sex on ayahuasca

[endlessness]

i never said sex was bad, or that it wasn't used in ritual, or that i have not had sex on ayahuasca.

only that it is a common rule in sorcery to abstain from it for ritual purposes

even A.C. taught this
it is commonly taught in Tao, Buddhism, Voudun, Obeya and other systems,
it is for example a major teaching in Qi-gong training and certain types of yoga

orgasm releases energy, energy that can be conserved and directed at different things
it isn't a key part of using ayahuasca, just part of some of the rites employed that can be done in conjunction with ayahuasca, and other things too.

It is silly to think i said sex was bad or denounced it in any way.
I am familiar with sex magick, Tantra and the use of special energies in sex or sexual energies like kundalini

As for what you mean by spirit, it isn't relevant to anything i mentioned or am writing about.
spirit is not separated from the physical, nor does it imply a world beyond the physical

special diets are found for the same reason, how they affect spirit because of how they interact with the physical body, a persons spirit changes depending upon many influences including diet and sexual practices

I have experience with sex magick, tantra and some things you would no doubt refuse to believe, like causing orgasm in a partner using spirit energy techniques. I also see auras, big deal.

Ayahuasca diets are completely arbitrary, just like the sex rule, and there is definitely no consensus amongst indigenous people, this is a common misunderstanding that westerners have, once again an idealization of amazonian 'shamanism'.

For some people there should be no alcohol involved for weeks, for other groups alcohol is involved DURING the ayahuasca ritual. For some, there will be no coca products ever, for others they will chew freebased coca leaf powdered DURING the ayahuasca ritual. For some, there will be no animal products at all, for others some animal products are fine. For some there will be no sex, for others there will be sex orgies during, Etc etc etc etc etc.... So who's right and who's wrong? Or is the "spirit world" so contradictory that it transforms to whatever you believe in?

Also you didnt answer my questions regarding sex without orgasm, as well as sexual visions and subsequent sexual excitement during an experience.

And yes olympus mon, good post

 

[polytrip]

there are tribes documented to have large ayahuasca sessions where they engage in group orgies.

do you know where can i contact these tribes, fractal? Do they have a phone number or something? Can i sign-up somewhere?

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

it isn't an aya diet, like i said, it is a sorcery diet and is common in conjunction with practices of many types

it has nothing to do with the aya itself, who ever said it did?

 

[jamie]

a sorcery diet? I dunno man..I studied magick, witchcraft and religion at college and I never heard of anything called a "sorcery diet"..sorcery is definatily not a new world thing in relation to the etymology of the word, and the old world occult history is filled with fertility cults and rites..and you cant refer to people like crowley for instance if you wish to get a realistic picture of the old world pagan magickal practices. Crowley misinterpreted alot of things IMO and made alot of his own stuff up..alot of crowley's work is more in line with chaos magick than it is with anything ancestrial. I have studied traditional witchcraft as much as I possibly could, along with nordic seid practices and some druidic witchcraft/shamanistic practices..and I have never heard of a sort of sorcery diet that is prescribed across the borad that includes no sex. Traditional witchcraft for instance(which is NOT wicca) is something that is practiced according to the practioner and there is no set rules..the whole idea witches acknowledging moon cycles and such is also misunderstoof and from what I understand alot of them did not even do that..it was all an eclectic individual based practice..of course there is some cultural aspects that remain inherant in say norse seid practices compared to those of s druidic priest..

Some people might abstain from sex..but there are countless examples throughout europe of fertility cults who all practice magical forms of sex.

 

[JackFrost6]

Thank you very much for discussing the topic. I have been researching for a long time, constantly solving what and why such tasks are important before the ceremony. I can hardly eat anything, I suffer from hunger before I can take aya. I don't know how to cook, my only restaurant serves vegan food but not everything there is healthy according to the dietary norm. And yes another problem is mentioned here...sex.
We don't have to have sex before the ceremony. But the problem is masturbation, if someone has a higher need, even three days is too much for his person. Someone requests additional days after the ceremony. Two days is fine. Yes, I mean reaching orgasm.

 

[OrangeEnergy]

My first reaction to this question was incredulity.
My ayahuasca experiences have always been with specific intentions related to personal issues, and understanding I wished to achieve. Using ayahuasca as some kind of sex-aid seems incredibly disrespectful to me.
If someone has issues not being able to go without sexual release for a matter of days, surely an ayahuasca ceremony would be beneficial in trying to understand this addiction and help control it, but to go into a ceremony with the intention of having sex is, to me, the anthesis of what these journeys are about.
During the dieta leading up to ceremonies, I have always followed the nutritional restrictions, as well as abstaining from sexual release, trying to avoid media, etc.
If someone is unable to go without sex for a couple of days, I presume that this is going on all through the lead-up to the ceremony, as well as having the intention of during the ceremony too?
My first question would be, what is this person looking to receive from the ceremony, if is not to address this specific issue?

 

[dithyramb]

i never said sex was bad, or that it wasn't used in ritual, or that i have not had sex on ayahuasca.

only that it is a common rule in sorcery to abstain from it for ritual purposes

even A.C. taught this
it is commonly taught in Tao, Buddhism, Voudun, Obeya and other systems,
it is for example a major teaching in Qi-gong training and certain types of yoga

orgasm releases energy, energy that can be conserved and directed at different things
it isn't a key part of using ayahuasca, just part of some of the rites employed that can be done in conjunction with ayahuasca, and other things too.

It is silly to think i said sex was bad or denounced it in any way.
I am familiar with sex magick, Tantra and the use of special energies in sex or sexual energies like kundalini

As for what you mean by spirit, it isn't relevant to anything i mentioned or am writing about.
spirit is not separated from the physical, nor does it imply a world beyond the physical

special diets are found for the same reason, how they affect spirit because of how they interact with the physical body, a persons spirit changes depending upon many influences including diet and sexual practices

I have experience with sex magick, tantra and some things you would no doubt refuse to believe, like causing orgasm in a partner using spirit energy techniques. I also see auras, big deal.

Ayahuasca diets are completely arbitrary, just like the sex rule, and there is definitely no consensus amongst indigenous people, this is a common misunderstanding that westerners have, once again an idealization of amazonian 'shamanism'.

For some people there should be no alcohol involved for weeks, for other groups alcohol is involved DURING the ayahuasca ritual. For some, there will be no coca products ever, for others they will chew freebased coca leaf powdered DURING the ayahuasca ritual. For some, there will be no animal products at all, for others some animal products are fine. For some there will be no sex, for others there will be sex orgies during, Etc etc etc etc etc.... So who's right and who's wrong? Or is the "spirit world" so contradictory that it transforms to whatever you believe in?

Also you didnt answer my questions regarding sex without orgasm, as well as sexual visions and subsequent sexual excitement during an experience.

And yes olympus mon, good post

There are specific guidelines for specific aims. For tripping balls, there are no restrictions.

There is no reality as in all the "traditional" sources are pure or have the same aims.

Independent of "shamanic" plant medicine work, any true healing, transformation process requires disciplined conscious use of sexual energy at the very least (in exceptional cases where sexual energy is engaged), and most of the time requires full on sublimation.

How did I get to believe this? A decade and a half of experiential data through dedicated healing work with the plants.

Not to say that disciplining the bodily desires is easy. The irony is that the deepest sexual satisfaction can only be achieved with discipline.

 

[dragonrider]

My first reaction to this question was incredulity.
My ayahuasca experiences have always been with specific intentions related to personal issues, and understanding I wished to achieve. Using ayahuasca as some kind of sex-aid seems incredibly disrespectful to me.
If someone has issues not being able to go without sexual release for a matter of days, surely an ayahuasca ceremony would be beneficial in trying to understand this addiction and help control it, but to go into a ceremony with the intention of having sex is, to me, the anthesis of what these journeys are about.
During the dieta leading up to ceremonies, I have always followed the nutritional restrictions, as well as abstaining from sexual release, trying to avoid media, etc.
If someone is unable to go without sex for a couple of days, I presume that this is going on all through the lead-up to the ceremony, as well as having the intention of during the ceremony too?
My first question would be, what is this person looking to receive from the ceremony, if is not to address this specific issue?

Having sex with someone you share a deep spiritual connection with, can be an incredibly profound and cosmic experience. It can be a truly spiritual, healing, or, i dare say, even sacred experience as well.

Uktimately, sex is a manifestation of love. That's what sex in it's truest form is.

I know that it can also be other, less wonderfull things. A commodity product, a power tool, a currency, a disposable good. But it doesn't have to be.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I'll just share this as my participation in the dicusiion.

One love

 

[dithyramb]

BTW, I was not getting into judgements of right vs wrong. That's another domain. What I am saying is that every specific thing has its own specific requirements. You can't pretend to have water by combining two hydrogen atoms with two oxygen atoms (H2O2). Water requires two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, period.

 

[OrangeEnergy]

Having sex with someone you share a deep spiritual connection with, can be an incredibly profound and cosmic experience. It can be a truly spiritual, healing, or, i dare say, even sacred experience as well.

Uktimately, sex is a manifestation of love. That's what sex in it's truest form is.

I know that it can also be other, less wonderfull things. A commodity product, a power tool, a currency, a disposable good. But it doesn't have to be.

Yes indeed, but why do you need ayahuasca for this? Maybe it's irrational of me, but I view ayahuasca somewhat differently to other ceremonial psychedelics.
I've no issue with recreational usage, including sexual connection whilst partaking, but from my experience I don't see how aya can fall in this category, or why you would want to try.
A couple of grams of shrooms each would seem to be a much better idea for this kind of thing.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Having sex with someone you share a deep spiritual connection with, can be an incredibly profound and cosmic experience. It can be a truly spiritual, healing, or, i dare say, even sacred experience as well.

Uktimately, sex is a manifestation of love. That's what sex in it's truest form is.

I know that it can also be other, less wonderfull things. A commodity product, a power tool, a currency, a disposable good. But it doesn't have to be.

Yes indeed, but why do you need ayahuasca for this? Maybe it's irrational of me, but I view ayahuasca somewhat differently to other ceremonial psychedelics.
I've no issue with recreational usage, including sexual connection whilst partaking, but from my experience I don't see how aya can fall in this category, or why you would want to try.
A couple of grams of shrooms each would seem to be a much better idea for this kind of thing.

But why? What reasons compel you to feel this way. I'm of the camp that it's about how you use and/or do something. Sex can be a highly spiritual act. It can also be raunchy.

All the same, I think dose plays a role in all of this as well, which not much has been mentioned about...

One love

 

[OrangeEnergy]

But why? What reasons compel you to feel this way. I'm of the camp that it's about how you use and/or do something. Sex can be a highly spiritual act. It can also be raunchy.

All the same, I think dose plays a role in all of this as well, which not much has been mentioned about...

One love

Everything I learnt about aya before my first experience was about its spiritual nature, the lessons to be learnt, the truths to be found, the healing to be manifested. The tradition of who knows how long, passed from plants to shamans and on to the people, to be treated with great respect.
It just feels to me like having a sexual act as the focus of an aya ceremony is diminishing this, and not giving the respect it deserves.
For me (and these are simply my gut feelings, with no real evidence to back them up), ayahuasca is about finding answers to unknowns, cleansing your body, mind and soul. Giving yourself a reset.
I agree with what you say about sexual union and its capacity for bring deep spiritual connection, but I still fail to see why it needs to be brought into the realms of ayahuasca, as these spiritual connections can be part of sexual union without it. It seems to be taking ayahuasca out of the healing realm, and moving it into the recreational, which just does not sit well with me, regardless of the dose.
Also, moving away from the general conversation here, and into the specifics of the individual in question, who can't go for a day or two without at least knocking one out, even for a ceremony. Does that sound like the person has a healthy relationship with sex and sexual release? Not to me, so I'd have thought an aya ceremony would be far more useful to look at the root of this behaviour, rather than trying to mix the two together.
I would be interested to hear exactly what this person is hoping to get from the experience in the first place. Healing? Understanding? Cosmic union? A trippy shag?

 

[Voidmatrix]

Thank you for sharing about your experience and perspective. I'd like to unpack this with you a bit, and I hope it's okay.

Everything I learnt about aya before my first experience was about its spiritual nature, the lessons to be learnt, the truths to be found, the healing to be manifested. The tradition of who knows how long, passed from plants to shamans and on to the people, to be treated with great respect

Is it possible that there is more than one "right way?" Is it also possible that there were things that are true or pertinent that you were not taught or informed of for whatever reason? Does something being done the same way for long periods of time make it seem more relavent and authentic to you? Is it possible that there are "truths" to be found that you weren't informed of? So you find sex in it's totality to be disrespectful?

It just feels to me like having a sexual act as the focus of an aya ceremony is diminishing this, and not giving the respect it deserves.

What is your perspective on sex?

Giving yourself a reset.

Can sex not be a kind of reset? Is it possible by having psychedelic sex one is strengthening the effects of said reset?

I agree with what you say about sexual union and its capacity for bring deep spiritual connection, but I still fail to see why it needs to be brought into the realms of ayahuasca, as these spiritual connections can be part of sexual union without it. It seems to be taking ayahuasca out of the healing realm, and moving it into the recreational, which just does not sit well with me, regardless of the dose.

Is it not possible that while under the psychedelic influence, individuals can enrich said spiritual union and connection? Can sex not be a healing activity in and of itself?

And I don't think most of us are saying that it needs to be done.

It seems to be taking ayahuasca out of the healing realm, and moving it into the recreational, which just does not sit well with me, regardless of the dose.

There seems to be a stance of aya being more "sacred," "special," or "important" than other entheogens. Is this accurate? If so, is this not simply a subjective stance and a personal preference and perspective? What precludes aya from being used recreationally like mushrooms or cacti?

So, you'd feel the same if the context shifted to people being on a microdose or light dose of aya?

Also, moving away from the general conversation here, and into the specifics of the individual in question, who can't go for a day or two without at least knocking one out, even for a ceremony. Does that sound like the person has a healthy relationship with sex and sexual release? Not to me, so I'd have thought an aya ceremony would be far more useful to look at the root of this behaviour, rather than trying to mix the two together.

If this individual views their position on sex as a problem then I tend to agree with you. However sex and sex drives are complicated. There's no telling what kind of libido this individual has, nor if they are just lacking in the confidence that they can do without, say if it's habitual for them to have sex; it may be hard to imagine going without it because they're so used to it, when they very well may be able to go without.

I'm gonna go smoalk some harmalas and meditate now

One love

P.S. I'm not sure if you have already, but I encourage you to read some of endlessness's posts in this topic

 

[Toshido]

I wish I had the urge to have sex while under the influence of Psychedelics. I find that I would much rather stare at a moss covered rock and watch it breathe than to get freaky with someone. I had sex on LSD once with an ex girlfriend and we couldn't stop laughing at the concept of a meat stick entering a meat hole. It could have been that we were young and too hung up on the concept of sex rather than embracing each other fully. Out of my hundreds of mushroom and LSD trips I have never had the desire to have intercourse. BUT one time I masturbated in the woods on LSD and it was the most insane orgasm I've ever had. I even had to call a friend and tel them about it.

I find that on the come down or after the experience I get horny, but that's it. Maybe Aya would be different if it was a pharmahuasca with less of that body feeling you'd get from Chacruna leaves. That's just speculation though.

I would find it dizzying to try and have sex while hallucinations were overwhelming me. Just my opinion!

 

[OrangeEnergy]

Like I said, I'm not saying right or wrong, but this is my very strong gut response.
Is there any tradition of sexual union with aya? I don't know, but I've never heard of any, and was always advised to avoid release during the dieta. None of my ceremonies have been led by actual ayahuascero though, so maybe that advice was just the western interpretation. I can't say.

I love sex, with a person I connect with. That doesn't have to be a deep and meaningful connection, although as I get older, that is what I am looking for, but there needs to be that spark when our eyes meet. Shagging anything, just because, is not and has never been my thing.

Sex as a reset? I'm not so sure about that one. It can release the pressure, but that, to me, cannot even be talked about in even remotely similar terms to aya.

All the things you're saying about sexual union on psychedelics are quite possible, but like I said, I view aya as being different to other psychedelic experiences, to be treated with another level of respect. This is, again, just a strong gut feeling, but is not something I can see being changed.

Yes, sex can be a healing activity, but again, my question is, what are you trying to achieve by combining it with aya? It seems to me much more like a sensory pleasure craving than a genuine attempt for some kind of enlightenment.

As for the aya being more special, to me it is. Maybe this is to do with it being the first substance I took ceremonially, that has put me through the wringer like nothing else, but that has also given me understanding in a way I had never dreamed possible. There is no denying the download, eh?!
Also, on anything other than a very light dose, I don't see how the hell you could stay horny! Much of the time I was wondering why the hell I had done this to myself, not thinking about getting laid!

As for your position on the individual in question, that sounds like my inner addict talking! My personal issue is with marijuana, and, for the longest time, I wasn't even aware I had a problem. Then, when I was, I denied it, making up all kinds of excuses to keep using, even when I could see the damage it was causing to me and those I love. I did, eventually, do two ceremonies with the intention of helping me with this, which it did greatly.
Addicts (OK, maybe I should say this addict, but it definitely seems like a pattern) often do not see their problem for what it is, and when they do, they find many and various ways to deny and skirt it.
If this person really is unable to go without some form of release for even a day, it seems to me that the desire to have sex during a ceremony is just an extension of this habit, looking to enhance their addiction, rather than come to terms with it.
Having typed this, it's just struck me that maybe the idea of sexual union during a ceremony isn't totally wrong, but having it be a continuation of your patterns (and I'm not sure that anyone would say that being unable to literally go without anything for more than a day is a healthy state of mind?) sits extremely badly with me.

I'll have a look at endlessness's posts.
Peace.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I unfortunately can't respond as fully as I'd like at the moment because I have to leave for work.

However, I am wondering, how much would perspectives in this matter change if we were to change our rhetoric? Such as reframing terms such as "getting laid," or "horniness," etc. In my experience, more often than not, psychedelic sex has nothing to do with these kinds of ideas and the prose on sex they project. It's an entirely different stance, even with different goals mind. It's more in the veins of heartfelt lovemaking and union. It's something that doesn't really even possess hedonism. The physical pleasure is merely a bonus. I also tend to experience a deepening of the psychedelic experience thereafter.

Just some ideas.

One love

 

[hug454]

I can't say anything as per ayahuasca but being naked with someone while in the process of being mentally undressed by a psychedelic drug is pretty damned intense. If you can do it and profit from it, i don't see anything that takes away from a spiritual experience. It's a union. But my experiences match those of widderic. When i have tried to do it there has too much other stuff going on in my head and i would end up going off on tangents. But, yeah, i was very young at the times of doing and mostly we'd end up just lying naked in each others arms, talking crap and giggling.
I have never really thought about sexy times while tripping but if you can have profitable sex while in the zone, more power to you.

 

[dithyramb]

The respect mentioned here is about respecting the actual, real energetic process, which people have described as being powerfully engaged in inner work independent from outer (sexual) engagements.

Aya is a great teacher of respecting the energetic process in the moment. And after aya, I am not able to play around with any psychedelic anymore. Play, sexual engagement (playful or not) etc do have a place and time. Perhaps it can be time for it in an aya ceremony but given the nature of the experience, it would be very rare.

We cannot bend reality to the will of our egos. Some forces are wild, divine etc and we are the ones who have to surrender to them. For our own good.

 

[JackFrost6]

If someone is unable to go without sex for a couple of days, I presume that this is going on all through the lead-up to the ceremony, as well as having the intention of during the ceremony too?
My first question would be, what is this person looking to receive from the ceremony, if is not to address this specific issue?

I don't have any problem that needs treatment. Aya is a cleanse for me, I like to follow a diet even if I write that I don't know what to eat. I eat rice, potatoes, carrots, cucumber, apple, bananas.

3 days without sex is a problem, I have to settle only for sex. Even if I don't want to, my body reminds me again and again. I go to the ceremony, everything is fine but... when I start drinking Aya, I get a strong erection for the first time in a while. It goes away and calms down. But in the morning, people like to hug. The problem with the girl, because she hugged me and I got an erection again.

I have some experience with Aya, but as others write here, it hasn't changed this problem for me. I don't know if it can be changed, how to use this energy properly. Media, newspapers say it's healthy, masturbation every day or every other day. It's hard to say it's a problem when it works.