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Spice = Dune?
- Thread starter Kartikay
- Start date
Dimitri-Trance
Rising Star
Kartikay said:
In Dune, feuding aristocracies and secret societies vie for control of the empire by way of monopoly over a mind-expanding drug called spice melange that has the potential to imbue its user with enhanced physical strength, long life, and precognition amidst other arcane traits including space travel.
This is an interesting point of reference for the plight of our own planet’s delicate ecosystem. What is the spice melange in the world that we know? It must be oil. But the spice melange is a symbol of something deeper, something ancient; older than mankind’s recent obsession with oil. It’s a symbol of the unrelenting hunger in each of us for meaning in the universe, in our lives, and in each other. The spice melange in Dune is both a curse and a gift. Like The Force in Star Wars, like the eternal Tao, it can be used to a variety of ends. Whether that hunger becomes a product of ceaseless consumption or whether it becomes the personal transformation that leads to a global awakening is a choice each of us must make.
I think positive.
69ron
Esteemed member
The naming is just a coincidence. Nothing more.
My understanding is that it’s called spice because it’s extracted from an herb. Some herbs are called spices. DMT has a strong odor, and this is a characteristic of a spice. So, because it’s extracted from an herb, is strong smelling like a spice, why not give it the nick name “spice”. Unlike lab made drugs like MDMA or LSD, people don’t buy lab made DMT. Pretty much 99% of all the DMT in use was purchased originally from herb and spice suppliers and then extracted. So the name is very fitting.
My understanding is that it’s called spice because it’s extracted from an herb. Some herbs are called spices. DMT has a strong odor, and this is a characteristic of a spice. So, because it’s extracted from an herb, is strong smelling like a spice, why not give it the nick name “spice”. Unlike lab made drugs like MDMA or LSD, people don’t buy lab made DMT. Pretty much 99% of all the DMT in use was purchased originally from herb and spice suppliers and then extracted. So the name is very fitting.
nodice
Rising Star
I think that Frank Herbert was patched in to the transcendent just as Carl Sagan was. Frank Herbert was a brilliant mind and I am sure he dabbled. The Story of Dune simply made mention of the use of medicinal plants in a different way calling it Spice that the worms made. It is clear in the mention of all its uses. Some of it sounds alot like what shamans can do with plants. The guild navigated space with it. The Bene Gesserit used it to obtain powers and abilities that can easily seem magical to outsiders. The Christ like figure of Muadib using it to see the future. It is clear that the Story of Dune while also being extremely Political and Ecological, was inspired by the Shamanistic use of plants. There is even the mythic figure of Leto II who had undergone a metamorphosis Still extremely reminiscent of the Heroes Journey of one Reaching a point of Rapture. Leto II in the book lived Thousands of years in which is he experienced all of the things we seem to experience in our journeys. Frank Herbert was well aware of all these things. So it is not that calling it spice here in the forums came from the concept of Dune, but more like the concept of Dune was inspired by our beloved Spice.
ismokecrystals
Rising Star
Worms crawl under the surface of the soil much like the harvested roots of Mimosa Hostilis.
I call it spice in reference to Dune; I heard DMT called 'spice' and thought of Dune.
I call it spice in reference to Dune; I heard DMT called 'spice' and thought of Dune.
We just refer spice to what we want. I thought to spice as Dune's, but I have to say when I've watch it, I thought about Lsd at that time...
Funny how we would do. There is this signature of somebody very much around the forum that push the dune quote "the spice extends life .."
Funny how we would do. There is this signature of somebody very much around the forum that push the dune quote "the spice extends life .."
Most claim that the term, 'spice,' in relation to DMT is short for 'elf spice,' but regardless of where it comes from many make the correlation between the term and "Dune." Perhaps both were intended, as it's doubtful that the terms originators were necessarily ignorant of "Dune" and its use of the term.
SWIM's unfortunately only seen the film, but he correlates the general use of the spice throughout the universe as correlating to vaporized spice and the use of the "water of life" as correlating to ayahuasca. Likely Frank Herbert intended it be a very general psychedelic, rather than a specific one (like substance 'D', or soma, or adrenochrome).
SWIM's unfortunately only seen the film, but he correlates the general use of the spice throughout the universe as correlating to vaporized spice and the use of the "water of life" as correlating to ayahuasca. Likely Frank Herbert intended it be a very general psychedelic, rather than a specific one (like substance 'D', or soma, or adrenochrome).
Dune is by far one of my favorite books/series of all time. I actually could read it all again. Except the later books were a bit freaky and weird and drawn out.
Has anyone read all the way to the end of the last book? It ends on such a bizarre cliff hanger. Like these beings are observing the universe something really strange like this? I think he was touching on some really fascinating themes at the end there but it was obvious he wasn't finished with that last book. He was intending something more. Its too bad he passed away before finishing it. I think his son tried but his writing style is not the same.
I think Dune has many themes that overlap with psychoactive drug use and tribalism/shamanism in general. Of course there are many other themes like political and ecological etc. I think Frank Herbert must have in some way been influenced by psychedelics even from looking at his other books. I think mushrooms were for sure an influence.
Has anyone ever read that book he wrote called the "santaroga barrier"? Its about a town that is all using this weird substance from a fungus that gives them kind of a group mind type deal. I won't say more incase anyone decides to read it. But its definitely themed on this kind of drug that enhances the mind kind of thing again.
Here is some more stuff written about the idea of Herbert using psychedelics for inspiration.
Apparently he mentioned stuff about it to paul staments.
Has anyone read all the way to the end of the last book? It ends on such a bizarre cliff hanger. Like these beings are observing the universe something really strange like this? I think he was touching on some really fascinating themes at the end there but it was obvious he wasn't finished with that last book. He was intending something more. Its too bad he passed away before finishing it. I think his son tried but his writing style is not the same.
I think Dune has many themes that overlap with psychoactive drug use and tribalism/shamanism in general. Of course there are many other themes like political and ecological etc. I think Frank Herbert must have in some way been influenced by psychedelics even from looking at his other books. I think mushrooms were for sure an influence.
Has anyone ever read that book he wrote called the "santaroga barrier"? Its about a town that is all using this weird substance from a fungus that gives them kind of a group mind type deal. I won't say more incase anyone decides to read it. But its definitely themed on this kind of drug that enhances the mind kind of thing again.
Here is some more stuff written about the idea of Herbert using psychedelics for inspiration.
Apparently he mentioned stuff about it to paul staments.
Skizm
Rising Star
Our societies (Modern ones) knowledge of DMT is limited at this point in time. We know that Native Americans and other older cultures used it for ceremonies and that it is a psychedelic drug. Beyond that, none of us REALLY know what DMT is about. We can just recount our experiences and what we think they mean. However, who here can describe any of those experiences with the perfect word? Hell, the Nexus has a pseudo-dictionary containing made-up words that can help us describe the experience.
I'm sure that DMT and other psychedelic drugs will be important, verrrrrry important, in the future of our species. Imagine all those crazy off-planet psychedelic drugs. I get shivers just thinking about them :d . Our future might consist of super-soldiers fighting each other while they are tripping on some insane plant from an alien planet. After all, I've found that the truth is much stranger than fiction.
I'm sure that DMT and other psychedelic drugs will be important, verrrrrry important, in the future of our species. Imagine all those crazy off-planet psychedelic drugs. I get shivers just thinking about them :d . Our future might consist of super-soldiers fighting each other while they are tripping on some insane plant from an alien planet. After all, I've found that the truth is much stranger than fiction.
69ron
Esteemed member
I get the feeling that many in this thread WANT there to be a connection with DMT and some fantasy book like Dune, as if that helps make their DMT experience seem more important. I honestly think DMT has nothing to do with Dune. I don’t at all see the parallels other do. I personally did not like Dune and can’t see why someone would want to associate DMT with Dune. To me that’s almost an insult to the DMT experience.
nodice
Rising Star
How completely insulting is it to say the people talking in this thread are trying to make their experience more important through the book of dune.
Please think out what you write dude. People are just pointing out the similarities and you are shitting all over their ideas.
Dune is extremely complex set of books and to underestimate what Frank Herbert knew or dabbled in is to shut yourself off from reality.
Have you read the Six books? or is your only frame of reference the movie?
I think it is a fun thing to speculate on who has had the experience and who hasn't.
There have been many a time I have been listening to somebody speaking and I suspect they have had the experience and the sure enough they mention they had been on a juasca journey or something like that.
I dont think people are just shooting in the dark trying to make a connection. They see similarities between the story and that of their experience thats all.
Please think out what you write dude. People are just pointing out the similarities and you are shitting all over their ideas.
Dune is extremely complex set of books and to underestimate what Frank Herbert knew or dabbled in is to shut yourself off from reality.
Have you read the Six books? or is your only frame of reference the movie?
I think it is a fun thing to speculate on who has had the experience and who hasn't.
There have been many a time I have been listening to somebody speaking and I suspect they have had the experience and the sure enough they mention they had been on a juasca journey or something like that.
I dont think people are just shooting in the dark trying to make a connection. They see similarities between the story and that of their experience thats all.
Kartikay
Rising Star
69ron, I really don't think it's possible to say that if you've read the books. Let me go grab one and give an example or 50. To clarify though, I have no idea if Frank Herbert was thinking of DMT specifically but he certainly was referencing the psychedelic experience in general. I'll stop by again later tonight and post some quotes. I only have God Emperor of Dune with me(I'm visiting family for the holidays) but there are plenty of references in that one. In fact I think it might have the most references of the whole series.
This forum calling DMT "spice" might have nothing to do with the novels. That was my original question. But I must defend the series, for when Frank Herbert uses the word "spice," he is undeniably referencing a powerful psychedelic.
This forum calling DMT "spice" might have nothing to do with the novels. That was my original question. But I must defend the series, for when Frank Herbert uses the word "spice," he is undeniably referencing a powerful psychedelic.
69ron
Esteemed member
nodice said:
You said that, not me. There's a difference between wanting to see a connection and being delusional. I just don’t see the connection at all.
How does “ELF SPICE” which “SPICE” is short for, have any similarity to the spice in Dune. I just don’t see it. Where are the elves? They are in McKenna’s books, not in Dune. The term ELF comes from the machine elves McKenna talks about. Spice comes from the fact that DMT resembles a spice, because you buy it from herb and spice sellers. Mimosa is a spice that can let you see the elves, so it’s called “ELF SPICE”. There’s no relation to Dune at all. I don’t see it.
Kartikay
Rising Star
Yeah I'm done. I thought this was a drama-free forum. I don't even know why there's such emotion in the thread now. I actually agree with you, 69ron, the term "spice" in the Dune series was probably a reference to LSD or psilocybin. I never even argued against that.
69ron
Esteemed member
The spice melange in Dune is almost like heroin. It's addictive and deadly for addicts to stop using. DMT is not addictive. I think this is insulting to the DMT experience to connect it with such an addictive substance like that.
Am I the only one who sees this?
You guys talk about reading the book, so you should know spice is super addictive. It's an orange gas. DMT is a white powder. The Dune spice smells like cinnamon, hence the name "spice". DMT smell nothing like that.
I'm sorry, I don't see a connection at all.
Am I the only one who sees this?
You guys talk about reading the book, so you should know spice is super addictive. It's an orange gas. DMT is a white powder. The Dune spice smells like cinnamon, hence the name "spice". DMT smell nothing like that.
I'm sorry, I don't see a connection at all.