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Spice = Dune?

Migrated topic.
3) I happen to agree that inevitably psychedelic drugs will play a vital role in our future. The role, I believe, will be more from a religious or spiritual perspective rather than a super-soldier one, but a vital role nonetheless. In the Dune series, the Bene Gesserit use their Spice and power to control societies through religion. This does not seem an unlikely future to me, because the level of spiritual significance that even LSD and psilocybin produce is incredibly more profound than any trip to church, or any experience ever described to me by any man. I've never used DMT, but from what I've read it is even more awesome than LSD and psilocybin. Were a legal religion established in(or forced upon) the world, which used any of these substances as a sacrament, I do not see how any of the current major religions could survive.
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Major religions would definitely fail. However, would the newly established one do any better? While, I only speak for myself here but my experiences have squeegeed the lens through which I view the world. In my view of the world, the major religions do not have a place. Now, if there was an established church whose doctrine was founded on the use of entheogenic substances it would have to be well-intentioned. The beauty of entheogens is that they allow you to examine something at its core. From my perspective, an evil-religion based upon entheogens would fail solely because the supporters understand what it is after that first trip.

If we gave all the constituents of the Judeo-Christian religions massive amounts of entheogens I would predict a sharp decline in membership.


soulfood said:
Well I'm going with elf spice also... but I can't say where the term was first used in that way. To be honest I've only heard of people calling it spice online. To everyone else it just seems to be "DMT"

It's not really popular enough to have a catchy street name, at least where I come from.
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Same, I've never heard my local slang online. Just spice and dimitri
 
ah, the movie is not so good, xtechre. It's one of those movies that just doesn't do the book justice. If you haven't read the series, don't let the movie turn you away from ever picking it up.
 
I saw the dune movie before I read the books. I was young when I first saw it, and I have enjoyed watching it since reading the books. I agree that it is very different and quite limited compared to the books.

There is another dune movie that was originally a mini-series. Dune (TV Mini Series 2000) ⭐ 6.9 | Adventure, Drama, Sci-Fi

They even did Children of Dune as well. It follows the book, but of course the scope is still limited.
 
I was reading this and need to point out why the link is frequently made between Mimosa Hostilis and the Spice Melange. If you take this link to a description to the Spice Melange there are 2 key clues that reveal why it is likely comparable...

en.wikipedia.org

Melange (fictional drug) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

1. Under the heading "description" there is the following reference to its tasting like cinnamon...
In Dune, Lady Jessica notes that her first taste of spice "tasted like cinnamon." "And the smell – bitter cinnamon, unmistakable"
If you look up Cinnamon in the Wikipedia youll find it is a bark which bears a striking resemblance to the Mimosa Hostilis Rootbark that DMT is extracted from...

en.wikipedia.org

Cinnamon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

2. Under the heading "Origin" reference is then made to its colour : when Leto II passes "the leprous blotches of violet sand where a spiceblow had erupted."[12]. Pink/Purple is what very potent Mimosa looks like. It can be reddish brown when its weak bark which is also referenced under "Description"
"mounds of dark reddish brown."

Finally a link to a picture of Mimosa Hostilis in case you doubt the efficacy of my statements. Before you pin me for mentioning someones business name let me just say that its the internet and you're powerless to stop me. Ok. All righty then...


They dont sell this stuff anymore anyway. So there you have it. My 2 cents. Bottoms up people...











 
When I first found this place and started to see that people were calling DMT "Spice" I had a good laugh. :) I'm a big fan of the Dune Series and I had come to the same conclusions myself. The taste, the smell, the color.
The spice extends life. The spice expands consciousness. The spice is vital to space travel. :D

One of the main differences I could come up with (other than the indigo blue eyes) was the addiction aspect. Maybe DMT is addictive, but it doesn't seem to be in the same sense as many other drugs are.

That video is a fake. The new Dune movie is probably going to be very well done, Paramount Pictures is making it. Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson are consultants. I've been anticipating it's release for what seems like FOREVER. And it's probably not going to be released until 2014.
 
so i read dune in middle school before expanding my mind... lol. but i recently reread dune not long after my first experience with dmt and after rereading dune (the first one... the other ones are ok but someone else was right that they get a little weird and drawn out later) the first thing that came to my mind when reading dune was spice = DMT!
there are however some very big differences between spice melange and "elf spice" of course the addiction point has been brought up... but like 69ron was saying dmt wasnt very popular when dune was written. but i remember seeing something (possibly even on this forum 😁 ) that said that when T McKenna was looking into dmt he got a report from a friend saying that it was addictive and could cause capillaries to burst in the eye (maybe part of the blue eye thing solved?) so back when dune was written DMT was not very popular and there very well could have been a misconception that DMT was addictive. so just keep in mind that spice melange and elf spice may not be the same thing. however anyone who has done DMT or any other hallucinogen (only tried shrooms here:d ) should see the immediate connections and similarities between melange and DMT. especially the seeing time and previous lives i mean if that doesnt sound like elf spice i dont know what does!

be safe all and try to stay happy!:d
 
Well this is a blast from the past.

Alas, the new Dune movie fizzled out and died before pre-production began.

Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert are still writing books in the Dune series, however. The newest installment is set to be released in March this year.

Now, after having more years of experience with DMT and in particular with Ayahuasca, I'm more inclined to lean that way. It is the "Spice Melange" after all, melange meaning "mixture". The healing and invigorating properties of the fictional spice, the long life...seems to be more in tune with Ayahuasca than vaporized DMT.

Cinnamon, which the fictional spice is said to smell and taste of, is actually fairly bitter. Dark brown and bitter...much like a reduced Ayahuasca brew. :)

Frank Herbert worked many jobs during his lifetime. He worked as a jungle survival instructor :) He was a big a supporter of the environmentalist movement. There is no doubt he was aware of traditional shamanic uses of mind altering plants.

I've always been a sci-fi geek. But Dune really captured my imagination in a way no other story ever has. I still have yet to come across something as original as "The Spice" from Dune. An awareness drug which an entire economy, even an entire civilization, revolves around. Some could argue that Herbert may have been saying something about fossil fuels. And that he may have. But the whole Spice Melange idea is far more complex than that. I think he incorporated several different ideas into one, which makes it something truly unique.
 
I don't think dune's spice was inspired on DMT either, but I certainly see some parallels.

I thought it was Terrence McKenna who first coined the term "elf spice" as a nickname for DMT.
Or did he get that term from someone else? Who first discovered the psychoactive effects of smoalked or injected DMT?
Was that Tristan Szara? Who knows he or one of the first few people to smoalk/inject dmt after him coined that term for DMT and Terrence borrowed it from them?
 
..enjoyed Metanoia's summary of melange..
yes there's a reference near the end of Chapter House to effective medicines being bitter..

to address the ridiculous (imo) comments by 69ron earlier:

we are told in Dune: the Spice expands consciousness..

there is quite a high chance Frank Herbert was aware of DMT in 1965 (particularly ayahuasca)

Stephen Szára was the first scientist to report the effects of DMT (by injection) in 1956, after it had been found to be a major component of Yopo seed snuffs..

there was interest in yage/ayhuasca in the late 50s....particularly in academic/literary/psychology /beatnik circles..
e.g. William Burroughs was aware of it when he wrote The Naked Lunch in 1959..

the first person to smoke DMT was apparently Nick Sand in 1961..

Terence McKenna was introduced to DMT at Berkley in 1965..

(i should summarize this history again in another thread, but it's all been mentioned, in scatterings in the nexus)
 
nen888 said:
..enjoyed Metanoia's summary of melange..
yes there's a reference near the end of Chapter House to effective medicines being bitter..

to address the ridiculous (imo) comments by 69ron earlier:

we are told in Dune: the Spice expands consciousness..

there is quite a high chance Frank Herbert was aware of DMT in 1965 (particularly ayahuasca)

Stephen Szára was the first scientist to report the effects of DMT (by injection) in 1956, after it had been found to be a major component of Yopo seed snuffs..

there was interest in yage/ayhuasca in the late 50s....particularly in academic/literary/psychology /beatnik circles..
e.g. William Burroughs was aware of it when he wrote The Naked Lunch in 1959..

the first person to smoke DMT was apparently Nick Sand in 1961..

Terence McKenna was introduced to DMT at Berkley in 1965..

(i should summarize this history again in another thread, but it's all been mentioned, in scatterings in the nexus)
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Ah yeah STEPHEN Szára was his name. Now I'm wondering how it is I thought his first name was Tristan :p

What did either the Dune books or games have to say about the method in which Dune's spice is consumed?
 
SKA said:
What did either the Dune books or games have to say about the method in which Dune's spice is consumed?
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In the first Dune novel the main character Muad'Dib takes pellets of it, a more concentrated form, to induce prescient visions. The Fremen include it in all of their foods. They drink Spice coffee and Spice beer :) There is no mention of smoking it throughout all of the Dune novels, at least that I've seen. I've read every Dune book published more than once, but I suppose I still could have missed a smoking reference. Highly unlikely though ;)

Then there's The Water of Life, which is the liquid that a sandworm vomits just before dying of drowning. It is a poison that will kill, but the Reverend Mothers drink it and with their own body's metabolism convert the poison into a safe drinkable form. This conversion becomes a catalyst and all the Water of Life is changed so that an entire community of Fremen can partake of the Spice orgy 😁 It has obvious similarities to an Ayahuasca circle, IMO. Not necessarily big orgies, but when a community drinks The Water of Life they have a "sharing", sort of a psychic phenomenon where they can "feel" each other. Brings them closer together as a people and is an outlet for frustrated or negative energies (again, much like Ayahuasca). The Water of Life has another function as well, beyond the everyday person's intoxication. When a person wishes to become a Reverend Mother, the final test is if that person can "see through" The Water of Life. If they can successfully convert the poison, hence saving themselves from death, they become a true Reverend Mother.

It's a rather complicated and fascinating subject. Definitely worth a read by any who journey with Ayahuasca, or DMT.
 
Metanoia said:
Then there's The Water of Life, which is the liquid that a sandworm vomits just before dying of drowning. It is a poison that will kill, but the Reverend Mothers drink it and with their own body's metabolism convert the poison into a safe drinkable form. This conversion becomes a catalyst and all the Water of Life is changed so that an entire community of Fremen can partake of the Spice orgy 😁 It has obvious similarities to an Ayahuasca circle, IMO.
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I understand that when the Amanita Muscaria is ingested in a traditional ceremony(in parts of Russia) that the shaman would drink it first and thus removes the suffering and negative aspects of the mushroom. Removing the poison so to speak so that the community could enjoy the purified form in the shamans urine.
 
HerosJourney said:
Metanoia said:
Then there's The Water of Life, which is the liquid that a sandworm vomits just before dying of drowning. It is a poison that will kill, but the Reverend Mothers drink it and with their own body's metabolism convert the poison into a safe drinkable form. This conversion becomes a catalyst and all the Water of Life is changed so that an entire community of Fremen can partake of the Spice orgy 😁 It has obvious similarities to an Ayahuasca circle, IMO.
Click to expand...

I understand that when the Amanita Muscaria is ingested in a traditional ceremony(in parts of Russia) that the shaman would drink it first and thus removes the suffering and negative aspects of the mushroom. Removing the poison so to speak so that the community could enjoy the purified form in the shamans urine.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's another comparison you can make! Obviously Herbert was aware of some of these shamanic practices. I do believe The Spice of Dune is multilayered in meaning. He was a brilliant author.
 
I've really been meaning to re-read "Dune" since having a few mystical experiences. I read it maybe 5 year's ago, and it instantly became my favorite book. That being said, I could only appreciate the spiritual aspects of the book on an intellectual level. I think I might get more out of it should I read it again.

Anyway, I always thought spice was kind of supposed to be like oil in a way, though obviously not solely representative of oil as it is more than a material resource.
 
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