Smoking plastic - Minty Love's DpTek1

[Bob Sacamano]

Hi,

I'm trying extraction using Minty Love's DpTek1. These are the steps I'm taking:

1. Shred 100g of MHRB using a kitchen blender at medium speed.
2. Add 200ml of cleaning vinegar (7%, pH 2.3)
3. Freeze/thaw 3 times
4. Make a solution of 1L water, 110g NaOH and 190g NaCl. Wait for it to cool down to room temperature.
5. Add the MHRB and vinegar to the solution.
6. Add extra water of various temperatures to make a total of 1.75L at 20 °C.
7. Do 3 pulls with naphtha (140ml, 90ml, 90ml). (add, shake, get top layer with turkey baster)
8. Freeze, pour off the naphta, dry with a fan, and scrape
9. Dissolve in propylene glycol (PG) in a 1g / 3ml ratio. I tape the vial to a vibrator in an attempt to speed things up.
10. Put in my vaporizer, a Lost Vape Thelema Solo with a Hellvape Dead Rabbit V3 RTA. The coil consists of 316L stainless steel clapton (0.40 mm / 26 awg * 2 + 0.12 mm / 36 awg) wire, 6 turns around a diameter of 3.5 mm, giving 0.30 Ω resistance.
11. Wait 30 minutes for the cotton to be soaked and smoke it at 2.5 V (approx. 20 W). I use voltage mode so power is automatically a bit reduced when the coil gets hot.

I've tried it multiple times. Something goes wrong. I just tried it and it is as if I'm smoking plastic. I don't know what I'm actually smoking.

Observations:

• I've had a few good trips with this method. But often I only get minor effects from the DMT before stuff gets poisonous.
• When I exhale I see a lot of gray/white smoke.
• The DMT does not smell good. I can only describe it as "chemical".
• The DMT crystals (or what they're supposed to be) are clear white. No or almost no goo.

What I've tried:

• Other bark
• Other NaOH
• Dry longer
• Smoke only PG without DMT. No bad taste.
• After getting the "DMT", redissolve it in naphta, then move it to vinegar, add NaOH to make it basic again, and then again naphtha pulls. Makes the bad smell less, but doesn't solve it.

Any idea of what may go wrong? I'm wondering if the blender causes the bark to heat up and thereby ruin it.

 

[Sakkadelic]

Hey Bob,

It's most likely a problem with vaping method/technique. Plastic taste and nasty smell are signs of burnt dmt.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Here a video where I put 2.5 V on it for a few seconds. Is this how it's supposed to look? I already don't like the smell of the powder, so I think it already goes wrong before vaping.

 

[fractals4life]

I have no experience of that sort of vape so can't really say if it should look like that. My advice is to try turning the voltage down: if the coil is boiling away juice faster than it can be replenished by wicking then the temperature can rise above the boiling point locally and you could get burning of the DMT.

The worst that can happen with too low a voltage is that you don't get a high enough dose for the effect you want. So start low and work up and see if that helps.

Also you could try adding citric acid to the juice to make DMT citrate, I've heard it's much smoother, read around this post : Research - DMT salts for e-juice

 

[Ernestine]

Here a video where I put 2.5 V on it for a few seconds. Is this how it's supposed to look? I already don't like the smell of the powder, so I think it already goes wrong before vaping.

Can't you set it to power mode and use wattage rather than voltage?

Have you tried running the juice through a syringe filter?

 

[vaderizer]

Is that RTA the only device you have? Do you have a way to vape just the spice with no PG added? I have a feeling your spice is fine. It'd probably be good to confirm that first if possible.

Have you extracted or vaped deems previously, or is this your first time? Do you have a baseline idea of what clean spice is "supposed" to smell like? How do you know that "chemical" smell you're smelling is not correct? Many people compare the smell to rubber tires or new sneakers.

I love the smell. My wife think it smells disgusting.

The odor of your extracted spice is a difficult thing to judge quality by, unless you know what it generally smells like.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Thanks for your responses all! I'll think about what my next step will be. I'll report back if I got it fixed! Meanwhile extra insights are welcome of course!

I have no experience of that sort of vape so can't really say if it should look like that. My advice is to try turning the voltage down: if the coil is boiling away juice faster than it can be replenished by wicking then the temperature can rise above the boiling point locally and you could get burning of the DMT.

The worst that can happen with too low a voltage is that you don't get a high enough dose for the effect you want. So start low and work up and see if that helps.

Good idea. On previous batches 20W worked fine, so that's what I used again (although via voltage mode). This time I did power it for only a few seconds and increase power time gradually. It seems to go from no effect at all to burning "plastic" very quickly though. I could try it again, but even if the powder was okay I might have already ruined the stuff in the vape and I may have to make new.

Also you could try adding citric acid to the juice to make DMT citrate, I've heard it's much smoother, read around this post : Research - DMT salts for e-juice

Nice, I'll definitely try that sooner or later.

Can't you set it to power mode and use wattage rather than voltage?

Yes, I'll do that since it will make stuff simpler.

Have you tried running the juice through a syringe filter?

I've tried that a few times before, but I never managed to do it and I gave up on trying it. It could help, since the juice didn't look entirely clean. It's supposed to be smokable without filtering it though.

Is that RTA the only device you have? Do you have a way to vape just the spice with no PG added? I have a feeling your spice is fine. It'd probably be good to confirm that first if possible.

I do have a kind of bong someone made for DMT usage.

Have you extracted or vaped deems previously, or is this your first time? Do you have a baseline idea of what clean spice is "supposed" to smell like? How do you know that "chemical" smell you're smelling is not correct? Many people compare the smell to rubber tires or new sneakers.

I've bought DMT multiple times before. And it always smelled really nice, not like the stuff I made. Also it was always a bit yellow, while I only get pure white. Also my stuff seems to be more shiny. I never used PG+RTA to smoke the stuff I bought though, only a pipe or bong. I tried some extraction with Lextek before. I never got sufficient quality with that either, and I switched to DpTek1 because I like not having to cook or filter it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Hey Bob,

It's most likely a problem with vaping method/technique. Plastic taste and nasty smell are signs of burnt dmt.

I'm pretty sure I put too much power on it. But the reason for that is that I barely got any effect when using lower power.

Is that RTA the only device you have? Do you have a way to vape just the spice with no PG added? I have a feeling your spice is fine. It'd probably be good to confirm that first if possible.

I just tried the e-mesh method using the Wotofo Profile RDTA. I get the same effect as when smoking it with PG on low power: Just a little dull in the head, no welcoming trip.

I also tried straight to base: Soak the MHRB in basic water for a few days and then do naphtha pulls. I get way less spice then with Minty Love's method. It looks a bit yellow. I just tried to smoke it using e-mesh, and it's way stronger than the white spice I got using ML's method.

I'm wondering if the blender causes the bark to heat up and thereby ruin it.

I skipped the blending step this time. So this is not it.

Any idea's on what went wrong? Or do I just have to try an other tek?

It strikes me that the acid in this tek is not diluted. Could it be that a pH of 2.3 is too low? I've seen teks that use acid with pH 4.

 

[Sakkadelic]

I'm pretty sure I put too much power on it. But the reason for that is that I barely got any effect when using lower power.

It is strange the effects are minimal for this batch, are you still getting dense vapor at lower power? And does the vapor (at low power) taste/feel different than the good batch?

 

[Deleted member 73149]

Here I see a great deal of user error.
First you need to mix PG with VG, not straight PG. That is for carts, doesn't work with RTAs.
Second, why are you going with single coil on a dual coil deck? There are better alternatives out there than the dead rabbit. I suggest you stick to dual coil and you'll have a better chance at "breaking through".
Third, why SS coil? The thelema solo is known to have problems with SS. If you bought the tank new you should have 2 Ni80 fused clapton coils 28x3+36 or something. They are perfect, wonder why they're included in the package..
Fourth, why on earth you're going voltage? Stick those two coils in it, set it to power mode between 30 and 35W, wick tight in the coil but thin the tails out a bit, mix 600mg of DMT with 1.5g of PG and 1g of VG, take a 6-8s toke and come back with a smile on your face.

Hi,

I'm trying extraction using Minty Love's DpTek1. These are the steps I'm taking:

1. Shred 100g of MHRB using a kitchen blender at medium speed.
2. Add 200ml of cleaning vinegar (7%, pH 2.3)
3. Freeze/thaw 3 times
4. Make a solution of 1L water, 110g NaOH and 190g NaCl. Wait for it to cool down to room temperature.
5. Add the MHRB and vinegar to the solution.
6. Add extra water of various temperatures to make a total of 1.75L at 20 °C.
7. Do 3 pulls with naphtha (140ml, 90ml, 90ml). (add, shake, get top layer with turkey baster)
8. Freeze, pour off the naphta, dry with a fan, and scrape
9. Dissolve in propylene glycol (PG) in a 1g / 3ml ratio. I tape the vial to a vibrator in an attempt to speed things up.
10. Put in my vaporizer, a Lost Vape Thelema Solo with a Hellvape Dead Rabbit V3 RTA. The coil consists of 316L stainless steel clapton (0.40 mm / 26 awg * 2 + 0.12 mm / 36 awg) wire, 6 turns around a diameter of 3.5 mm, giving 0.30 Ω resistance.
11. Wait 30 minutes for the cotton to be soaked and smoke it at 2.5 V (approx. 20 W). I use voltage mode so power is automatically a bit reduced when the coil gets hot.

I've tried it multiple times. Something goes wrong. I just tried it and it is as if I'm smoking plastic. I don't know what I'm actually smoking.

Observations:

• I've had a few good trips with this method. But often I only get minor effects from the DMT before stuff gets poisonous.
• When I exhale I see a lot of gray/white smoke.
• The DMT does not smell good. I can only describe it as "chemical".
• The DMT crystals (or what they're supposed to be) are clear white. No or almost no goo.

What I've tried:

• Other bark
• Other NaOH
• Dry longer
• Smoke only PG without DMT. No bad taste.
• After getting the "DMT", redissolve it in naphta, then move it to vinegar, add NaOH to make it basic again, and then again naphtha pulls. Makes the bad smell less, but doesn't solve it.

Any idea of what may go wrong? I'm wondering if the blender causes the bark to heat up and thereby ruin it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Look, I've been booted from Minty's server, but can guarantee that his method works.
Here I see a great deal of user error.

Alight, that's great to hear! This confirms what the others have been saying in this thread.

First you need to mix PG with VG, not straight PG. That is for carts, doesn't work with RTAs.

Ah, this could be a big one! I've tried to smoke PG and a mixture of PG and VG, both without DMT. I liked the taste of plain PG better, and since DMT dissolves in PG and not in VG, I thought, incorrectly, that using only PG would work. I just checked Minty's DMT juice guide and he mentions this. Must have missed it or forgotten about it.

Adding the correct proportion of VG will not only soften the vapour on the throat and lungs, but (from recent comparison tests) even appears to massively benefit the carrier properties of the juice - (i.e. transporting the Dimitri to the lungs without breaking down and allowing partial condensation in the airways en-route to lungs). This doesn't seem to apply to carts, but can make it much easier to obtain a euphoric and colourful dinitri experience when using sub ohm tanks. From experience, it will be difficult if not impossible to obtain such trips if using only PG in sub ohm tanks (not carts).

Second, why are you going with single coil on a dual coil deck? There are better alternatives out there than the dead rabbit. I suggest you stick to dual coil and you'll have a better chance at "breaking through".

With "better alternatives" you mean for single coil usage, right? Because the Dead Rabbit seems pretty nice. I think I went with single coil, because I saw Minty do it or talk about it. But since I learned here that I probably burnt my DMT, I switched to dual coil a few days ago in order to divide the power over a greater surface. Yeah, I'll stick with dual coil.

Third, why SS coil? The thelema solo is known to have problems with SS. If you bought the tank new you should have 2 Ni80 fused clapton coils 28x3+36 or something. They are perfect, wonder why they're included in the package..

I've looked a bit on forums. Some prefer Ni80, others SS. I just picked one. The problem that the vape has seems only a bit of power reduction when the coil heats up, because the vape doesn't account for the increased resistance. Is it just this or do you think Ni80 is better anyway? I still have the Ni80 coils that came with the tank. I also have Ni80 wire that I can make coils from, 2*26 awg + 32 awg. I like to make my coils a little wider, ⌀ 3.5mm, so that I can easier pull the wick through. Should be alright, right?

Fourth, why on earth you're going voltage?

As I said, "I use voltage mode so power is automatically a bit reduced when the coil gets hot.". So basically do the same thing as the SS power bug, but intentionally. I may be wrong, but to me it makes sense to start with higher power and lower the power when the coils get hot. However, I do realize that this effect may be minor, may cause other problems, and makes operating the device harder. So I already switched back to power mode. My last vaping attempts I did with two coils at 35W.

Stick those two coils in it, set it to power mode between 30 and 35W, wick tight in the coil but thin the tails out a bit, mix 600mg of DMT with 1.5g of PG and 1g of VG, take a 6-8s toke and come back with a smile on your face.

Will do! I'm out of DMT, so I'll try to add some VG to my existing juice and pour it over.

Anyway, thanks, marry Christmas, and I'll keep you updated!

 

[Deleted member 73149]

Alight, that's great to hear! This confirms what the others have been saying in this thread.


Ah, this could be a big one! I've tried to smoke PG and a mixture of PG and VG, both without DMT. I liked the taste of plain PG better, and since DMT dissolves in PG and not in VG, I thought, incorrectly, that using only PG would work. I just checked Minty's DMT juice guide and he mentions this. Must have missed it or forgotten about it.



With "better alternatives" you mean for single coil usage, right? Because the Dead Rabbit seems pretty nice. I think I went with single coil, because I saw Minty do it or talk about it. But since I learned here that I probably burnt my DMT, I switched to dual coil a few days ago in order to divide the power over a greater surface. Yeah, I'll stick with dual coil.


I've looked a bit on forums. Some prefer Ni80, others SS. I just picked one. The problem that the vape has seems only a bit of power reduction when the coil heats up, because the vape doesn't account for the increased resistance. Is it just this or do you think Ni80 is better anyway? I still have the Ni80 coils that came with the tank. I also have Ni80 wire that I can make coils from, 2*26 awg + 32 awg. I like to make my coils a little wider, ⌀ 3.5mm, so that I can easier pull the wick through. Should be alright, right?


As I said, "I use voltage mode so power is automatically a bit reduced when the coil gets hot.". So basically do the same thing as the SS power bug, but intentionally. I may be wrong, but to me it makes sense to start with higher power and lower the power when the coils get hot. However, I do realize that this effect may be minor, may cause other problems, and makes operating the device harder. So I already switched back to power mode. My last vaping attempts I did with two coils at 35W.


Will do! I'm out of DMT, so I'll try to add some VG to my existing juice and pour it over.

Anyway, thanks, marry Christmas, and I'll keep you updated!

So you basically corrected all your errors, it should work now.
Yes I meant better alternatives for single coil, in dual coil the dead rabbit is unbeatable.
You're correct about SS having the only drawback of decreasing power while it gets hotter. Ni80 is not inherently Better but offers more resistance all else equal. I'm in the camp of deciding myself instead of letting the coils decide. If you like to have more power at the beginning to shorten ramp-up time, you can use the wonderful VPC mode of your thelema. I don't use it and instead pre-fire for a couple of seconds until I hear the crackle and then release and start my toke within 3-5 seconds. Works every time.
About larger coils why not, if they fit the deck and recieve sufficient airflow. Don't use the 3mm shoelace cotton though, you need to roll your own and thin the tails out so that they fit in their "channel" leading to the juice wells, otherwise a burnt hit is in order.
Also, check this tool for calculating the resistance of the coils you want to make and remember that you cannot go below 0.3 ohm each because the thelema doesn't work very well below 0.15 ohm

Wire wizard | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Build your wire from the ground up. Combine materials, twist, clapton, go crazy. Detailed results including TCR, equivalents for Ni200 mods, and CSV export.

www.steam-engine.org

With the 26x2+32 you'll be close to that value with 5-6 turns and safely above if you go for 3.5mm instead of 3.0.

 

[Ernestine]

Look, I've been booted from Minty's server, but can guarantee that his method works.
Here I see a great deal of user error.
First you need to mix PG with VG, not straight PG. That is for carts, doesn't work with RTAs.
Second, why are you going with single coil on a dual coil deck? There are better alternatives out there than the dead rabbit. I suggest you stick to dual coil and you'll have a better chance at "breaking through".
Third, why SS coil? The thelema solo is known to have problems with SS. If you bought the tank new you should have 2 Ni80 fused clapton coils 28x3+36 or something. They are perfect, wonder why they're included in the package..
Fourth, why on earth you're going voltage? Stick those two coils in it, set it to power mode between 30 and 35W, wick tight in the coil but thin the tails out a bit, mix 600mg of DMT with 1.5g of PG and 1g of VG, take a 6-8s toke and come back with a smile on your face.

I have no issue using straight PG in my dual coil RTA. Some people complain PG is harsh by itself and a bit of VG smooths things out.

 

[Deleted member 73149]

Good for you. I'm sure there are many different methods that work. Here, since OP mentioned Minty Love, we're trying to achieve a good result with that method that was tested as efficient and smooth by thousands of people.
The wattage I suggested, the coils, the pre-heating technique etc work only with VG added, otherwise I'm more than happy if you take over helping OP not wasting DMT and reaching the desired intensity. Whilst, if your sole intent is to create a little bit of confusion with personal opinions stated as fact, I gently ask you to refrain.

 

[Ernestine]

There's no need for the tone. I'm not here to be scolded like a child. I'll state my experiences and the OP can draw their own conclusions and decide upon a way forward as an adult. You can continue or go away as you like.

I follow Minty's method for the most part in extraction and use but vary to suit myself. I find the vaping method works equally well with straight PG, same wattages, coils etc.

 

[sinofs]

Here I see a great deal of user error.
First you need to mix PG with VG, not straight PG. That is for carts, doesn't work with RTAs.
Second, why are you going with single coil on a dual coil deck? There are better alternatives out there than the dead rabbit. I suggest you stick to dual coil and you'll have a better chance at "breaking through".
Third, why SS coil? The thelema solo is known to have problems with SS. If you bought the tank new you should have 2 Ni80 fused clapton coils 28x3+36 or something. They are perfect, wonder why they're included in the package..
Fourth, why on earth you're going voltage? Stick those two coils in it, set it to power mode between 30 and 35W, wick tight in the coil but thin the tails out a bit, mix 600mg of DMT with 1.5g of PG and 1g of VG, take a 6-8s toke and come back with a smile on your face.

you're suggesting a 1 to 2.5 mix of D. to pg/vg... isn't that a little strong for dual coil setup? I would think 1 to 4 or even 1 to 5 would be plenty. unless I'm getting the math wrong of your numbers

 

[Bob Sacamano]

you're suggesting a 1 to 2.5 mix of D. to pg/vg... isn't that a little strong for dual coil setup? I would think 1 to 4 or even 1 to 5 would be plenty. unless I'm getting the math wrong of your numbers

He said 600mg of DMT, so that's approximately 1 : 4.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Time for a little update! Based mostly on the response of our beloved deleted member 73139 (Lazlov or something?), I've changed a few things in the way I smoke my spice:

• The nasty plastic taste seems to come from burnt DMT. To prevent burning while not having to reduce power, I'm going for extra heat surface: two coils of each 7 turns.
• I'm going for nichrome heating wire (2*26 awg + 32 awg). Altough there is probably nothing wrong with stainless steel, the fact that the resistance of nichrome does not depend much on temperature makes it easier to rule out potential problems. I did think of this though: If the resistance increases when temperature increases (as happens with SS), then a hotter part of a coil gets more power per length unit than a colder part, which causes a postive feedback loop and makes the hotter part even hotter. Maybe it doesn't matter a lot, but in theory, by this reasoning, a nichrome coil would have a more even heat distribution than a SS coil.
• As recommended by several people, I'm going for a 60 : 40 ratio of PG : VG. Only PG is not sufficient, VG plays a significant role. I'm using 1 mg of DMT per 4 ml of PG/VG.
• I'm cutting the cotton to make it not too tight or too loose.
• I'm applying power around 30/35 W.

Unfortunately I do not have the desired effect yet. When I got the spice from my new batch, I first tried to smoke it at 30 W. I got barely any effect. From earlier times of smoking DMT I remember that a little bit of effect already got me nice in the mood. Since I didn't even get that, I didn't really feel like continuing experimenting with this batch.

But, for research purposes, I did fire up my vape again a few days later. 35 watts this time. Still not much to write home about. I got a little effect, but I didn't like it. It was not a warm welcome. My ceiling fan turned into a creature with a bit of a negative energy: it was literally sucking the air from the room. Now I always got my feet on the ground and I can be amused by negative DMT creatures, but this stops me from trying to vape at an even higher power.

At this point it's not clear what goes wrong. Is it the spice or the way I smoke it? Am I just having bad luck with my plant material? Maybe I got some good spice before and wasted it with an inferior smoking method. I'm not giving up and I'll keep on trying! For my next batch I'll give my blender some more freedom to cut the holy plants into oblivion. I'll also try citric acid instead of acetic acid. It may not make much of a difference, but since I got food-grade citric acid, this could be a nice improvement.

Especially for reference to future readers that may have the same problem, I'll keep y'all updated!

 

[Ernestine]

There's a confusing overlap between saying you don't get any effects and saying that you get mild effects but they're too negative?

I find around 30W a good power level and at 1:4 dilution it should be plenty strong enough. Have you checked your coils for hotspots and strummed them to equalise heat? I think nichrome might be a further unnecessary complication, a rabbithole down which you could waste time and effort. If your creating vapour without burning it then

Your extract picture looks like you have achieved a decent product so I would consider vaping technique and your approach to the experience as more likely reasons for the issue. Are you inhaling deep into your lungs and holding it?

It's really quite hard to end up with white to beige crystalline product that's not predominantly DMT. Failed extractions tend to result in nothing or goo (which is often active anyway).

Are you also making use of Minty's help? He's very generous with supporting people following his guides and videos although he does sometimes get irritated when people deviate from his recommended strategy! I think he does video calls etc.

 

[Qoniaq]

Is that RTA the only device you have? Do you have a way to vape just the spice with no PG added? I have a feeling your spice is fine. It'd probably be good to confirm that first if possible.

Have you extracted or vaped deems previously, or is this your first time? Do you have a baseline idea of what clean spice is "supposed" to smell like? How do you know that "chemical" smell you're smelling is not correct? Many people compare the smell to rubber tires or new sneakers.

I love the smell. My wife think it smells disgusting.

The odor of your extracted spice is a difficult thing to judge quality by, unless you know what it generally smells like.

It is, hands down, the loveliest most enchanting smell in the universe. Full stop. The S-tier perfume. Ambrosia. I could bathe in it. It it smells bad, it must be burning.
Rubber tires or shoes?.. Dang! More like ancient mycelium wrapped in prehistoric plants, with a hint of jasmine, fine peat, nutmeg, saffron and then doused in history and culture. The smell of the womb. Genesis. It smells like wisdom. I carry a cart with me for the occasional 'tasty'. A 1 second or so puff, sub-effect dose, just to breath it in slowly and savour it as I let it out my nose as slowly as I can. Yum! Did one this moring. Certainly again at lunch break.
Why are you not just putting your DMTG mixture into a simple 510 cart? Load and explore. No hassles. I am curious as to why folks choose these fiddly methods instead of just making a batch of djuice and making carts? So simple. Portable, in your pocket and ready when you are. Fool proof. You can make them as strong as you like.
I am open to learning, maybe I am missing something? But these methods are like decades old. We have better now, no? You all let me know, I wanna learn.