Spiritual experiences, you say?

[aSkeptic]

Hi all! :d I am not a user of DMT but I am researching it, or at least its supposed "spiritual" and "otherworldly" effects. I am not pro-use or anti-use. I am not a believer or a nonbeliever. I am simply a skeptic who wishes to learn more about it. I hope to be very active on these forums and ask tons of questions (hope you don't mind). If you would like to discuss your personal experiences and/or beliefs regarding the spiritual aspects of DMT with me, I have created a community page on Facebook. The discussions there will help in writing a book regarding this subject which will be offered for free.
The address is: MODERATOR: LETS NOT MOVE THIS TO AN UNSECURE PLACE LIKE FACEBOOK

 

[۩]

Facebook?

Nah, this is the DMT-Nexus.

 

[Sky Motion]

Why would we talk on facebook, with real names, when you have all the info you could ever need here in the forums and on the wiki?

 

[aSkeptic]

If you say, "DMT lets me communicate with otherworldly beings." And I say, "Is there any evidence of these beings outside of the DMT experience, and if not, is it possible to assume that these beings exist only in the mind and are produced by the intoxication of the mind via DMT, and therefore are an effect of the molecule rather than the spirit?" I don't want to seem argumentative or disrespectful to the site. But if thats not an issue, I don't mind discussing any of that here.

 

[۩]

Peoples' reports are a byproduct of direct experience.
Anything anyone ever says about a DMT trip is a reflection,
it is never ever a depiction.

It is impossible to speculate on hyperspatial notions until you have had the direct experience.
I know that must seem frustrating and hard to understand,
but that is just the way it is.

If you want evidence, here's 60mg of N,N-DMT to vape.
What you observe, filter, and conclude is up to you, not us.

 

[aSkeptic]

Hey Emotional. I'm sure you're right to a degree, and I likely will end up trying it for myself. To start though, I think it might be an error to base my opinion solely on "personal experience." If I have a bad experience, I'll have a bad view. A good experience...then a good view. Not really objective or complete, is it? Am just looking to discuss and hear about all types of experiences. Good, bad, mundane, spiritual...whatever.

 

[DiaMondTongue]

aSkeptic... Everyone who hasn't tried it is a skeptic... Everyone who has understands.

Many of us here are very well educated people with science degrees or better. You can read everything there is in the world on this subject, interview us all face to face and at the end you will still be a skeptic.

Or you could point your research in another direction and in 15 min you would be able to make your mind up for yourself.

We can't define what we have experienced any better for you using words... If you had tried it, I can assure you that you would at least share in our frustration at trying to not sound like lunatics when talking to people who have every right to be skeptical.

 

[Global]

This isn't really about good experiences vs. bad experiences. The experience is transcendent of language and description. Without direct experience it's philosophical masturbation (even if you think you're being "objective"). This site is jammed packed with threads of debates such as the one you're attempting to engage in. I would recommend some browsing through the site to see what's been said already.

 

[DiaMondTongue]

Even a bad experience is profound. There is no such thing as a mundane breakthrough.

 

[Eliyahu]

aSkeptic...

I mean no offense becaues I don't know for sure what your intentions are but personally I would never participate in such an Idea..

I cannot speak for everyone here but..

WE as a DMT community are very sensitive about any "publicity"

The last thing DMT users need is another Author who does not use DMT putting a book out there that will most likely be full of conjuecture and nonsesical theories...

In my opinion anyone who has not tried DMT is not qualified to write about it.

-Pardon my bluntness but this is like a kindergarten student trying to write a thesis on the theory of relativity.

Also-
DMT is a very SACRED thing to me, and is infact a very important part of my belief system.

....by popularizing it you are also fueling the fire to demonize it.. And by doing this I fell like you are doing a great dis-service to sacred DMT.


I'm sorry but I do NOT Concur with your objective.

 

[aSkeptic]

Hi Diamond, and thanks for the response
I'm not a scientist or a doctor or anything like that. I'm just curious. Forgive my inability to have rapport with you because I haven't experienced DMT yet for myself, and I apologize for your frustration. If no one wants to talk about their personal experiences thats alright I mean theres other places and people I can ask. I'm not out to disprove the genuineness of your experiences, or say they weren't real. I'd just like to know whats producing the experiences, if that makes sense? Whether I have the experience or not I should be able to look at the experiences of others and form a set of opinions? You didn't type this post...I can't explain to you what it was like to type it...but you can have an idea based off common sense, right? You don't need to experience everything first hand to research something

 

[aSkeptic]

Eliyahu, thanks for the response I respect your passion for DMT and its effects. And I agree, a person who does not experience it can not talk much less write about the feelings associated with personal experiences with it. Although, anyone can form opinions about the cause of these experiences. No one can say these experiences are fake, whether they try DMT or not. Thats not the objective. The objective is to look at DMT in a rational way..a non-biased way. Not as the way of the user, or the way of the anti-drug mom. In a rational, non-biased way. I'd like to know what causes the experiences you all have. Why you experience something one time, and then something totally different the next time. What decides what experience you have? That is my objective here.

 

[aSkeptic]

I am reading various threads on this site. My post was a simple offer to anyone who wanted to share their opinions and/or experiences with me. Thats it. Either in this thread, in inbox, on facebook, or whatever. If you aren't interested in sharing your experiences or ideas, I totally respect that

 

[The Traveler]

I removed the link to the facebook page due to security reasons.

If you want to discuss this with the DMT-Nexus people I see no reason as to not keep it on this site.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[aSkeptic]

Sounds good Traveler =] We'll see if they care to discuss

 

[Felnik]

This subjest had been discussed
ad nauseum on nexus . There is a wealth of info regarding this coming at it from many angles , keep reading .

It's true that unless you see for yourself you simply cannot grasp the magnitude of what this stuff is about .

I can tell you no matter what you believe it will rattle those beliefs to your core.

If you haven't experienced it you don't know what your talking about its that simple I,m afraid .

 

[Eliyahu]

aSkeptic

You don't understand..
no way to make you understand.

your trying to use scientific methods to explore something mystical.
It's like trying to explain where dreams come from when you have never slept once in your life.

Utimately There is no "scientific" explanations that will satisfy questions like "where do dmt experiences comes from?"

Also let me warn you that there are real "spirits" involved with DMT.
-Spirits that could care less whether you believe in them or not

but some of them may not like what your doing.. You should at least have enough respect to try DMT before attempting to become an authority on it.

Your tampering with something you could not possibly comprehend.

 

[Global]

You didn't type this post...I can't explain to you what it was like to type it...but you can have an idea based off common sense, right? You don't need to experience everything first hand to research something

This is not an appropriate analogy. Some one other than you may not have typed your post, but typing on a computer on a message board is a very common and shared experience, and as such those people can easily relate to each other so far as typing on a computer on a message board is concerned. Being able to relate to a mundane daily task is quite another beast altogether from communicating with entheogenic entities in multidimensional spaces, and your analogy could only be appropriate if this was like any experience which you've ever had (which it isn't) or if it were common sense (which it's not). If you want to research, then by all means, do that. Look around, and do your research. It's been mapped out all throughout these forums. Additionally, you may not have to experience everything first hand to research it, but it will be shallow research. You chose to investigate a topic which will offer little but dissatisfying answers unless you see what it has to say for itself. You are attempting to apply linear thinking to a multidimensional holographic fractal concept.

 

[Guyomech]

ASkeptic: I consider myself a rationalist, and have always tried looking at life from that perspective. And to hear someone say, "you can't describe it in rational terms because its a mystical experience" doesnt go over well with rationalists.

The thing is, though- in this case it's true.

Think of how classical mathematics break down when you try to describe the inside of a black hole. It's like that.

 

[gibran2]

If you say, "DMT lets me communicate with otherworldly beings." And I say, "Is there any evidence of these beings outside of the DMT experience, and if not, is it possible to assume that these beings exist only in the mind and are produced by the intoxication of the mind via DMT, and therefore are an effect of the molecule rather than the spirit?" I don't want to seem argumentative or disrespectful to the site. But if thats not an issue, I don't mind discussing any of that here.

What evidence do you have that your ordinary, everyday experiences are “real”?

What evidence do you have that anything exists outside of your consciousness?