tried with similarly inconsistent effects. The reason that quidding leaves seems to be the most effective method seems to be because the other phytochemicals in the leaves help salvinorin A form an emulsion in saliva, which permeates the buccal membranes more effectively.
It's sort of a wonder that salvinorin A on a blotter would work at all... but according to redgreenvines (in the post linked above), it does work. It just takes a very large dose, somewhere around 10-20 mg. And you really have to "chew chew chew"... it seems that forming an emulsion is still critical. Just sticking it under your tongue and hoping for the best is probably going to lead to only mild effects.
There's no doubt some substantial work to be done in optimizing an effective means of administering pure salvinorin A... until there is a breakthrough in this area, your best bet is probably still quidding fresh leaf if you're looking for consistency.
smokerx said:
So what is wrong with smoking it? Its easy and very effective especially with enhanced salvia leafs.
You could as well ask that question of an ayahuasca drinker; the answer is the same. Vaporized doses of DMT and salvinorin A produce very abrupt and brief experiences. No doubt there is a lot of content in them, but it can be difficult to unpack meaningfully in such a short time. Longer experiences can be less jarring and allow more time to work deeply and extensively with the altered headspace of the experience.
The idea of quidding it was always kind of scary for me anyway because I wouldn't want to lower myself into a state of madness like that, but after reading the ayahuasca/vaped DMT comparison, it makes me a little more secure in wanting to try it.
