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Solvent Inhalation

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hamhurricane

Rising Star
It is pretty obvious that solvent inhalation is dangerous, but can someone give me an idea of exactly how much risk i am putting myself under working with Naptha, Xylene, Ammonia etc.
In general I'm quite neurotic about my health, and i do what i can to avoid inhaling fumes (opening the windows wide, taking breaks to get fresh air) but i still feel light headed, dizzy and generally dumb at the end of any extraction (i've only done a few.) I'm afraid i have already done myself damage, although im probably just being a hypochondriac.
How far do you all go to protect yourselves? Do you wear respirators, work outside, use fans, wear gloves all of those things? or more?
 
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i work with organic solvents on an almost daily basis and im totally sane no really though just stay in a well ventilated area, its not like your being chronically exposed to high doses. theres no reason to be worrying yourself.
Click to expand...

Actually, those things can have a toxicity accumulation effect over the long-term. You may not have cancer YET, but that doesn't mean you aren't well on your way.

That stuff is really, really bad for you, even in minute amounts. Sure it's not gonna kill you, but the subtle effects are there. Plus your intentions affect the outcome of your magickal operations. Taking all this into consideration, it seems advisable to look for alternative solvents.

Fortunately, Swim has found one.

D-limonene, the oil of orange peels, works to pull DMT from basified soln.

Here's a comparison of their MSDS profiles:

Toxicology data for Toluene

Toxic by inhalation, ingestion or by absorption through skin. Serious irritant. Experimental teratogen.

ORL-RAT LD50 636 mg kg-1
IPR-RAT LD50 1332 mg kg-1
ORL-HMN LDLO 50 mg kg-1
IPR-MUS LD50 59 mg kg-1
IHL-MAM LC50 30 g m-3

R11 Highly flammable
R23 Toxic by inhalation.
R24 Toxic in contact with skin.
R25 Toxic if swallowed.

Toluene (Avantor is setting science in motion for a better world | Avantor)
Emergency Overview
--------------------------
POISON! DANGER! HARMFUL OR FATAL IF SWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. VAPOR HARMFUL. FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. MAY AFFECT LIVER, KIDNEYS, BLOOD SYSTEM, OR CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT.

Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------

Inhalation:
Inhalation may cause irritation of the upper respiratory tract. Symptoms of overexposure may include fatigue, confusion, headache, dizziness and drowsiness. Peculiar skin sensations (e. g. pins and needles) or numbness may be produced. Very high concentrations may cause unconsciousness and death.
Ingestion:
Swallowing may cause abdominal spasms and other symptoms that parallel over-exposure from inhalation. Aspiration of material into the lungs can cause chemical pneumonitis, which may be fatal.
Skin Contact:
Causes irritation. May be absorbed through skin.
Eye Contact:
Causes severe eye irritation with redness and pain.
Chronic Exposure:
Reports of chronic poisoning describe anemia, decreased blood cell count and bone marrow hypoplasia. Liver and kidney damage may occur. Repeated or prolonged contact has a defatting action, causing drying, redness, dermatitis. Exposure to toluene may affect the developing fetus.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or impaired liver or kidney function may be more susceptible to the effects of this substance. Alcoholic beverage consumption can enhance the toxic effects of this substance.

Xylenes (Avantor is setting science in motion for a better world | Avantor)

DANGER! HARMFUL OR FATAL IF SWALLOWED. VAPOR HARMFUL. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM. CAUSES SEVERE EYE IRRITATION. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. MAY BE HARMFUL IF ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. CHRONIC EXPOSURE CAN CAUSE ADVERSE LIVER, KIDNEY, AND BLOOD EFFECTS. FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR.

Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------

Inhalation:
Inhalation of vapors may be irritating to the nose and throat. Inhalation of high concentrations may result in nausea, vomiting, headache, ringing in the ears, and severe breathing difficulties which may be delayed in onset. Substernal pain, cough, and hoarseness are also reported. High vapor concentrations are anesthetic and central nervous system depressants.
Ingestion:
Ingestion causes burning sensation in mouth and stomach, nausea, vomiting and salivation. Minute amounts aspirated into the lungs can produce a severe hemorrhagic pneumonitis with severe pulmonary injury or death.
Skin Contact:
Skin contact results in loss of natural oils and often results in a characteristic dermatitis. May be absorbed through the skin.
Eye Contact:
Vapors cause eye irritation. Splashes cause severe irritation, possible corneal burns and eye damage.
Chronic Exposure:
Chronic inhalation can cause headache, loss of appetite, nervousness and pale skin. Repeated or prolonged skin contact may cause a skin rash. Repeated exposure of the eyes to high concentrations of vapor may cause reversible eye damage. Repeated exposure can damage bone marrow, causing low blood cell count. May damage the liver and kidneys.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems, or impaired liver, kidney, blood, or respiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of the substance.

Naptha http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/NA/naphtha.html

Harmful if swallowed or inhaled. May contain benzene, which is a carcinogen. Skin contact may lead to drying or dermatitis. Chronic exposure may cause CNS damage. Skin, respiratory and eye irritant. Typical PEL 100 ppm.

R20 Harmful by inhalation.
R22 Harmful if swallowed.
R36 Irritating to eyes.
R37 Irritating to respiratory system.
R38 Irritating to skin.

VM&P Naptha (http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C2148.html)
Conditions aggravated/target organs: Toxic! Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Persons with preexisting skin, eye and respiratory conditions will be more susceptible. Acute: Dizziness, headache, respiratory tract irritation, nausea, GI tract irritation, vomiting, diarrhea, skin and eye irritation. Chronic: Dermatitis, eye damage, possible neurological damage, other physiological damage.


Now, compare those to:


limonene (http://www.pcl.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/LI/limonene.html)

Harmful if swallowed. Skin, eye and respiratory irritant. May act as a sensitizer.

ORL-RAT LD50 5000 mg kg-1

R10 Flammable.
R22 Harmful if swallowed.
R36 Irritating to eyes.
R37 Irritating to respiratory system.
R38 Irritating to skin.

That's it. No testes shriveling up, no organ failure, no retardation, no cancer... (edit: removed commentary not relevant to this post)

Plus limonene is renewable and sustainable... (edit: removed commentary not relevant to this post)

Plus we don't have to bomb Arab nations to get limonene....

Plus your house smells like oranges instead of dead dinosaur farts.

Now, that having been said, here's a link to Swim's old limonene tek (updated version coming soon!):


Feel free to send me any questions that you would like for me to relay to Swim.
 
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A friend of mine has been working on an evaporation vessel. Basically you create a cardboard cutout of a window sill and tape a garbage bag around the lining. Then you slip the evaporation vessel into it and the outside air will circulate within the bag, but the window will be sealed off from your indoor environment.

Also, if you still want to go with petrochemicals (I recommend everyone be trying limonene if it can get the job done), go for odorless mineral spirits. Like I said above, it evaporates 3x slower, and it doesn't have the toxic aromatic hexane in it (well, the brand I used. check the MSDS). It's less toxic for two reasons: it evaporates slower and thereby limits your exposure, and it is purer.

Also, buy a gas mask, and use gloves. The industrial masks will have smell tests that make sure yours is working properly.
 
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im exposed to organic solvents in my work. im not saying they are harmless and that one should not be as safe as possible. if i spent all my days worrying about it thats gonna suck so i was trying to reassure the guy who started this thread thats hes fine.

whenever you bbq food you make carcinogens, if theres mold in your kitchen you inhale potent carcinogens, if people smoke around you your exposed to carcinogens. i dont spend all my days worrying about these things either. but yes please be safe when working with organic solvents but your not going to die if you inhale a bit of toluene or hexane.
 
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SyZyGyPSy said:
Plus your house smells like oranges instead of dead dinosaur farts.
Click to expand...
lololol :lol:


SyZyGyPSy said:
(updated version coming soon!
Click to expand...
can't wait to try it , my only problem is , i still couldn't find limonene anywhere:( ,
could you give a link for that ? since i read your first post about it i was really interested in doing it 8)
 
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Thanks a lot for that helpful advice!!! i second the request for a lemonine source (PM me if necessary) I hate to be a skeptic but whats the catch? lower yields? Is it very expensive or will it add extra steps to the noman tek? if it wont cost me an arm on a leg and will save me from brain damage im ready to hop on board!
 
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well a quick google search yielded a supplier of d-lemonene, at 30 dollars a gallon the price is totally affordable IF it allows one to use the same porportions of lemonene as naptha (eg about 150ml for a 50g bark extraction)
can someone quickly answer this question? can d-lemonine be substituted for naptha in the noman tek, same quantities? a bit more?
thank you
 
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Yeah limonene is totally safe to ingest in small amounts... there's a supplement of coenzyme Q10 on the market that boasts of containing 100mg d-limonene, which it claims promotes healthy cell division. Obviously you don't wanna chug a glass of it or huff concentrated fumes or anything, but you get the point. Just imagine ingesting 100mg of naptha or toluene - UGH!

You're right though there is a catch... the limonene tek as Swim's designed it is basically for pharmahuasca. Freeze precip doesn't seem to work (more experiments with higher saturation may be necessary to make sure though), and limo doesn't seem to wanna evap cleanly. So far the only way Swim has succeeded in aquiring freebase using limo is to add lab grade ethanol to the limo, which then pulls the spice, and then evapping the ETOH to reveal freebase magick (and quite potent magick at that).

However, Swim doesn't feel this is a problem. He actually considers pharmahuasca the proper way to work with mimosa and rue spirits. He started off smoking freebase like everyone else, and sure, it's a wild ride. But then he developed this pharmahuasca technique based on some guidance from the mimosa spirit (he felt she was showing him the "proper" way to work with her, and that she didn't particularly appreciate being put through petroleum). Ever since then his life has improved so dramatically there's really no way to describe it. It's like all the healing he's recieved from other entheogens throughout the years (well over a decade), rolled up and compressed into a ball, then pumped through an amplifier, and multiplied exponentially by a factor too astronomical to estimate, then compressed into only a few months. When he looks at the (relatively) miserable being he was before this magick came into his life, he almost can't believe that was really him! (And it's not like he was really that bad off before, he was only "miserable" in comparison to the way he is now. Perhaps "inhibited" is a better word... Mama Jurema has taught him how to live life, and how to love it!)

Swim still has a few g of freebase laying around that he ever-so-occasionally dips into for special ceremonies or rituals (last time it was the "dark" stuff during the eclipse), or to turn somebody on who really wants to have the experience. But when it comes to healing, there's nothing like the pharma magick. Even the extraction process becomes magickal and healing, instead of feeling like something toxic/dangerous/naughty like it did back when he was working with petrochems.

Limonene seems to pull the perfect balance of plant compounds, full-spectrum Juremagick. Yields are huge, Swim gets ridiculous amounts using this stuff. Half a pound of mimosa bark powder from the right galaxy provides enough tryptamagick for about fifty full-blown sessions. You can heal your entire neighborhood for less than a hundred bucks! And that's factoring in the cost of rue, limo, NaOH, etc. Swim has been providing free ceremonies for anyone interested, and has healed all sorts of minor ailments (he's yet to have a chance to take on any major ones), both psychological and physiological. This stuff seems to have what Dennis McKenna calls "immunomodulatory" effects, meaning it stimulates the body and mind to heal itself.

Cost-wise, limonene is great. When using the proposed tek, and salting out the magick with vinegar, the limo can be recycled several times... basically forever, though eventually it does get saturated with plant oils which can cause some emulsions... but there's ways of dealing with that, which will be covered as soon as the updated version of the tek is completed. So basically, for thirty bucks you can get a gallon of limo that will probably last you for forever. For even less, you can get a quart, just to try it with. Trust me, you'll be back for more.

Swim's really into this stuff (it's also great for cleaning, and as a multipurpose solvent... Swim uses it to mop his floors, etc), so he just ordered a shitload of it earlier today from greenterpene.com (I hope it's ok to post this here? Please PM me if it's not!). The five gallons he has on the way now should last him for the rest of his life. Plus he ordered a sample pack to experiment with the other natural terpenes they offer... perhaps one will prove useful in aquiring freebase?

I'm sure there's a natural way to get freebase that's more practical than the lab grade ETOH method outlined above. But given that Swim's interests are primarily in the realm of healing, he hasn't been motivated to look too hard for a way to get freebase when he almost considers it a waste of spice, simply because he knows the healing it can be used for in salt form.

Consider how much things have improved in the past few years since Quantum Tantra's tek was the standard! If we start working on this as a community, I'm sure we can figure out natural ways to do whatever we want with this stuff.

I realize these are grand claims I'm making, as far as the benefits of pharmahuasca from limonene vs. smoking freebase spice. But I'm confident that the magick will speak for itself... I'm just waiting to hear someone else on this forum try it and back me up! I know other old skool spice smokers who have tried this and agree, there's really no comparison. For a crazy, mind-blowing 5-minute experience, smoke the freebase. For a magickal, healing, life-changing experience... the limo-pharma tek's the way to go. 8)

I will be glad to answer any questions anyone has about working with limonene. The whole reason I started posting on this board was to promote its use. Please feel free to send ANY questions my way, it's what I'm here for. 😉
 
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thanks for your wealth of information! i agree that pharmahuasca is a better healing tool but i think both the oral and smoked experience have a time and and place, thus i value them equally. But I also think smoked freebase in conjunction with a MAOI is possibly the most productive method of all, so its important for me to be able to produce freebase spice.

is there a dosage difference between the freebase and the salt when taken orally? generally people seem to recommend 200mg or more but when SWIM tried 75mg of the freebase with a pharmaceutical MAOI, his mind was unexpectedly blown into a thousand pieces...not sure why.

again does anyone have an idea if limonene could be substituted in the noman tek? (which calls for 1mg naptha per g of bark)
 
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hamhurricane said:
generally people seem to recommend 200mg or more but when SWIM tried 75mg of the freebase with a pharmaceutical MAOI, his mind was unexpectedly blown into a thousand pieces...not sure why.
Click to expand...

Some people are just more sensitive to these things than others. For instance a friend of mine always starts with just half of what more experienced travellers recommend and finds that is plenty strong. (Might even go a quarter if he wanted light.)

I say it's always better to start with too little, and then you can up it later, than to start with too much which could blow you away.

Travel safe!
 
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cool yea i didnt mean to sound all harse and anti other methods haha.

so far someone who isnt me has only experimented with the freebase but finds it too rough and quick for focusing and learning. actually ive been invited to attending my first ayahuasca ceremony in the coming weeks under shamans guidance. i feel trying it will be a proper introduction and will consider new avenues of experience after. the shamans also do say its the plants that guide them how to use them. probaly what happened in your case :)
 
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