Tregar is now featured on Graham Hancock's website regarding this supposed 'LSI.'
LSI, Ancient LSD, Secret of the Eleusis Kykeon and Vedic SOMA
LSI, Ancient LSD, Secret of the Eleusis Kykeon and Vedic SOMA
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Sprouting morning glory first?
- Thread starter eLeSDee
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Sorry to say, but the highlighted names are using made up nomenclature. These claims also require some analytical evidence to back them up.tregar said:
For me the main question might be whether anyone is going to attempt to get hold of the book he's promoting, since it could do with a peer-review.
A PDF would do, I can offer my expert proof-reading skills by way of exchange
@tregar @ava69 @Matthew Stahl …
A couple of quotes:
(Apols for slight derailment, but this needs to be made clear.)
JungleGhost
Nocturnal Scavenger
Thnk smebdy jus wanted 2 write a book. Ima keep researching.
This pretty much summed it up for me. If you read it thoroughly he openly states offering and selling his concoctions internationally to those interested because "they work." Highly suspicious behavior on their part.
TEK - LSI, Ancient LSD, Secret of the Eleusis Kykeon and Vedic SOMA
TEK - LSI, Ancient LSD, Secret of the Eleusis Kykeon and Vedic SOMA
Right, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find he has a sack of HBWR and a crate of Japanese barley grass he needs to be getting rid of, not to mention whatever else he'd be selling behind that front. As well as, presumably, tartaric acid.
It should also be noted that crotonaldehyde is recognized as being an extremely hazardous substance, btw.
Tregar's recipe is quite simple:
The LSI brew consists of 60ml (2 oz) water with the dissolved LSA extract from the seeds combined with 40mg tartaric acid powder (used in wine making and baking available worldwide) and 3 grams of Japanese Aojiru barley powder, all of which is stirred for 10 minutes, then consumed.
Should be easy to comment for anybody with chemistry background.
The LSI brew consists of 60ml (2 oz) water with the dissolved LSA extract from the seeds combined with 40mg tartaric acid powder (used in wine making and baking available worldwide) and 3 grams of Japanese Aojiru barley powder, all of which is stirred for 10 minutes, then consumed.
Should be easy to comment for anybody with chemistry background.
It's nominally replicable, the issue is with speculative identification of putative active compounds.
Given the flavour reputation of that aojiru stuff, I half-suspect we might be being trolled (again?)…
One more thing, it seems Aojiru is as likely to be made with kale as it is with barley grass, so be sure to double check before experimenting.
One more thing, it seems Aojiru is as likely to be made with kale as it is with barley grass, so be sure to double check before experimenting.
moderator -> remove if too much synthesis talk
The interesting question here for me is - what enzymes can be found in these grasses or malted barley for example that could make the aldehydes to join the amine (NH2) and be further reduced from imine to form the modified amine?
As far as I'm aware the creation of LSD happens via activation of carboxlyic acid group on the lysergic acid which is then joined together with the desired amine - for example diethylamine to make LSD - making the amide bond in the process. Here what should happen is that the aldehyde should join on the amine group already in place. Are there any known enzymes that can do this process?
The interesting question here for me is - what enzymes can be found in these grasses or malted barley for example that could make the aldehydes to join the amine (NH2) and be further reduced from imine to form the modified amine?
As far as I'm aware the creation of LSD happens via activation of carboxlyic acid group on the lysergic acid which is then joined together with the desired amine - for example diethylamine to make LSD - making the amide bond in the process. Here what should happen is that the aldehyde should join on the amine group already in place. Are there any known enzymes that can do this process?
Perhaps too simple to be calling it the "Ancient LSD."
Yeah, the way he also hammered on about the sublingual HPBCD complexed pharmahuasca like it was literal angels' milk or whatever, only for everyone else to find it unreliable and underwhelming at best really set the tone poorly for this latest excursion of his. Although, "latest" might be too generous since it's merely the culmination of about seven years of highly repetitive spamming. Mea culpa a bit on fanning the flames, but in fairness, at least some of the concepts are quite interesting. And I did buy myself a pack of barleygrass powder earlier onTregar never provided any proof for his great molecules, prepared by mixing seeds with whatever, so let's not expect anything.
I would really like to know someday more about him and his group.
We'll see, we'll see…
Yes, aminotransferases of certain varieties do almost exactly this, although it tends to be only the amine group that gets swapped, via imine rearrangement, from an amino acid onto an awaiting aldehyde or (more usually) keto acid, giving the new amin(e/o acid) and the corresponding keto acid from the original amino acid, e.g. the classic being pyruvate + glutamate ⇌ alanine + β-ketoglutarate. And yes, it's an equilibrium.
As far as I'm aware, this type of amine metathesis where an aldehyde effectively gets reductively aminated is rare to nonexistent in biological systems, but I'm more than happy to be proven wrong with a documented example.
There's a specific point amongst tregar's ramblings, repeated over the various forums as well as on Hancock's menagerie of weirdness where I've taken this quote from:
(O)CHCH₂CH(CH₃)₂ which, formally regarded, is kind of backwards (he did literally write it out almost entirely backwards!) so, more typically actually (CH₃)₂CHCH₂CHO
Anyhow, the point is that likening this structure to the side chain of DMT or psilocin is utterly ridiculous, especially from a point of view of pharmacology - the sidechain nitrogen atom of the latter two molecules plays a crucial role in their receptor activity and can't be replaced by a carbon atom in something that looks vaguely similar.
And why's he not likening it to other dimethylaminoethyl-whatevers like hordenine or trichocerine, eh? Maybe because neither of those molecules display an activity as psychedelrcs.
Sorry to drag this up all here, but this Matthew Stahl guy is presenting misinformation in public and has something of a track record to be aware of.
Maybe I should collect these points of information into a separate thread and stop spamming this one in the style of the aforementioned…
Sadly, this only serves to highlight the kind of misguided thinking the poor fellow all too often indulges in. Firstly, he's written the formula out incorrectly: it should betregar said:
(O)CHCH₂CH(CH₃)₂ which, formally regarded, is kind of backwards (he did literally write it out almost entirely backwards!) so, more typically actually (CH₃)₂CHCH₂CHO
Anyhow, the point is that likening this structure to the side chain of DMT or psilocin is utterly ridiculous, especially from a point of view of pharmacology - the sidechain nitrogen atom of the latter two molecules plays a crucial role in their receptor activity and can't be replaced by a carbon atom in something that looks vaguely similar.
And why's he not likening it to other dimethylaminoethyl-whatevers like hordenine or trichocerine, eh? Maybe because neither of those molecules display an activity as psychedelrcs.
Sorry to drag this up all here, but this Matthew Stahl guy is presenting misinformation in public and has something of a track record to be aware of.
Maybe I should collect these points of information into a separate thread and stop spamming this one in the style of the aforementioned…
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